SNCB M4 review: The old school peak train!
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Date: 2024-01-09
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Comments and reviews: 35
-RealConstructor
I only had one experience by train in Belgium and it wasn-t good, but to be fair, it was bad luck. I had the train from Rotterdam to Brussels, but never arrived at Brussels. We had a change of loc in Antwerp after a 15 min delay, I think it was broken because we arrived too late at Antwerp and the train didn-t have much speed after we crossed the border into Belgium. Then we came to a standstill, between Antwerp and Mechelen because of an overhead power cable breach, for more than an hour. We were towed by another train and brought to Mechelen station. There we had to wait for another train that had to come from Brussels. After almost an hour it came, but by that time I couldn-t make it on time for my meeting and I decide to wait for the first train back to The Netherlands instead. The following times I took the car, but that wasn-t a succes either. Brussels may be a car city, but is a nightmare to get out of the city between 15. 30 and 19. 00h. On the away trip I drove just under three hours from my house to Brussels center, the return trip started at 15. 30 and ended at 21. 10h at home. At about 18. 00h I was out of Brussels. It took two and a half bloody hours to get out of Brussels (about 5 km) and get on the highway! Good God! And the ring road of Antwerp is also a disaster, full of traffic jams. Sorry wrong phrase. It is one giant traffic jam. The next time, after my meeting ended, I took a sightseeing tour around the city center, by myself, had an early dinner in Brussels and started my trip out of Brussels by 19. 00 and was home at 21. 20h. Almost the same time as the previous return trip. And it was so much more relaxed. There is something strange and unfamiliar about the Belgium highway system, besides the poor state it-s in. I was on a three lane highway on the outer left lane (I just merged/weaved from the left, when the highway again merges with another two lane highway, and immediately there is the sign of my exit to another highway, but it is on the outer right lane and I have only about a 1km to get from the outer left lane to the outer right lane, while cars are hardly moving in rush hour. It would even be a challenge if cars were moving at normal pace. This is so illogical in my opinion. I made a few Belgian car and truck drivers angry, because I steered my car (used my direction indicator) in the smallest void between cars, but I made it to my exit without accidents. But seeing this video I will try the train again next time. I live close to Schiphol Airport, but I refuse to fly for such a short distance. Haven-t even checked if it would be faster or slower than by train or car.
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I only had one experience by train in Belgium and it wasn-t good, but to be fair, it was bad luck. I had the train from Rotterdam to Brussels, but never arrived at Brussels. We had a change of loc in Antwerp after a 15 min delay, I think it was broken because we arrived too late at Antwerp and the train didn-t have much speed after we crossed the border into Belgium. Then we came to a standstill, between Antwerp and Mechelen because of an overhead power cable breach, for more than an hour. We were towed by another train and brought to Mechelen station. There we had to wait for another train that had to come from Brussels. After almost an hour it came, but by that time I couldn-t make it on time for my meeting and I decide to wait for the first train back to The Netherlands instead. The following times I took the car, but that wasn-t a succes either. Brussels may be a car city, but is a nightmare to get out of the city between 15. 30 and 19. 00h. On the away trip I drove just under three hours from my house to Brussels center, the return trip started at 15. 30 and ended at 21. 10h at home. At about 18. 00h I was out of Brussels. It took two and a half bloody hours to get out of Brussels (about 5 km) and get on the highway! Good God! And the ring road of Antwerp is also a disaster, full of traffic jams. Sorry wrong phrase. It is one giant traffic jam. The next time, after my meeting ended, I took a sightseeing tour around the city center, by myself, had an early dinner in Brussels and started my trip out of Brussels by 19. 00 and was home at 21. 20h. Almost the same time as the previous return trip. And it was so much more relaxed. There is something strange and unfamiliar about the Belgium highway system, besides the poor state it-s in. I was on a three lane highway on the outer left lane (I just merged/weaved from the left, when the highway again merges with another two lane highway, and immediately there is the sign of my exit to another highway, but it is on the outer right lane and I have only about a 1km to get from the outer left lane to the outer right lane, while cars are hardly moving in rush hour. It would even be a challenge if cars were moving at normal pace. This is so illogical in my opinion. I made a few Belgian car and truck drivers angry, because I steered my car (used my direction indicator) in the smallest void between cars, but I made it to my exit without accidents. But seeing this video I will try the train again next time. I live close to Schiphol Airport, but I refuse to fly for such a short distance. Haven-t even checked if it would be faster or slower than by train or car.
