The Most Disciplined Man in History? - Titus Manlius Torquatus
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Date: 2023-08-10
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Comments and reviews: 19
Marcus
Wonder if Titus Manlius senior had made a secret pact with the soldiers Geminus was a part of. This was why the Romans were told not to engage anyone without orders. Geminus and Titus junior stumble across one another. Geminus knows they are secret allies and decides to make a little joke asking if that's all they brought to fight. Titus junior. not in the know about the secret alliance. comes back at Geminus with an insult too severe for him to brush off since his men heard it or Geminus might have thought Titus junior SHOULD know about the alliance and the insult made him think the alliance was a ruse? Either way he has to answer the insult and makes a challenge. maybe still thinking Titus junior will back down if the deal is still in place. Maybe he goes into battle sort of unsure and shocked that the fight is happening and still not believing Titus junior will actually be fighting to kill. So he dies. Titus senior hears what his son did and knows the secret alliance with whoever Geminus was with is in danger. sends them a message and says I will kill my own son as recompense. Would be nice to have details on the following battles to be able to make more outlandish guesses and suppositions hah!
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Wonder if Titus Manlius senior had made a secret pact with the soldiers Geminus was a part of. This was why the Romans were told not to engage anyone without orders. Geminus and Titus junior stumble across one another. Geminus knows they are secret allies and decides to make a little joke asking if that's all they brought to fight. Titus junior. not in the know about the secret alliance. comes back at Geminus with an insult too severe for him to brush off since his men heard it or Geminus might have thought Titus junior SHOULD know about the alliance and the insult made him think the alliance was a ruse? Either way he has to answer the insult and makes a challenge. maybe still thinking Titus junior will back down if the deal is still in place. Maybe he goes into battle sort of unsure and shocked that the fight is happening and still not believing Titus junior will actually be fighting to kill. So he dies. Titus senior hears what his son did and knows the secret alliance with whoever Geminus was with is in danger. sends them a message and says I will kill my own son as recompense. Would be nice to have details on the following battles to be able to make more outlandish guesses and suppositions hah!
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Jauhl1
It's pretty funny the trademark for the Manlii Torqatus became this strictness and harshness in the name of the Republic. His most famous descendant Titus Manlius Torqatus Consul 235 and 224, Censor 231, Dictator 208 BCE held a famous speech after Cannae, when Hannibal had released a number of POW under oath to negotiate ransom for the Roman survivors of the battle. Claiming they had fought valiantly, more so then those who had broken lose from the encirclement. Before Torqatus spoke the senate had simply discussed how a ransom could be paid. Torqatus however spoke and wasn't impressed. that the slaves of the Carthaginians spoke about valor sickened him when 50000 Romans had died for the Republic. The men that had broken out wouldn't dare to call themselves valiant yet they had never yielded and returned to Rome in arms. His speech moved the senate to vote against paying ransom even though many of them had captive relatives.
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It's pretty funny the trademark for the Manlii Torqatus became this strictness and harshness in the name of the Republic. His most famous descendant Titus Manlius Torqatus Consul 235 and 224, Censor 231, Dictator 208 BCE held a famous speech after Cannae, when Hannibal had released a number of POW under oath to negotiate ransom for the Roman survivors of the battle. Claiming they had fought valiantly, more so then those who had broken lose from the encirclement. Before Torqatus spoke the senate had simply discussed how a ransom could be paid. Torqatus however spoke and wasn't impressed. that the slaves of the Carthaginians spoke about valor sickened him when 50000 Romans had died for the Republic. The men that had broken out wouldn't dare to call themselves valiant yet they had never yielded and returned to Rome in arms. His speech moved the senate to vote against paying ransom even though many of them had captive relatives.
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MegaTechGuy
What an idiot killing his bloodline for muh republic, I think the real reason he did not want his son outshining him like so many power hungry men they cant even share power even with there own family, many kings and Empeors, dukes have fallen to this flaw. No one has created a word for this kind of person or act but I've come up with the word Piser a derivative of miser (which ironically is a Latin word)
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What an idiot killing his bloodline for muh republic, I think the real reason he did not want his son outshining him like so many power hungry men they cant even share power even with there own family, many kings and Empeors, dukes have fallen to this flaw. No one has created a word for this kind of person or act but I've come up with the word Piser a derivative of miser (which ironically is a Latin word)
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Gerard
If True Roman Republicans like Manlius, Decimus Mus and Brutus still lived around the time of those traitors Marius, Caesar and Pompey, they'd all have been gutted like dogs before they could lift a sword against the Republic.
Indeed Caesar did get gutted in the end by a Brutus.
Even in Caesar's time there were true Republicans like Cato, Cicero and Brutus who defended the Republic to the last breath.
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If True Roman Republicans like Manlius, Decimus Mus and Brutus still lived around the time of those traitors Marius, Caesar and Pompey, they'd all have been gutted like dogs before they could lift a sword against the Republic.
Indeed Caesar did get gutted in the end by a Brutus.
Even in Caesar's time there were true Republicans like Cato, Cicero and Brutus who defended the Republic to the last breath.
