A Glimpse Into The Future Of AMD's Hybrid Design
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Date: 2023-06-22
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Comments and reviews: 20
Uro
ZenC / Zen Dense chiplets would be great for low-power and applications that do not need high clock speeds, I'm thinking along the lines of DIY router and nas applications, TrueNAS, Proxmox and other containerised platforms etc, utilising mATX/ITX/mITX type boards where you can add a relatively inexpensive PCIE HBA peripheral to attach a bunch of additional storage and if they had say 10GbE on the motherboard it could possibly turn into a class-leading platform.
Additionally if AMD added a IO-die GPU capable of video encode & decode that could also potentially land AMD a ton of customers in the HTPC & Signage markets where they have nothing with an iGPU that can compete outside of the expensive 3rd party Ryzen/Epyc Embedded boards.
I have been waiting for AMD to create an affordable design that would integrate for these types of platforms easily, low power, lower-clocks are ideal for these as 3rd party Ryzen/Epyc Embedded boards are super expensive and generally not upgradable.
These are markets that are dominated by Intel Celeron/N SKU's and arguably some ARM sku's but on the Arm side there is a lack of software support with most of the previously mentioned platforms preferring to run atop x86-64.
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ZenC / Zen Dense chiplets would be great for low-power and applications that do not need high clock speeds, I'm thinking along the lines of DIY router and nas applications, TrueNAS, Proxmox and other containerised platforms etc, utilising mATX/ITX/mITX type boards where you can add a relatively inexpensive PCIE HBA peripheral to attach a bunch of additional storage and if they had say 10GbE on the motherboard it could possibly turn into a class-leading platform.
Additionally if AMD added a IO-die GPU capable of video encode & decode that could also potentially land AMD a ton of customers in the HTPC & Signage markets where they have nothing with an iGPU that can compete outside of the expensive 3rd party Ryzen/Epyc Embedded boards.
I have been waiting for AMD to create an affordable design that would integrate for these types of platforms easily, low power, lower-clocks are ideal for these as 3rd party Ryzen/Epyc Embedded boards are super expensive and generally not upgradable.
These are markets that are dominated by Intel Celeron/N SKU's and arguably some ARM sku's but on the Arm side there is a lack of software support with most of the previously mentioned platforms preferring to run atop x86-64.
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Ivan
I don't think a 32-core Zen4c SKU for AM5 will serve a significant market demand. The reduced turbo clocks and much smaller L3 will hit hard single-threaded workloads and even coarse-threaded apps. How many customers are relying on a consumer-grade platform to run multiple VM clients full-time or an SQL server processing thousands of queries? On the other hand, low-power mobile form-factors (slim laptops, handheld consoles) might see a tangible benefit from incorporating the scaled-down Zen4 in a compact TDP limited SOC.
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I don't think a 32-core Zen4c SKU for AM5 will serve a significant market demand. The reduced turbo clocks and much smaller L3 will hit hard single-threaded workloads and even coarse-threaded apps. How many customers are relying on a consumer-grade platform to run multiple VM clients full-time or an SQL server processing thousands of queries? On the other hand, low-power mobile form-factors (slim laptops, handheld consoles) might see a tangible benefit from incorporating the scaled-down Zen4 in a compact TDP limited SOC.
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Garrett
From the consumer side, I worry about the available memory bandwidth. That's been an issue for years and primarily worked around with more cache, but this does the opposite. This will better handle non-accelerated workloads with lots of computationally-expensive loops to perform. Think non-accelerated encryption or video encoding.
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From the consumer side, I worry about the available memory bandwidth. That's been an issue for years and primarily worked around with more cache, but this does the opposite. This will better handle non-accelerated workloads with lots of computationally-expensive loops to perform. Think non-accelerated encryption or video encoding.
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Christopher
The 32c64th consumer desktop part could be huge for am5. Imagine the performance.. same wattage and +60% performance in multithreaded would be awesome. Games would run at Ryzen 3600 speeds but honestly it would be plenty for a lot of people. 4c would do at least 60 fps in modern games while the full zen 4 can get over 100fps.
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The 32c64th consumer desktop part could be huge for am5. Imagine the performance.. same wattage and +60% performance in multithreaded would be awesome. Games would run at Ryzen 3600 speeds but honestly it would be plenty for a lot of people. 4c would do at least 60 fps in modern games while the full zen 4 can get over 100fps.
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Sil3nC4
For me there are two interesting use-cases: Ultra-durable low-power mobile systems for remote locations or long time away from infrastructure, and a low-power, high-core-count, always-on systems for homelab servers where you run multiple VMs and containers non-stop that value energy efficiency over single-thread performance
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For me there are two interesting use-cases: Ultra-durable low-power mobile systems for remote locations or long time away from infrastructure, and a low-power, high-core-count, always-on systems for homelab servers where you run multiple VMs and containers non-stop that value energy efficiency over single-thread performance
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Marcin
Maybe AMD is going to make a 3D V-cache CCD plus a dense CCD... or better yet, a triple or quadruple CCDs with a mix of v-cached ones, high frequency regulars, and extra dense for many cores on the same package akin to ARM SoCs comprised of slow efficient cores, mid clocked ones and top performance and high clocked ones...
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Maybe AMD is going to make a 3D V-cache CCD plus a dense CCD... or better yet, a triple or quadruple CCDs with a mix of v-cached ones, high frequency regulars, and extra dense for many cores on the same package akin to ARM SoCs comprised of slow efficient cores, mid clocked ones and top performance and high clocked ones...
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Jason
Intel wasn t the first company to make efficiency cores. Apple and Qualcomm have been putting efficiency cores into smart phone processors for many years. I know that ARM and X64 architecture are totally different. But the idea of putting smaller power efficient cores to take care of background processing is the same.