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-JeremiCzarnecki
At 8: 06 you can catch a faint glimpse of the Pullman Brussels Midi, one of the few remaining Pullman hotels actually at a train station - Pullman Hotels were originally created by the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits, a company founded by Georges Nagelmackers, a Belgian who brought the American concept of the Pullman car (a sleeper) to Europe.
CIWL had a virtual monopoly on sleepers - and pretty much all long-distance international trains - until Mitropa was founded in the 20th century, not only in Europe. It operated the famous Orient Express, as well as the first Trans-Siberian railway, extending their reach as far as Beijing in Asia and Cairo in Egypt, where they had hotels as well. The current operator of the Pullman Hotels brand, Accor, acquired CIWL in the late 20th century.
Interestingly, none of the original CIWL hotels remain Pullmans or even operated by Accor - many were destroyed in wars and fires, and a few were even torn down as outdated, the Pera Palace in Istanbul is a rare surviving example (though operated by Jumeirah. The Pullman in Brussels is actually located in an all-new annex to the Brussel-Zuid station, so it had little to do with Nagelmackers' original designs on dominating the world by train, but it still is a very convenient property for anybody arriving to Brussels on and/or departing it by train, or planning on exploring Belgium by train (highly recommended)
And if you are wondering why SNCB trains are seldom late, just take a look at the timetable - they run an absolutely staggering number of trains on each and every line, the headways are close to a metro or tram operation. Locals use their Intercities to commute much like people take the bus in countries with less railways per sqm (which is pretty much every other country but the Vatican.
Should any train be late, the cascading effect would revebrate through the system for hours - which I witnessed sometimes during short trips to Belgium, when a disruption to the schedule in the evening was due to some incident someplace totally else on the network in the morning. To witness why SNCB still needs to operate this old material - and they would probably run a garden shed if they had one - just stand for a quarter on one of the platforms at Brussel Centraal to see that a platform rarely sits empty for longer than a minute.
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At 8: 06 you can catch a faint glimpse of the Pullman Brussels Midi, one of the few remaining Pullman hotels actually at a train station - Pullman Hotels were originally created by the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits, a company founded by Georges Nagelmackers, a Belgian who brought the American concept of the Pullman car (a sleeper) to Europe.
CIWL had a virtual monopoly on sleepers - and pretty much all long-distance international trains - until Mitropa was founded in the 20th century, not only in Europe. It operated the famous Orient Express, as well as the first Trans-Siberian railway, extending their reach as far as Beijing in Asia and Cairo in Egypt, where they had hotels as well. The current operator of the Pullman Hotels brand, Accor, acquired CIWL in the late 20th century.
Interestingly, none of the original CIWL hotels remain Pullmans or even operated by Accor - many were destroyed in wars and fires, and a few were even torn down as outdated, the Pera Palace in Istanbul is a rare surviving example (though operated by Jumeirah. The Pullman in Brussels is actually located in an all-new annex to the Brussel-Zuid station, so it had little to do with Nagelmackers' original designs on dominating the world by train, but it still is a very convenient property for anybody arriving to Brussels on and/or departing it by train, or planning on exploring Belgium by train (highly recommended)
And if you are wondering why SNCB trains are seldom late, just take a look at the timetable - they run an absolutely staggering number of trains on each and every line, the headways are close to a metro or tram operation. Locals use their Intercities to commute much like people take the bus in countries with less railways per sqm (which is pretty much every other country but the Vatican.
Should any train be late, the cascading effect would revebrate through the system for hours - which I witnessed sometimes during short trips to Belgium, when a disruption to the schedule in the evening was due to some incident someplace totally else on the network in the morning. To witness why SNCB still needs to operate this old material - and they would probably run a garden shed if they had one - just stand for a quarter on one of the platforms at Brussel Centraal to see that a platform rarely sits empty for longer than a minute.
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-tjoeker680
about the doors:
many operators in Europe were experimenting with moving the doors to the middle of the coach. This avoided bunching on the platforms. (coupling two coaches with the doors at the far ends means you put 2 doors right next to eachother) The downside however was that you lost more space for seats in the coach with a set up like this.
I believe this middle door set up was not chosen for 1st class as the doors didn't require the same throughput. (you can also see these doors only allow 1 passenger at a time as opposed to 2 for 2nd class) Doing this they can have a higher capacity on 1st class coaches.
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about the doors:
many operators in Europe were experimenting with moving the doors to the middle of the coach. This avoided bunching on the platforms. (coupling two coaches with the doors at the far ends means you put 2 doors right next to eachother) The downside however was that you lost more space for seats in the coach with a set up like this.
