JJ Thomson Cathode Ray Tube Experiment: the Discovery of the Electron
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I learned electron flow in HS Physics so I know both directions of flow and use my right or left hand depending on context.
Date: 2022-12-27
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Comments and reviews: 19
Bitskit
J. J. Thompson didn't discover the electron. It was discovered by George Johnstone Stoney, in his paper On The Physical Units of Nature. As the name of the paper implies, he was developing a new system of measurement similar to Plank units. His derivation was based on Faraday's law of electrolysis, wherein the quantity of substance deposited at an electrode was directly proportional to the quantity of the applied charge and equivalent weight. Stoney devised a method for calculating the equivalent weight in the paper by using the ideal gas law to calculate the combining power; which is a concept equivalent to valency that existed before the electron/proton model of the atom. If you know how much of a substance is deposited at an electrode and the amount of charge needed to deposit that much substance, you can quantize the charge; defining it as the amount of charge needed to break 1 molecular bond. Stoney's original name for this unit was the electrine, which his later renamed to the electron.
Thompson's paper, Cathode Rays, made no mention of electrons, whatsoever. He was merely testing what cathode rays were made of. Based off of the measured properties, he surmised that they were made of subatomic corpuscles that became negatively charged at the cathode. His calculations also determined that the size of these corpuscles would be much smaller than what we would nowadays call an electron. The idea of these corpuscles being charge carrying particles came from George Francis Fitzgerald, and Thompson originally mocked the idea. Going so far as to toast at a dinner party, to the electron, may it never be of use to anybody. Thompson's original idea about corpuscles was further validated by his student, Ernest Rutherford, who discovered neutrally charged particles in the gold foil experiment. His own son, J. P Thompson, also created the electron diffraction experiment that proved that electric forces didn't need to be carried by particles.
This is just yet another case in science history where, like Shrodinger, the mainstream lies about someone's beliefs or twists their words.
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J. J. Thompson didn't discover the electron. It was discovered by George Johnstone Stoney, in his paper On The Physical Units of Nature. As the name of the paper implies, he was developing a new system of measurement similar to Plank units. His derivation was based on Faraday's law of electrolysis, wherein the quantity of substance deposited at an electrode was directly proportional to the quantity of the applied charge and equivalent weight. Stoney devised a method for calculating the equivalent weight in the paper by using the ideal gas law to calculate the combining power; which is a concept equivalent to valency that existed before the electron/proton model of the atom. If you know how much of a substance is deposited at an electrode and the amount of charge needed to deposit that much substance, you can quantize the charge; defining it as the amount of charge needed to break 1 molecular bond. Stoney's original name for this unit was the electrine, which his later renamed to the electron.
Thompson's paper, Cathode Rays, made no mention of electrons, whatsoever. He was merely testing what cathode rays were made of. Based off of the measured properties, he surmised that they were made of subatomic corpuscles that became negatively charged at the cathode. His calculations also determined that the size of these corpuscles would be much smaller than what we would nowadays call an electron. The idea of these corpuscles being charge carrying particles came from George Francis Fitzgerald, and Thompson originally mocked the idea. Going so far as to toast at a dinner party, to the electron, may it never be of use to anybody. Thompson's original idea about corpuscles was further validated by his student, Ernest Rutherford, who discovered neutrally charged particles in the gold foil experiment. His own son, J. P Thompson, also created the electron diffraction experiment that proved that electric forces didn't need to be carried by particles.
