Ethical dilemma: Would you lie? - Sarah Stroud
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Date: 2022-06-02
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Comments and reviews: 9
Kamizushi
My answer to the deep philosophical question is utilitarianism. It's not always right to tell the truth.
With that said, in this specific situation, the premise is a false dilemma. I would just give a head-sup to Emerson that Carey tends not to be not very punctual. People tend to handle problems better when they knew beforehand those problems were coming and still made a conscious choice to move forward.
I notice this pattern a lot with thought experiments contrasting utilitarianism with other schools of thought. Very often, the situation presented is a false dilemma. Or the utilitarian position being is very shortsighted when considering the potential outcomes of a choice. Like again in this situation, healthy happy relationships are build on trust, trust that's unlikely to be fostered by tiny acts of manipulation like that.
In practice, pretty much everyone who consider themselves utilitarians are rule utilitarians. Rule utilitarianism is when you mostly live your life by following various rules which you think/hope will tend maximize utility. And that's the only practical way to be utilitarian really. You can't possibly have a complete cost benefit analysis whenever you make an action. that would be too costly. So you've got to choose general rules of thumbs that you can then follow most of the time without having to think too much about it. I'm almost always gonna be truthful because I think truthfulness tends to maximize utility. Once in a blue moon, I will have a situation where a lie is necessary, but that's probably not gonna be when you ask me if that dress looks nice on you or something silly like that.
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My answer to the deep philosophical question is utilitarianism. It's not always right to tell the truth.
With that said, in this specific situation, the premise is a false dilemma. I would just give a head-sup to Emerson that Carey tends not to be not very punctual. People tend to handle problems better when they knew beforehand those problems were coming and still made a conscious choice to move forward.
I notice this pattern a lot with thought experiments contrasting utilitarianism with other schools of thought. Very often, the situation presented is a false dilemma. Or the utilitarian position being is very shortsighted when considering the potential outcomes of a choice. Like again in this situation, healthy happy relationships are build on trust, trust that's unlikely to be fostered by tiny acts of manipulation like that.
In practice, pretty much everyone who consider themselves utilitarians are rule utilitarians. Rule utilitarianism is when you mostly live your life by following various rules which you think/hope will tend maximize utility. And that's the only practical way to be utilitarian really. You can't possibly have a complete cost benefit analysis whenever you make an action. that would be too costly. So you've got to choose general rules of thumbs that you can then follow most of the time without having to think too much about it. I'm almost always gonna be truthful because I think truthfulness tends to maximize utility. Once in a blue moon, I will have a situation where a lie is necessary, but that's probably not gonna be when you ask me if that dress looks nice on you or something silly like that.
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Ridire
Carey is your friend, so be honest and tell her the right time but playfully tease her about not being late at the same time. That way, you won't have to lie, her feelings won't be hurt, and Carey's autonomy won't be compromised. With your teasing lingering in the back of her mind, she will make every attempt to arrive on time, or as close to on time as she is capable of. So she can rub her on time-ness in your face later.
On their date, the other person's relationship to the matchmaker or mutual acquaintance is a traditional ice-breaker topic of conversation. If she chooses too, Carey can bring up your time teasing, since it will be fresh on her mind being your most recent interaction with her before the date, and the quirk can be exposed organically. You haven't gotten in the way, Emerson hasn't gotten a false impression about Carey's punctuality problems, and Carey hasn't been mistreated. You give them every advantage and set the stage; the actors decide what happens next.
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Carey is your friend, so be honest and tell her the right time but playfully tease her about not being late at the same time. That way, you won't have to lie, her feelings won't be hurt, and Carey's autonomy won't be compromised. With your teasing lingering in the back of her mind, she will make every attempt to arrive on time, or as close to on time as she is capable of. So she can rub her on time-ness in your face later.
On their date, the other person's relationship to the matchmaker or mutual acquaintance is a traditional ice-breaker topic of conversation. If she chooses too, Carey can bring up your time teasing, since it will be fresh on her mind being your most recent interaction with her before the date, and the quirk can be exposed organically. You haven't gotten in the way, Emerson hasn't gotten a false impression about Carey's punctuality problems, and Carey hasn't been mistreated. You give them every advantage and set the stage; the actors decide what happens next.
