The Fiery Debate Over Joaquin Phoenix And Heath Ledger As Joker
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I am so baffled by some fans who were so arrogantly dismissed Joaquin's Joker even before trying to give him a minute of chance. I mean, on what aspect did Heath's Joker was better than Joaquin's?
The suit and the make up? Joaquin's Joker was more accurate to comic book and was the reminisce of Romero's Joker outfit. People were buzzing because Joaquin's Joker didn't has scar on his mouth. Well, the scar idea only came with Heath's Joker and not even accurate to comic books.
The uniqueness? Well, apart from chaos, what did Heath's Joker offered. Absolutely nothing. While Joaquin's Joker could dance which was a nod to Jack Nicholson's. During the ending scene with the therapist, we could see the Joker menacing stare towards the therapist in Joaquin's eyes even without putting the make up, which no other Joker could do.
The laughs? Well, I think almost everybody agree that Joaquin absolutely way better than Heath. Joaquin had pathological laugh, sinister laugh, haunting deep tone laugh (aftermath the Murray killing) and genuine laugh compared to Heath's one dimensioanal laugh, and oh. that fake and forcedfully sound laugh during the mobsters group therapy session.
Brutality? Compare all Joaquin's Joker killing scenes with all of Heath's. That Randall and Murray killing scenes make all Heath's Joker killings especially that cheap pencil trick kill which came out straight from fantasy land looked really childish and cartoonish.
Agent of chaos? Well, Joaquin's Joker achieved what Heath's Joker was trying to do to Gotham all the time without even trying.
Award winning? Heath won Oscar as supporting actor and Joaquin won as the leading actor. Some said Joaquin played Arthur and not Joker but guess what? He played Joker for the final 20 minutes, which was as much as Heath's Joker screen time in Dark Knight. Heath's Joker needed Batman to stay relevant. Joaquin's Joker stands on his own.
So in what aspect did Heath's Joker was so untouchable and can't be matched by Joaquin's like some said? Is it because of the sentimental feeling that he died because of playing Joker role? If so, I rest my case then.
Date: 2020-07-14
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Comments and reviews: 9
goliath6711
Im going to attempt to sober everyone up here by bringing up some blinding obvious points that should pretty much put an end to this debate (even though I know it wont):
Lets start with the fact that the Joker as a character is literally older than every single person who has thrown themselves into this debate, including me, everyone whos watched this video, everyone who will ever watch this video, everyone who made this video, almost, if not every comic book artist and writer that is currently working in DC comics, and at least half of the actors that have ever played the Joker, and Im including voice actors in that mix too. So anyone out there with the idea that the role of the Joker should be put to rest with Heath should recognize just how ridiculous of a statement that is.
Speaking of Heath Ledger, how much of this extends to opinions about his roles in, say, A Knights Tale, Monsters Ball, The Patriot, 10 Things I Hate About You, and, of course, Brokeback Mountain? And those were just the ones I remembered off the top of my head.
So as impressive as his turn as the Joker was, lets not forget that it was still just his turn. Hes a name on a list of Joker actors that did not start with and will not end with him. I believe he even said something like that himself during a behind the scenes interview for The Dark Knight.
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Im going to attempt to sober everyone up here by bringing up some blinding obvious points that should pretty much put an end to this debate (even though I know it wont):
Lets start with the fact that the Joker as a character is literally older than every single person who has thrown themselves into this debate, including me, everyone whos watched this video, everyone who will ever watch this video, everyone who made this video, almost, if not every comic book artist and writer that is currently working in DC comics, and at least half of the actors that have ever played the Joker, and Im including voice actors in that mix too. So anyone out there with the idea that the role of the Joker should be put to rest with Heath should recognize just how ridiculous of a statement that is.
Speaking of Heath Ledger, how much of this extends to opinions about his roles in, say, A Knights Tale, Monsters Ball, The Patriot, 10 Things I Hate About You, and, of course, Brokeback Mountain? And those were just the ones I remembered off the top of my head.