This is just yet another case in science history where, like Shrodinger, the mainstream lies about someone's beliefs or twists their words.
reply
Daemon
Point number 4 for JJ Thompson, supposedly disproven, is an interesting statement to make. Though, I think comparing it to a plum pudding is simplistic materialistic reasoning. Electrons are in everything and all matter falls into one of two groups, conductors and insulators and electrons can move from one object to another. Electrons also want to go to ground and the charge that these mobile electrons produce by vacating or populating matter acts at a distance and obeys an inverse square law. Why do electrons want to go to ground? Why is the lower atmosphere more electronegative to the upper atmosphere's electropositive? Field aligned currents are already recognized in the Auroras at the poles. Follow those field aligned currents along the magnetic field lines to their natural conclusion then they continue in some manner all around the sphere that is Earth. and into the earth all the way to its core. Further away from earth we have the field aligned Van Allan belts. The electromagnetic field around earth is pretty much constantly bombarded by charged solar particles, whose velocity and density variations produce geomagnetic disturbances and electrifies earth storms. The estimated electrostatic potential of the Ionosphere/earth on a clear day is 300-400, 000 volts. Back in the day another phrase they would use instead of volts was 'pressure'. Since gravity does squat in protecting earth's atmosphere from the forces of these charged solar particles, I think it is safe to assume it has nothing to do with the presence of the atmosphere on earth in the first place as the standard model claims. And we see that atmospheric pressure plays a part in earth's electric circuit. That 300-400, 000 volts of electric pressure is why it takes water a higher temperature to boil into vapor than in a vacuum. When I think of this electrostatic pressure pushing down, I wonder if LeSage may have been part right with his push gravity model. Rather than the mundanes he proposed, consider the electron.
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Point number 4 for JJ Thompson, supposedly disproven, is an interesting statement to make. Though, I think comparing it to a plum pudding is simplistic materialistic reasoning. Electrons are in everything and all matter falls into one of two groups, conductors and insulators and electrons can move from one object to another. Electrons also want to go to ground and the charge that these mobile electrons produce by vacating or populating matter acts at a distance and obeys an inverse square law. Why do electrons want to go to ground? Why is the lower atmosphere more electronegative to the upper atmosphere's electropositive? Field aligned currents are already recognized in the Auroras at the poles. Follow those field aligned currents along the magnetic field lines to their natural conclusion then they continue in some manner all around the sphere that is Earth. and into the earth all the way to its core. Further away from earth we have the field aligned Van Allan belts. The electromagnetic field around earth is pretty much constantly bombarded by charged solar particles, whose velocity and density variations produce geomagnetic disturbances and electrifies earth storms. The estimated electrostatic potential of the Ionosphere/earth on a clear day is 300-400, 000 volts. Back in the day another phrase they would use instead of volts was 'pressure'. Since gravity does squat in protecting earth's atmosphere from the forces of these charged solar particles, I think it is safe to assume it has nothing to do with the presence of the atmosphere on earth in the first place as the standard model claims. And we see that atmospheric pressure plays a part in earth's electric circuit. That 300-400, 000 volts of electric pressure is why it takes water a higher temperature to boil into vapor than in a vacuum. When I think of this electrostatic pressure pushing down, I wonder if LeSage may have been part right with his push gravity model. Rather than the mundanes he proposed, consider the electron.
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D.
CORP' SU CLE, Really? It was derived from biology, the KAWR-PUHS-UHL, a cell in blood. You youngsters crack me up. Pronunciation has gone to hell on the internet. However, we oldtimers love your research and reporting. Particularly the fact that 8 of his students got Noble prizes. Did any of Einstein's students get Noble prizes? Don't know? Of course Noble prizes have now been disgraced by the revelation that apparently Jeffery Epstein was engaged by Bill Gates to buy one for him and Bill apparently thought he could do it and paid him large $ dollars. What's the connection between the Noble committee and Epstein? More evidence of the absolute corruption of science, academia, medicine, business and Wall Street.
You young scientists are going to have to straighten this out.
reply
CORP' SU CLE, Really? It was derived from biology, the KAWR-PUHS-UHL, a cell in blood. You youngsters crack me up. Pronunciation has gone to hell on the internet. However, we oldtimers love your research and reporting. Particularly the fact that 8 of his students got Noble prizes. Did any of Einstein's students get Noble prizes? Don't know? Of course Noble prizes have now been disgraced by the revelation that apparently Jeffery Epstein was engaged by Bill Gates to buy one for him and Bill apparently thought he could do it and paid him large $ dollars. What's the connection between the Noble committee and Epstein? More evidence of the absolute corruption of science, academia, medicine, business and Wall Street.