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Athanasios
I have come to terms that white lies are really important. I usually say exactly what is in my mind in order to be genuine no matter if someone disagrees with me or not but in many cases being silent, thus not saying exactly what you want to say, or even telling a lie could result in greater overall happiness, which is of course subjective a lot of the times and different in each case.
One major example I have personally in my every day life is lying to my father about my studies. I tend to procrastinate a lot, even though I complete my tasks in the end, and my father is always stressed with my progress, so when he asks me if I studied I always answer positively no matter if I did. In the end of the day he is happy that I am studying, there is no stress or arguments or nagging, and I do what I have to do in my own pace and fulfill what I said I have already done in the past.
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I have come to terms that white lies are really important. I usually say exactly what is in my mind in order to be genuine no matter if someone disagrees with me or not but in many cases being silent, thus not saying exactly what you want to say, or even telling a lie could result in greater overall happiness, which is of course subjective a lot of the times and different in each case.
One major example I have personally in my every day life is lying to my father about my studies. I tend to procrastinate a lot, even though I complete my tasks in the end, and my father is always stressed with my progress, so when he asks me if I studied I always answer positively no matter if I did. In the end of the day he is happy that I am studying, there is no stress or arguments or nagging, and I do what I have to do in my own pace and fulfill what I said I have already done in the past.
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Morgan
If you lie, the responsibility of being on time is pinpointed onto you instead of Carey. You have now chosen to claim responsibility on whether or not Carey is on time. Carey now has a window of opportunity to blame you (assuming she's on time and gets sick of waiting) which can potentially lead to more problems.
I think not lying could train Carey to realize that their actions have consequences, being late can have consequences (assuming they're late and you don't lie.
I also think we should ask ourselves if we want to create an expectation of Carey for Emerson by letting Emerson know that Carey is always late. Keep in mind that telling Emerson that Carey is always late could paint them in a way Carey doesn't want to be represented. So many things to think about I could go on forever. Just some food for thought.
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If you lie, the responsibility of being on time is pinpointed onto you instead of Carey. You have now chosen to claim responsibility on whether or not Carey is on time. Carey now has a window of opportunity to blame you (assuming she's on time and gets sick of waiting) which can potentially lead to more problems.
I think not lying could train Carey to realize that their actions have consequences, being late can have consequences (assuming they're late and you don't lie.
I also think we should ask ourselves if we want to create an expectation of Carey for Emerson by letting Emerson know that Carey is always late. Keep in mind that telling Emerson that Carey is always late could paint them in a way Carey doesn't want to be represented. So many things to think about I could go on forever. Just some food for thought.
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Victoria
i don t like lying, not because it is good or bad. i don t like lying because it s hard for people to know my true self when i am truthful, let alone when i m lying. i seek to be sincere, which usually brings honesty on its back. but a person can be sincere and dishonest, those white lies and righteous lies are the proof of that. but i only lie when i found no better choice, sometimes i am even honest against my needs. that s because lying (like violence) seem to be always the easiest solution and the habit of lying tends to bring more harm than good (to the individual and to the community) because it sows distrust. which means lying is lazy. we (in my opinion) should always try to be honest even if it is harder, and only lying when it is the only tool that we can think off to achieve our goals
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i don t like lying, not because it is good or bad. i don t like lying because it s hard for people to know my true self when i am truthful, let alone when i m lying. i seek to be sincere, which usually brings honesty on its back. but a person can be sincere and dishonest, those white lies and righteous lies are the proof of that. but i only lie when i found no better choice, sometimes i am even honest against my needs. that s because lying (like violence) seem to be always the easiest solution and the habit of lying tends to bring more harm than good (to the individual and to the community) because it sows distrust. which means lying is lazy. we (in my opinion) should always try to be honest even if it is harder, and only lying when it is the only tool that we can think off to achieve our goals
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Belias
Tell the truth, or at least, don't lie.