I believe this middle door set up was not chosen for 1st class as the doors didn't require the same throughput. (you can also see these doors only allow 1 passenger at a time as opposed to 2 for 2nd class) Doing this they can have a higher capacity on 1st class coaches.
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-osasunaitor
7: 28 Funny you say that! I've travelled a lot in Belgian trains, and the only time I took a Desiro (from Gent to Brugge) it was probably the worst experience of all.
The train was overcrowded as a single EMU is shorter than the usual trains covering that route; there was only 1 WC onboard which had the floor all wet, the electric door obstructed and the toilet clogged D:
Also, because the carriages aren't physically separated, the smell covered the whole train.
A quite nasty trip. Even the old school AC-less trains seemed preferable in comparison!
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7: 28 Funny you say that! I've travelled a lot in Belgian trains, and the only time I took a Desiro (from Gent to Brugge) it was probably the worst experience of all.
The train was overcrowded as a single EMU is shorter than the usual trains covering that route; there was only 1 WC onboard which had the floor all wet, the electric door obstructed and the toilet clogged D:
Also, because the carriages aren't physically separated, the smell covered the whole train.
A quite nasty trip. Even the old school AC-less trains seemed preferable in comparison!
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-sergioagostinho72
There are few things i can agree with you, the train schedules in Belgium, let me say, all the transports in general are suitable, i find them friendly and always help you if you need it, it is a small country, but good to live, i say that with experience. Next time try please the polish railways, i believe there is a lot of good things to learn there, if possible take the train from the airport Chopin to the Wschodnia station, you'll surely go thru Zachodnia and Central station too, it must be amazing.
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There are few things i can agree with you, the train schedules in Belgium, let me say, all the transports in general are suitable, i find them friendly and always help you if you need it, it is a small country, but good to live, i say that with experience. Next time try please the polish railways, i believe there is a lot of good things to learn there, if possible take the train from the airport Chopin to the Wschodnia station, you'll surely go thru Zachodnia and Central station too, it must be amazing.
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-iemand9593
I really like your videos but saying BXL doesn't have stunning stations? BXL Central is designed by renowed architect Victor Horta and is (due to the complexity of the tunnel itself) an engineering marvel. Not to mention a prime example of late Art Deco architecture, with beautifull remaining details. Also the stations of Schaarbeek and Schuman look great.
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I really like your videos but saying BXL doesn't have stunning stations? BXL Central is designed by renowed architect Victor Horta and is (due to the complexity of the tunnel itself) an engineering marvel. Not to mention a prime example of late Art Deco architecture, with beautifull remaining details. Also the stations of Schaarbeek and Schuman look great.
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-albawutz
The same soap powder dispensers are also in use in the CFL double deckers from Bombardier, so German made. As the CFL has no own standard for that kind of equipment, I suppose that it-s the same onboard the DB Dostos, but I don-t remember. Unfortunately, I have been experiencing always empty dispensers on the CFL Dostos for the last months.
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The same soap powder dispensers are also in use in the CFL double deckers from Bombardier, so German made. As the CFL has no own standard for that kind of equipment, I suppose that it-s the same onboard the DB Dostos, but I don-t remember. Unfortunately, I have been experiencing always empty dispensers on the CFL Dostos for the last months.
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-Bjorn-Del
The Doors of the first class are separated because in second class you need to entry en exit the train qs fast as possible, when in first class There are not such a crouds and it needs to be confortable for the traveler & they expect longer first class rides - I live in Belgium btw - the best second class trains are the i6, I10 & i11.
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The Doors of the first class are separated because in second class you need to entry en exit the train qs fast as possible, when in first class There are not such a crouds and it needs to be confortable for the traveler & they expect longer first class rides - I live in Belgium btw - the best second class trains are the i6, I10 & i11.
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-sanderrobenek
As a SNCB/NMBS train conductor i like them more than M5-s sad that they are gone soon. But M7 is much better and more luxury like an airplane: . As you can see it was a IC train but at Peak hour, they drive with M6 aswell on this line. The I11 at Namur came from Luxemburg. Good review and you-re always welcome onboard! -
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As a SNCB/NMBS train conductor i like them more than M5-s sad that they are gone soon. But M7 is much better and more luxury like an airplane: . As you can see it was a IC train but at Peak hour, they drive with M6 aswell on this line. The I11 at Namur came from Luxemburg. Good review and you-re always welcome onboard! -
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-Skinksalladen
Belgium really has some excellent railway staff, both on trains, in ticket sales offices, and station managers. Coming from Sweden (where you rarely, if ever interact with any staff, either on trains or in stations) and living in the Netherlands - where they have the typical dutch attitude.