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Intel wasn t the first company to make efficiency cores. Apple and Qualcomm have been putting efficiency cores into smart phone processors for many years. I know that ARM and X64 architecture are totally different. But the idea of putting smaller power efficient cores to take care of background processing is the same.
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FancyCaveGaming
I think AMD needs to incorporate 8 zen 4c cores into every IO die and just cut it to 4 on lower yields. Then continue run the two external chiplets with their current high performance variant. Then when the computer is truly idling with background tasks the power usage can be very low which is the point.
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I think AMD needs to incorporate 8 zen 4c cores into every IO die and just cut it to 4 on lower yields. Then continue run the two external chiplets with their current high performance variant. Then when the computer is truly idling with background tasks the power usage can be very low which is the point.
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TSN
How well does Intel do its hybrid designs? For just day to day non-gaming use, such as web browsing, does it use very little power? Or is ECores just for background stuff and anything the user actively does, it wakes up the PCores and power usage is just normal for a modern CPU?
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How well does Intel do its hybrid designs? For just day to day non-gaming use, such as web browsing, does it use very little power? Or is ECores just for background stuff and anything the user actively does, it wakes up the PCores and power usage is just normal for a modern CPU?
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Michael
As mainly a gamer, home pc user, and learning production software such as DaVinci Resolve etc . I m still liking to dip my toes into learning sone basics about the server market tech and learning how some things work their way into mainstream computing for all.
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As mainly a gamer, home pc user, and learning production software such as DaVinci Resolve etc . I m still liking to dip my toes into learning sone basics about the server market tech and learning how some things work their way into mainstream computing for all.
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OneAngryCat
Doubtful that we'll see those Zen c cores on Desktop anytime soon.
However as smaller/more compact dies, appearing on laptop first, with the associated lower power draw, is very very certain to happen. Maybe not before Zen 5, but it will happen.
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Doubtful that we'll see those Zen c cores on Desktop anytime soon.
However as smaller/more compact dies, appearing on laptop first, with the associated lower power draw, is very very certain to happen. Maybe not before Zen 5, but it will happen.
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itech
Not a fan of chiplets especially AMD splitting cores. It's just a cheap cost cutting substitute for monolithic CPUs.
It takes the lithography benefits and tosses it out the window when you have millions of nanometers separating the cores.
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Not a fan of chiplets especially AMD splitting cores. It's just a cheap cost cutting substitute for monolithic CPUs.
It takes the lithography benefits and tosses it out the window when you have millions of nanometers separating the cores.
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nunyobiznez
10:09 Cinebench runs just fine on Linux, if you run it with wine or Proton. I've tested it on both Windows and Linux on the same system, and it scores about the same on both. So, there's no need to pollute your system with Windows.
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10:09 Cinebench runs just fine on Linux, if you run it with wine or Proton. I've tested it on both Windows and Linux on the same system, and it scores about the same on both. So, there's no need to pollute your system with Windows.
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vic
Why does AMD always copy Intel? First, they copy intels naming nomenclature i3,i5,i7, and i9, calling it RYZEN 3,5,7 and 9. Now they are copying Intel's hybrid design CPU's P-cores and E-cores and calling it BIG/little with C-cores
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Why does AMD always copy Intel? First, they copy intels naming nomenclature i3,i5,i7, and i9, calling it RYZEN 3,5,7 and 9. Now they are copying Intel's hybrid design CPU's P-cores and E-cores and calling it BIG/little with C-cores
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JBrinx18
A 7965 x3d chip with one vcache and one 4c chiplet would probably work better than the standard 7950x3d chip, because of the lower frequency on the 4c chiplet that would naturally act as an efficiency core to Windows
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A 7965 x3d chip with one vcache and one 4c chiplet would probably work better than the standard 7950x3d chip, because of the lower frequency on the 4c chiplet that would naturally act as an efficiency core to Windows
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Fantasy
I'm now educated & ready 4 more fab futures! didn't nVidia make some cpu's a while back? even though they have
introduced the DPU...sorry off topic...yup AMD has some super P......good luck all....
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I'm now educated & ready 4 more fab futures! didn't nVidia make some cpu's a while back? even though they have
introduced the DPU...sorry off topic...yup AMD has some super P......good luck all....
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giorx5
Using Zen4c AMD can produce twin chiplet cpus that will have up to 32C/64T on AM5 and destroy anything else on the market for MT performance while Zen4 with 3Dcache will be the best for gaming.
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Using Zen4c AMD can produce twin chiplet cpus that will have up to 32C/64T on AM5 and destroy anything else on the market for MT performance while Zen4 with 3Dcache will be the best for gaming.
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Marvin
I have said this before, but of AMD can add a couple of small cores to the IO die, you could see a decent reduction in idle power consumption and small increase in MT performance.
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I have said this before, but of AMD can add a couple of small cores to the IO die, you could see a decent reduction in idle power consumption and small increase in MT performance.
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Mohammed
It sounds very much like the dense cell libraries they used some 10 years ago. Reducing area by around 30% and power by 15-30% While not clocking as high as regular cells
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It sounds very much like the dense cell libraries they used some 10 years ago. Reducing area by around 30% and power by 15-30% While not clocking as high as regular cells
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Knorrkator
Arent c-cores perfect for the consoles? The Zen 2 cores in ps5/xbox series also run considerably lower frequencies and with less cache compared to the standard ones
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Arent c-cores perfect for the consoles? The Zen 2 cores in ps5/xbox series also run considerably lower frequencies and with less cache compared to the standard ones
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