Tell Carey you know they have a propensity for being late, and they _need to be there_ at six. Do not tell Carey _dinner_ is at six. Tell Emmerson you told Carey to be there at six, and that Carey has a tendency to be perpetually late.
Kant is right. You should not lie to a murderer that is at your door seeking someone hiding in your house. That doesn't mean you have to answer their questions. But more importantly, if there is a murderer at your door, it is your duty to confront such irrationality and dispel it. It is your duty to provide reasonable safety to those under your roof and in your community. If it is the authority at your door seeking murder, it is your duty to oppose authority. And to do this you need arms, the great equalizers.
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Tell the truth, or at least, don't lie.
Tell Carey you know they have a propensity for being late, and they _need to be there_ at six. Do not tell Carey _dinner_ is at six. Tell Emmerson you told Carey to be there at six, and that Carey has a tendency to be perpetually late.
Kant is right. You should not lie to a murderer that is at your door seeking someone hiding in your house. That doesn't mean you have to answer their questions. But more importantly, if there is a murderer at your door, it is your duty to confront such irrationality and dispel it. It is your duty to provide reasonable safety to those under your roof and in your community. If it is the authority at your door seeking murder, it is your duty to oppose authority. And to do this you need arms, the great equalizers.
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Custos
Or how about the less fellasophical response and a more psychological answer, ya know, why put up with someone with such little respect for your time, especially after voicing your preference (which goes for either person? Either cope and accept them as they are if they desire not to change or leave. Besides, in the only intelligent words written by Shakespeare there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Also, love the accusation and oversimplification of paternalism. Nah, I just want to meet on time, which is mutually beneficial.
Here's a superior query: is manipulation always bad?
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Or how about the less fellasophical response and a more psychological answer, ya know, why put up with someone with such little respect for your time, especially after voicing your preference (which goes for either person? Either cope and accept them as they are if they desire not to change or leave. Besides, in the only intelligent words written by Shakespeare there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Also, love the accusation and oversimplification of paternalism. Nah, I just want to meet on time, which is mutually beneficial.
Here's a superior query: is manipulation always bad?
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Bryan
My first reaction was to lie, but upon further thought this has a potential to cause a lot of issues. What if Carey actually is on time because she is interested? Then she is upset because I lied and her time was wasted. If Carey is late then Emerson's time is wasted. I would tell the same time to both of them but make it clear to both parties the others preferences on punctuality. This gives them a chance to not meet up at all, and lets them choose on what is important. If Carey is late, then Emerson can choose whether to waste his time waiting.
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My first reaction was to lie, but upon further thought this has a potential to cause a lot of issues. What if Carey actually is on time because she is interested? Then she is upset because I lied and her time was wasted. If Carey is late then Emerson's time is wasted. I would tell the same time to both of them but make it clear to both parties the others preferences on punctuality. This gives them a chance to not meet up at all, and lets them choose on what is important. If Carey is late, then Emerson can choose whether to waste his time waiting.
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Fiona
I have an Idea to solve this dilemma. Tell Emerson it's at 6: 15, and tell Carey its at 6. yes, it's still lying, but you have accomodated both people's inherent flaws, right? Then, we have lessened the impact of Carey's Beliefs, but not too much so Emmerson can't see that Carey does not value Punctuality over Attendance. It's a Win-Win.
My Philosophy is to try to Balance the light switch, so to speak. Yes, I do believe it is indeed possible to accomidate for everyone, as the old saying goes:
where there is a Will, There is a Way.
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I have an Idea to solve this dilemma. Tell Emerson it's at 6: 15, and tell Carey its at 6. yes, it's still lying, but you have accomodated both people's inherent flaws, right? Then, we have lessened the impact of Carey's Beliefs, but not too much so Emmerson can't see that Carey does not value Punctuality over Attendance. It's a Win-Win.
My Philosophy is to try to Balance the light switch, so to speak. Yes, I do believe it is indeed possible to accomidate for everyone, as the old saying goes:
where there is a Will, There is a Way.
reply
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