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Belgium really has some excellent railway staff, both on trains, in ticket sales offices, and station managers. Coming from Sweden (where you rarely, if ever interact with any staff, either on trains or in stations) and living in the Netherlands - where they have the typical dutch attitude.
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-kevinavindra6732
I think you must try the economy class trains in Indonesia. It have 90 degrees seats without reclining and layout 3 - 2 on an intercity service with more than 12 hours. Noted that Indonesian railways is only 1. 067 mm. But the price is the cheapest with government subsidiary.
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I think you must try the economy class trains in Indonesia. It have 90 degrees seats without reclining and layout 3 - 2 on an intercity service with more than 12 hours. Noted that Indonesian railways is only 1. 067 mm. But the price is the cheapest with government subsidiary.
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-conormcshane1656
Deadly to think 1st class in that train is now 2nd/coach/economy class on most intercity trains nowadays.
Also amazing that such old-school trains like that are still operating in Western Europe, it looks more like like what you might expect to see in Eastern Europe.
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Deadly to think 1st class in that train is now 2nd/coach/economy class on most intercity trains nowadays.
Also amazing that such old-school trains like that are still operating in Western Europe, it looks more like like what you might expect to see in Eastern Europe.
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-youri2451
Coming from the Netherlands myself, I have to say that I personally love the stations in Brussels more than in my own country. While in NL these are all refurbished, modern and quite boring, in Brussels they still have some sort of old-school train vibe.
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Coming from the Netherlands myself, I have to say that I personally love the stations in Brussels more than in my own country. While in NL these are all refurbished, modern and quite boring, in Brussels they still have some sort of old-school train vibe.
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-davidnielson9139
I remember these old coaches from when they were relatively new, back in the late 70s; I found them just as uncomfortable back then. And even back then, I loved the Antwerpen Centraal station; even though it hadn't been refurbished yet.
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I remember these old coaches from when they were relatively new, back in the late 70s; I found them just as uncomfortable back then. And even back then, I loved the Antwerpen Centraal station; even though it hadn't been refurbished yet.
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-lucallegra
Actually, Brussels Centraal is quite a good station! May not look good from the outsider, but i loved it inside. Also, Leuven is good!
Might have used this service to go to Charleroi. Still remember the heat inside. Time to retire them!
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Actually, Brussels Centraal is quite a good station! May not look good from the outsider, but i loved it inside. Also, Leuven is good!
Might have used this service to go to Charleroi. Still remember the heat inside. Time to retire them!
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-anonomia5535
The Desiro trains are actually the most reliable trains currently. There were some startup problems, but those have been resolved now. They aren't too bad, I'd say, but are used too often on long journeys, for which they aren't made.
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The Desiro trains are actually the most reliable trains currently. There were some startup problems, but those have been resolved now. They aren't too bad, I'd say, but are used too often on long journeys, for which they aren't made.
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-antejl7925
If you take the Luxembourg - Liege train from Luxembourg ville to Troisvierges the last village in Lu, you can ride the SCNB Eurofirmas compartment carriages for free! They used to be orange in the 80s now refurbushed silver.
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If you take the Luxembourg - Liege train from Luxembourg ville to Troisvierges the last village in Lu, you can ride the SCNB Eurofirmas compartment carriages for free! They used to be orange in the 80s now refurbushed silver.
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-yanminho9686
when you can travel 70km in 1h and you realise that it cost you nearly an hour to travel 10km for school
ARGH being a student isnt a really good thing.
btw 5: 28 a typo, should be -there- instead of -trhere-
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when you can travel 70km in 1h and you realise that it cost you nearly an hour to travel 10km for school
ARGH being a student isnt a really good thing.
btw 5: 28 a typo, should be -there- instead of -trhere-
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-VolorousMP
If you want to see really uncomfortable seats, try polish EN57 with original plastick benches. Spine demage and sliding in standard price. Sometimes it can burn your shoes with heater located just under the seat. :D
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If you want to see really uncomfortable seats, try polish EN57 with original plastick benches. Spine demage and sliding in standard price. Sometimes it can burn your shoes with heater located just under the seat. :D
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-bobmmann3917
The graffiti is awful, saw the same on some trains in Netherlands a few years back. Reminds me of the bad old days on the NYC subway. If NY could clean that up surely they could fix the problem in Europe.