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Pride
Was it a break from military discipline? They are scouting and what if they were attacked? Also he was the commander of the small detachment of calvary so his orders to kill the other scouting party of the enemy doesnt seem like him breaking rank i dont know dog sounds like a made up story to inspire romans but seems like a act of hypocrisy
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Was it a break from military discipline? They are scouting and what if they were attacked? Also he was the commander of the small detachment of calvary so his orders to kill the other scouting party of the enemy doesnt seem like him breaking rank i dont know dog sounds like a made up story to inspire romans but seems like a act of hypocrisy
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JHAYKHAY25
I'd personally really like any less well known era in Roman history, this was fantastic, a breath of fresh air. A for instance? You hear about Scipio Africanus and the Scipio involved in the disagreements with Julius Caesar but you rarely hear about the Scipio's before Africanus.
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I'd personally really like any less well known era in Roman history, this was fantastic, a breath of fresh air. A for instance? You hear about Scipio Africanus and the Scipio involved in the disagreements with Julius Caesar but you rarely hear about the Scipio's before Africanus.
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Mad
Most ordinary men would not be able to do this to their own child, but that is what separates great leader from most of people. Rome would probably never made it trough the early stages and the history would have been totally different if it was not for extraordinary men like Manlius.
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Most ordinary men would not be able to do this to their own child, but that is what separates great leader from most of people. Rome would probably never made it trough the early stages and the history would have been totally different if it was not for extraordinary men like Manlius.
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Nicholas
I really enjoyed the biography and would love to hear more of them. I also love your history of the Legions. I've read all about them and you have details I haven't yet seen in my books. I'd love a reading list if you have suggestions!
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I really enjoyed the biography and would love to hear more of them. I also love your history of the Legions. I've read all about them and you have details I haven't yet seen in my books. I'd love a reading list if you have suggestions!
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FlashPoint
Wow. Is that the price of greatness? Maybe flog your son for the insubordination? Would they have been victorious in the campaign if he didn't execute him? What are the stakes? Duty and Honour V. S. love and humanity. Tough call.
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Wow. Is that the price of greatness? Maybe flog your son for the insubordination? Would they have been victorious in the campaign if he didn't execute him? What are the stakes? Duty and Honour V. S. love and humanity. Tough call.
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Dustin
Exile would been enough jeez even king of France exiled his jester after his slapped kings butt and said sorry I thought it was your wife my lord. But I suppose maybe its better to be feared than loved at times.
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Exile would been enough jeez even king of France exiled his jester after his slapped kings butt and said sorry I thought it was your wife my lord. But I suppose maybe its better to be feared than loved at times.
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SaltyVids
I'd love to hear a video about the gauls or the barbarians. It easy to get the impression they were mindless brutes but they obviously weren't to organize such armies. The berserker always fascinated me.
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I'd love to hear a video about the gauls or the barbarians. It easy to get the impression they were mindless brutes but they obviously weren't to organize such armies. The berserker always fascinated me.
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Flavius
He was challenged! You dmb mQron. What did you expect, to him to flee and show cowardice? Poor son, I literally dropped a tear for him. Biggest enemies of warriors are always their abusive fathers.
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He was challenged! You dmb mQron. What did you expect, to him to flee and show cowardice? Poor son, I literally dropped a tear for him. Biggest enemies of warriors are always their abusive fathers.
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Prophein
In an alternate reality where Rome never fell and stands to this day in place of the USA, those the most interesting man in the world commercials would've been about Titus Manlius.
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In an alternate reality where Rome never fell and stands to this day in place of the USA, those the most interesting man in the world commercials would've been about Titus Manlius.
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Gungnir
A man who cannot make good men and women with his good wife is not anywhere close to admirable. You are hunter, warrior/guard and father. All three of equal importance for males.
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A man who cannot make good men and women with his good wife is not anywhere close to admirable. You are hunter, warrior/guard and father. All three of equal importance for males.
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Nathan
So he was a violent sociopath who excused his evil actions by claiming to be following roman laws which are (seemingly) more important than human decency or respect.
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So he was a violent sociopath who excused his evil actions by claiming to be following roman laws which are (seemingly) more important than human decency or respect.
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BadSwaps
A few real bad ass names stand out though out history. Tycho Brahe, Gaius Julius Caesar among just a couple. But Titus Manlius Torquatus may be the most bad ass.
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A few real bad ass names stand out though out history. Tycho Brahe, Gaius Julius Caesar among just a couple. But Titus Manlius Torquatus may be the most bad ass.
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education
Imagine going back to your tent after watching your commander kill his own son for disobeying orders. Aint no way youre falling asleep on guard ever again.
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Imagine going back to your tent after watching your commander kill his own son for disobeying orders. Aint no way youre falling asleep on guard ever again.
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Live
Wasn't Publius Decius Mus the consul that performed a Devotio in battle, thus turning the tide and earning his place among the legendary Roman combatants?
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Wasn't Publius Decius Mus the consul that performed a Devotio in battle, thus turning the tide and earning his place among the legendary Roman combatants?
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GureillaInvestor
why did he not just lash him? thats a pretty severe punishment
it would have sent the message. Especially if he did the lashing himself.
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why did he not just lash him? thats a pretty severe punishment
it would have sent the message. Especially if he did the lashing himself.
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