So as impressive as his turn as the Joker was, lets not forget that it was still just his turn. Hes a name on a list of Joker actors that did not start with and will not end with him. I believe he even said something like that himself during a behind the scenes interview for The Dark Knight.
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Michael
How the Jokers would talk
Heath-Never start with the big critics. the big fanboys get all scary, cant know the ne
ALREADY GIVEN OSCAR
Heath-. see
Phoenix-Well, you wanted me. And here I am
Heath-I wanted to see what you do. And you didnt disappoint. You dont have a Batman, then. I heard someone is gunna take your place. even to a guy like me thats COLD
Phoenix-is my story good?
Heath-See these big fanboys want you gone so they can go back to the way things were. but Ive seen whats goin on. Youve changed things. forever.
Phoenix-Then why do people love me?
Heath-hehehahah i I dont know why people love you? What would they do without you then? Go back watching the same Marvel plots? No NO! No your sumthin like me. YOUR DIFFERENT. new.
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How the Jokers would talk
Heath-Never start with the big critics. the big fanboys get all scary, cant know the ne
ALREADY GIVEN OSCAR
Heath-. see
Phoenix-Well, you wanted me. And here I am
Heath-I wanted to see what you do. And you didnt disappoint. You dont have a Batman, then. I heard someone is gunna take your place. even to a guy like me thats COLD
Phoenix-is my story good?
Heath-See these big fanboys want you gone so they can go back to the way things were. but Ive seen whats goin on. Youve changed things. forever.
Phoenix-Then why do people love me?
Heath-hehehahah i I dont know why people love you? What would they do without you then? Go back watching the same Marvel plots? No NO! No your sumthin like me. YOUR DIFFERENT. new.
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Cary
John Wayne Casey who killed teenager boys in the 1990s and had a working job as a clown for kids parties and other places he did it for he killed a lot of boys and put their died bodies in his basement and other places and was a married man and a father and died in jail and it was made to TV movie and was in the newspapers and TV news and was the biggest news that ever happened to boys he got to work for him and a lot of people in the news and history books turned into killers of all kinds and the joker movie is more like something that happened in real life with out falling in into liquid that turned him into the joker can not happen in real life and being in the army can not make him joker to it has to be make up and his mind and his life
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John Wayne Casey who killed teenager boys in the 1990s and had a working job as a clown for kids parties and other places he did it for he killed a lot of boys and put their died bodies in his basement and other places and was a married man and a father and died in jail and it was made to TV movie and was in the newspapers and TV news and was the biggest news that ever happened to boys he got to work for him and a lot of people in the news and history books turned into killers of all kinds and the joker movie is more like something that happened in real life with out falling in into liquid that turned him into the joker can not happen in real life and being in the army can not make him joker to it has to be make up and his mind and his life
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Star
There's no debate to be had. Apples and Oranges. We're talking about two completely different characters here. Heath's Joker was the unknown, unstoppable force - He's Gotham's reaction to the Status-quo changing Batman.
Joaquin's Joker is what I can only presume is an under appreciated man reaching breaking point through a midlife crises. He's reacting to Gotham. He pushes back and finally starts to get noticed.
A Psychotic Terrorist trying to prove a point and an Average Joe finding his way to stardom through crime.
In fact all Jokers are completely different therefore are not better. Now when it comes to Batman, they're more or less the same character despite different interpretations. That's comparing Oranges and Oranges.
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There's no debate to be had. Apples and Oranges. We're talking about two completely different characters here. Heath's Joker was the unknown, unstoppable force - He's Gotham's reaction to the Status-quo changing Batman.
Joaquin's Joker is what I can only presume is an under appreciated man reaching breaking point through a midlife crises. He's reacting to Gotham. He pushes back and finally starts to get noticed.
A Psychotic Terrorist trying to prove a point and an Average Joe finding his way to stardom through crime.
In fact all Jokers are completely different therefore are not better. Now when it comes to Batman, they're more or less the same character despite different interpretations. That's comparing Oranges and Oranges.