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The graffiti is awful, saw the same on some trains in Netherlands a few years back. Reminds me of the bad old days on the NYC subway. If NY could clean that up surely they could fix the problem in Europe.
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-Gab-ej8yo
hey man i like the way how you reported on every trip and it inspire me to create similar content in Indonesia. hope we can support each other as a content creater.
greet from Indonesia
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hey man i like the way how you reported on every trip and it inspire me to create similar content in Indonesia. hope we can support each other as a content creater.
greet from Indonesia
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-KDR_FLT
The M4 used to go to Lille (only possible with HLE12 loco) and Luxembourg (not possible anymore because of the 25kv overhead line now) There are already a lot of carriages out of service: (
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The M4 used to go to Lille (only possible with HLE12 loco) and Luxembourg (not possible anymore because of the 25kv overhead line now) There are already a lot of carriages out of service: (
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-Je_Existe
It is sad to see the M4 and the HLE 21/27 going to scrap because they look alright in my opinion even though the M7 is good too i prefer the M4 because it has a 80s feeling which i love
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It is sad to see the M4 and the HLE 21/27 going to scrap because they look alright in my opinion even though the M7 is good too i prefer the M4 because it has a 80s feeling which i love
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-JR-qs9ok
Just a suggestion; wash your hands after touching toilet flush button and door knobs. Not everyone washes their hands transferring shit everywhere they go, like a leaky gut
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Just a suggestion; wash your hands after touching toilet flush button and door knobs. Not everyone washes their hands transferring shit everywhere they go, like a leaky gut
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-Z20900
Nice video! Those coaches are so incredibly loud. They're charming to travel on, but with an open window it's nearly impossible to have a conversation in my experience haha!
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Nice video! Those coaches are so incredibly loud. They're charming to travel on, but with an open window it's nearly impossible to have a conversation in my experience haha!
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-karmesindryade
Actually I like these hard and straight seats. They are much better for my back than the pseudo-ergonomic modern ones which are absolutely horrible when reclined.
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Actually I like these hard and straight seats. They are much better for my back than the pseudo-ergonomic modern ones which are absolutely horrible when reclined.
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-holygooff
Ah yes, another train from the old stock. This is the one with the weird mirrors. It's noisy, dirty and hot in summer. It has style though and the seats are great.
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Ah yes, another train from the old stock. This is the one with the weird mirrors. It's noisy, dirty and hot in summer. It has style though and the seats are great.
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-barbaralcharles
In the immortal words of Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Belgium was -invented so that Britain and Germany could have a place so sort out their differences. -
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In the immortal words of Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, Belgium was -invented so that Britain and Germany could have a place so sort out their differences. -
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-tekosalverda3021
You might have mentioned the 3-2 configuration in the 2rd class.
Possibly, this was done in order to distinct from the 1st class 2-2 configuration!
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You might have mentioned the 3-2 configuration in the 2rd class.
Possibly, this was done in order to distinct from the 1st class 2-2 configuration!
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-Brettski_1234
Great staff makes the trip better and more enjoyable. We have great conductors on V/Line, my local and the regional train operator in Victoria, Australia
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Great staff makes the trip better and more enjoyable. We have great conductors on V/Line, my local and the regional train operator in Victoria, Australia
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-yvesc. 3181
I usually take the IC-train from Ghent to Hasselt, composed with these train cars. Although it's not comfortable in 2nd class but I still like them -.
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I usually take the IC-train from Ghent to Hasselt, composed with these train cars. Although it's not comfortable in 2nd class but I still like them -.
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-stevecooksley
They really need to do something about the graffiti problem (Belgium is not alone on this) - it reflects really badly on a country to visitors.
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They really need to do something about the graffiti problem (Belgium is not alone on this) - it reflects really badly on a country to visitors.
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-benjaminfinck2477
In 1st class, it's really comfortable. I take these kind of train almost every day. I love it. So charming and relaxing in 1st class.
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In 1st class, it's really comfortable. I take these kind of train almost every day. I love it. So charming and relaxing in 1st class.
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-thearnausian6940
It's going to be sad to see the HLE21s completely dissapear from the rail network. The HLE 21 and 27 are my favourite locomotives.
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It's going to be sad to see the HLE21s completely dissapear from the rail network. The HLE 21 and 27 are my favourite locomotives.
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-sergioagostinho72
This train is a real shit i am sorry to say that, there are so many old trains in Belgium, it is already time to be gone.
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This train is a real shit i am sorry to say that, there are so many old trains in Belgium, it is already time to be gone.
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