You young scientists are going to have to straighten this out.
reply
John
In '62 I found a bound copy of Millikan's paper on determining the charge of an electron. The oil drop experiment, at a used book store near our rental house near the University of Washington. Unfortunately it dissapeared during a series of moves as my posessions diminished to an easily movable bare minimum. It wasn't autographed or anything to make it valuable, just a copy of the paper about a phenomena I had read about in most basic physics or chemistry texts. There were lots of small used book stores and used furniture stores, places to eat. Before the chain fast food places and huge rental cost increses caused the mom and pop small businesses to close.
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In '62 I found a bound copy of Millikan's paper on determining the charge of an electron. The oil drop experiment, at a used book store near our rental house near the University of Washington. Unfortunately it dissapeared during a series of moves as my posessions diminished to an easily movable bare minimum. It wasn't autographed or anything to make it valuable, just a copy of the paper about a phenomena I had read about in most basic physics or chemistry texts. There were lots of small used book stores and used furniture stores, places to eat. Before the chain fast food places and huge rental cost increses caused the mom and pop small businesses to close.
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eleneasy. com
COnventional current is not used today because of the original error where they believed the current was made of positive charges. The reality is that current is generated by charges that can be either positive or negative, depending on the kind of conductor. The conventional current has been chosen to simplify the calculations when facing charges of both kind (positive and negative) both producing a current. Examples: changes in a saline solution, charges in a doped semiconductor.
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COnventional current is not used today because of the original error where they believed the current was made of positive charges. The reality is that current is generated by charges that can be either positive or negative, depending on the kind of conductor. The conventional current has been chosen to simplify the calculations when facing charges of both kind (positive and negative) both producing a current. Examples: changes in a saline solution, charges in a doped semiconductor.
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Tobias
6: 30. this is not quite correct. without a magnetic field the ratio e/m cannot be measured. without a magnetic field you can only measure the speed of the corpuscles (+ derive the geometry of the path of the beam - a parabola. You need a magnetic field in order to measure e/m. so at 6: 30 the picture and the formula for measuring e/m = a/E is a bit misleading.
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6: 30. this is not quite correct. without a magnetic field the ratio e/m cannot be measured. without a magnetic field you can only measure the speed of the corpuscles (+ derive the geometry of the path of the beam - a parabola. You need a magnetic field in order to measure e/m. so at 6: 30 the picture and the formula for measuring e/m = a/E is a bit misleading.
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YK
In my mind, atom and electron remains a plum pudding to me. Electrons are held to an atom by difference of electric charge and not by gravity and inertia.
Just because we can explain orbiting planets in the solar system doesnt give us the right to legislate that electrons are like planets to an atom.
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In my mind, atom and electron remains a plum pudding to me. Electrons are held to an atom by difference of electric charge and not by gravity and inertia.
Just because we can explain orbiting planets in the solar system doesnt give us the right to legislate that electrons are like planets to an atom.
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bv
I love these vids, but still can't resist the temptation to be pedantic about an insignificant matter. haha Corpuscle (what he called electrons) is pronounced something like corpusle. It comes from the Latin word 'corpus' meaning body, and the -cle ending is diminutive. So corpuscle means small body.
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I love these vids, but still can't resist the temptation to be pedantic about an insignificant matter. haha Corpuscle (what he called electrons) is pronounced something like corpusle. It comes from the Latin word 'corpus' meaning body, and the -cle ending is diminutive. So corpuscle means small body.
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warrenbach
I love your content. Could you possibly slow the style down and also not put your face so close? It's like having a convo w/ someone who keeps pushing their face 6 to 12 inches w/in yours. Perhaps just back up a little bit and tell the great stories a tad slower. Just my opinion.