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Bean
What I liked about Joker is it didn't try to take away from Ledger/Nolan's interpretation. It even seems like a possible prequel to that story - it's left so you can interpret it how you like. Joaquin's Joker might not be -the- joker. It could have inspired another guy. It could be a lot of things. I enjoyed it tremendously! Phoenix has such sincerity to his roles, even when he plays a twisted character he reminds us that they are human. I think Joker resonates a lot with society today because we're told to smile, to get on with things, not really acknowledge how we truly feel about things. A lot about how we live today feels fake.
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What I liked about Joker is it didn't try to take away from Ledger/Nolan's interpretation. It even seems like a possible prequel to that story - it's left so you can interpret it how you like. Joaquin's Joker might not be -the- joker. It could have inspired another guy. It could be a lot of things. I enjoyed it tremendously! Phoenix has such sincerity to his roles, even when he plays a twisted character he reminds us that they are human. I think Joker resonates a lot with society today because we're told to smile, to get on with things, not really acknowledge how we truly feel about things. A lot about how we live today feels fake.
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PsychoEmbassador
Why are we even making these comparisons? Heath Ledger himself said it was pointless because his Joker was entirely different from Jack Nicholson's. If given the opporunity to play his own Joker in a Batman '89 remake, he would have turned it down because he wouldn't have been suited well for what Tim Burton had tried to do. It comes down to what you want the most out of the character. Jack's Joker was the most comedic, Heath's was the most psychotic, and now Joaquin's giving us the first Joker you could connect with. They're all brilliant at what they were written for.
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Why are we even making these comparisons? Heath Ledger himself said it was pointless because his Joker was entirely different from Jack Nicholson's. If given the opporunity to play his own Joker in a Batman '89 remake, he would have turned it down because he wouldn't have been suited well for what Tim Burton had tried to do. It comes down to what you want the most out of the character. Jack's Joker was the most comedic, Heath's was the most psychotic, and now Joaquin's giving us the first Joker you could connect with. They're all brilliant at what they were written for.
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Parth
Joker character itself is the best among all. Joker profile is far superior than any DC or MARVEL CHARACTERS.
Definitely when actors are chosen for the role, they have to maintain the dignity of the character as well as the earlier best version played.
Heath is still the best. But Leto killed the characters dignity as well as DC fans expectation. Phoenix will definitely kick off Leto's work and it seems he might give justice to what Heath had given to the character.
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Joker character itself is the best among all. Joker profile is far superior than any DC or MARVEL CHARACTERS.
Definitely when actors are chosen for the role, they have to maintain the dignity of the character as well as the earlier best version played.
Heath is still the best. But Leto killed the characters dignity as well as DC fans expectation. Phoenix will definitely kick off Leto's work and it seems he might give justice to what Heath had given to the character.
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Tamajeet
Still heath ledger is the best joker. Let me suggest you something that will you help you to decide. See the their performances consecutively with the videos being mute. You will find out that it doesn't look like that heath was acting even. Heath played the joker character so so amazingly as if It looks that it is his own character. But i am not ignoring phionex's joker either. Phionex's joker is also legendary. But c'mon heath is the legend of legends among villains.
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Still heath ledger is the best joker. Let me suggest you something that will you help you to decide. See the their performances consecutively with the videos being mute. You will find out that it doesn't look like that heath was acting even. Heath played the joker character so so amazingly as if It looks that it is his own character. But i am not ignoring phionex's joker either. Phionex's joker is also legendary. But c'mon heath is the legend of legends among villains.
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Gurpreet
The main difference between ledger's joker and pheonix is that ledger did his own makeup in movie(because he didn't wanted to have professional makeup as it wouldn't be able to setup his character as a lunatic, as professional makeup would be very clean type, ledger was a bit psychotic in this sense thats why he was so much into his character. This Seems main problem with pheonix as his makeup is seeming so clean and managed while a psychopath wouldn't have it.
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The main difference between ledger's joker and pheonix is that ledger did his own makeup in movie(because he didn't wanted to have professional makeup as it wouldn't be able to setup his character as a lunatic, as professional makeup would be very clean type, ledger was a bit psychotic in this sense thats why he was so much into his character. This Seems main problem with pheonix as his makeup is seeming so clean and managed while a psychopath wouldn't have it.
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