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I love your content. Could you possibly slow the style down and also not put your face so close? It's like having a convo w/ someone who keeps pushing their face 6 to 12 inches w/in yours. Perhaps just back up a little bit and tell the great stories a tad slower. Just my opinion.
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Alexander
If you think about it, basing our electronics on charging circuits with a positive voltage turns out to be the most effective system. You can pump electrons out of a conductor without nearly as high a risk of arcing as you would get by pumping electrons into a conductor.
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If you think about it, basing our electronics on charging circuits with a positive voltage turns out to be the most effective system. You can pump electrons out of a conductor without nearly as high a risk of arcing as you would get by pumping electrons into a conductor.
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petrosros
Lancashire is a country in England, home to the second most blunt and stubborn people in the world. It is conjoined to the country of Yorkshire home to the world champions of stubborn and blunt, they call it honesty and Yorkshire frankness, down South we call them rude.
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Lancashire is a country in England, home to the second most blunt and stubborn people in the world. It is conjoined to the country of Yorkshire home to the world champions of stubborn and blunt, they call it honesty and Yorkshire frankness, down South we call them rude.
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David
Perhaps I've missed it or haven't seen it, yet, but if you haven't covered it I think a good follow-up would be the electrical experiments and the expeditions of Kristian Birkeland, as it was only a few years after J. J. Thomson's cathode ray experiments.
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Perhaps I've missed it or haven't seen it, yet, but if you haven't covered it I think a good follow-up would be the electrical experiments and the expeditions of Kristian Birkeland, as it was only a few years after J. J. Thomson's cathode ray experiments.
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Mike
I wrote you about the negative to positive direction and the error still used in academics today. You referred me to (I'm assuming) this video, but it just leaves us hanging, like, too bad too late. What is the real story of the propagation of the lie?
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I wrote you about the negative to positive direction and the error still used in academics today. You referred me to (I'm assuming) this video, but it just leaves us hanging, like, too bad too late. What is the real story of the propagation of the lie?
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Patrick
Just compliments I enjoy listening in. I have spent 50 years in the industrial world and have heard all the names, you so kindly mention. Never understood the stories behind the names. Thank you for your research and sharing with us.
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Just compliments I enjoy listening in. I have spent 50 years in the industrial world and have heard all the names, you so kindly mention. Never understood the stories behind the names. Thank you for your research and sharing with us.
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laskartrece
Kathy please find cheap material for solar cells. for cheap solar panels. It must be a simple technology for it. Thank you. (I know is almost out of the blue) but, should science help humanity or just corporations?
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Kathy please find cheap material for solar cells. for cheap solar panels. It must be a simple technology for it. Thank you. (I know is almost out of the blue) but, should science help humanity or just corporations?
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Jim
I learned some physics in High School before I got really heavily involved in electronics. I still think of current flowing from negative to positive and have to do some double think when I'm talking to people about it.
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I learned some physics in High School before I got really heavily involved in electronics. I still think of current flowing from negative to positive and have to do some double think when I'm talking to people about it.
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YK
Page 6: 40
Just because e/m ratio of electron are the same from different cathode elements doesnt make them the same composition in the electron. We need to ask why e/m ratio are the same first prior to publishing.
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Page 6: 40
Just because e/m ratio of electron are the same from different cathode elements doesnt make them the same composition in the electron. We need to ask why e/m ratio are the same first prior to publishing.
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Arne
Thomson received his Nobel prize for discovering that cathode rays were in fact particles called electrons whilst his son received his Nobel prize for his discovery that electrons could also be treated as waves.
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Thomson received his Nobel prize for discovering that cathode rays were in fact particles called electrons whilst his son received his Nobel prize for his discovery that electrons could also be treated as waves.
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education
Not so concerned about the typo with the speed of light, however I am mortified by your description of plum pudding. You are doing it wrong. Heat it up and pour brandy custard over it. Delicious.
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Not so concerned about the typo with the speed of light, however I am mortified by your description of plum pudding. You are doing it wrong. Heat it up and pour brandy custard over it. Delicious.
reply
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