Is Utopia Actually Possible
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Date: 2025-02-02
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Comments and reviews: 20
lmeeken
It's a little strange that we're given a binary scale between libertarianism and progressivism, and that libertarianism is described in more materialist and systemic terms - property and who controls it - while progressivism is described in more identitarian terms - how society treats women and queer people.
It kind of omits how progressive political utopias are very concerned with material questions of power (equitable distribution of material wealth and the means of producing it, and how libertarian utopias conveniently ignore gendered and racialized modes of oppression and inevitably reproduce them (lets count how many libertarians in the comments have an avatar of a white bespectacled dude.
It also omits utopias that exist outside of that binary - like the fascist utopia (for them) that the fascist party in the US is presently trying to force into existence through executive orders. Or decolonial visions of utopia articulated by some Indigenous activists and philosophers.
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It's a little strange that we're given a binary scale between libertarianism and progressivism, and that libertarianism is described in more materialist and systemic terms - property and who controls it - while progressivism is described in more identitarian terms - how society treats women and queer people.
It kind of omits how progressive political utopias are very concerned with material questions of power (equitable distribution of material wealth and the means of producing it, and how libertarian utopias conveniently ignore gendered and racialized modes of oppression and inevitably reproduce them (lets count how many libertarians in the comments have an avatar of a white bespectacled dude.
It also omits utopias that exist outside of that binary - like the fascist utopia (for them) that the fascist party in the US is presently trying to force into existence through executive orders. Or decolonial visions of utopia articulated by some Indigenous activists and philosophers.
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crash_course
kinda think it's partly socrates fault the thirty tyrants took power, what with his flirting with spartan sympathesizing at the end of the peloponnesian war until they actually seized power and it wasn't the glorious republic he envisioned. that's what i read between the lines anyway. that's, i think, what corrupting youth really meant, not that bs from clouds, which was totally not what socrates was into
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kinda think it's partly socrates fault the thirty tyrants took power, what with his flirting with spartan sympathesizing at the end of the peloponnesian war until they actually seized power and it wasn't the glorious republic he envisioned. that's what i read between the lines anyway. that's, i think, what corrupting youth really meant, not that bs from clouds, which was totally not what socrates was into
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BaithNa
Utopia is just a place where people don't have to worry about basic needs or being a wage slave.
Globalization is a clear necessity for any potential Utopia but A. I. and automation will be the driving factor in any potential Utopia due to having to rebuild entire cities, likely 3D printers.
The Zeitgeist movies laid out a perfect format for a Utopian endgame but getting there is the hard part.
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Utopia is just a place where people don't have to worry about basic needs or being a wage slave.
Globalization is a clear necessity for any potential Utopia but A. I. and automation will be the driving factor in any potential Utopia due to having to rebuild entire cities, likely 3D printers.
The Zeitgeist movies laid out a perfect format for a Utopian endgame but getting there is the hard part.
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crash_course
Some live in Utopia right now. They are called 1%ers. Some people live in hell now they are living pay check to pay check or are poor. I don't think they think this is Utopa. In the great words of the Commander Waterford in The Handmaid's tale (which right now if you watch it was almost like a future prediction) The Commander: Better never means better for everyone. It always means worse for some.
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Some live in Utopia right now. They are called 1%ers. Some people live in hell now they are living pay check to pay check or are poor. I don't think they think this is Utopa. In the great words of the Commander Waterford in The Handmaid's tale (which right now if you watch it was almost like a future prediction) The Commander: Better never means better for everyone. It always means worse for some.
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crash_course
The problem with utopia is it's not sustainable throughout generations. Chaos may ensue 2-3 generations later. Therefore, a true utopia would be an environment which in 2-3 generations, small and controlled chaoses occure so that generational trauma keeps on going and no one gets power hungry or chaotic ideas to ruin the utopia
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The problem with utopia is it's not sustainable throughout generations. Chaos may ensue 2-3 generations later. Therefore, a true utopia would be an environment which in 2-3 generations, small and controlled chaoses occure so that generational trauma keeps on going and no one gets power hungry or chaotic ideas to ruin the utopia
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YAH2121
you can formulate an ideal vision of a society in your head as much as you want. But theres a reason utopianism is not practical and not impletemented pragmatically in real life: pluralism. Demographics also play a role.
You can have ideals, but dont bother with utopianism in real life. Just be pragmatic but principled.
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you can formulate an ideal vision of a society in your head as much as you want. But theres a reason utopianism is not practical and not impletemented pragmatically in real life: pluralism. Demographics also play a role.
You can have ideals, but dont bother with utopianism in real life. Just be pragmatic but principled.
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germalganis
I'm gonna be the annoying person that points that libertarianism is not opposed to progresims. I myself am part of the Partido Libetario Progresista. I know the United States has a generational trauma about left and right, but I assure you, you can respect and be nice to others and still think Marx was a wacko.
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I'm gonna be the annoying person that points that libertarianism is not opposed to progresims. I myself am part of the Partido Libetario Progresista. I know the United States has a generational trauma about left and right, but I assure you, you can respect and be nice to others and still think Marx was a wacko.
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dhararry7929
Humans have different desires and values, so making a world that appeals to everyone is impossible. Bad people will always exist, as that isn't a systemic problem, but a human being problem, and some of them will inevitably acquire power, so making a perfect society is impossible.
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Humans have different desires and values, so making a world that appeals to everyone is impossible. Bad people will always exist, as that isn't a systemic problem, but a human being problem, and some of them will inevitably acquire power, so making a perfect society is impossible.
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theomen49
Political power is an endless struggle that will always lead to groups of people using it to gain more power and wealth and to seek to entrench and protect that status. Even if we create a utopian society it will inevitably break down to those pressures and the corruption it causes.
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Political power is an endless struggle that will always lead to groups of people using it to gain more power and wealth and to seek to entrench and protect that status. Even if we create a utopian society it will inevitably break down to those pressures and the corruption it causes.
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depro9
Utopia is on the horizon. I move two steps closer; it moves two steps further away. I walk another ten steps and the horizon runs ten steps further away. As much as I may walk, I'll never reach it. So what's the point of utopia The point is this: to keep walking. -Eduardo Galeano
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Utopia is on the horizon. I move two steps closer; it moves two steps further away. I walk another ten steps and the horizon runs ten steps further away. As much as I may walk, I'll never reach it. So what's the point of utopia The point is this: to keep walking. -Eduardo Galeano
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pedrostormrage
The frustrating thing about utopias is that they seem basically unreachable unless you at least admit the existence of a temporary dictator. Who's gonna trust a dictatorship to be just temporary (and the dictator to be well-intentioned, though
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The frustrating thing about utopias is that they seem basically unreachable unless you at least admit the existence of a temporary dictator. Who's gonna trust a dictatorship to be just temporary (and the dictator to be well-intentioned, though
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mrfalleo
it depends on what you believe a utopia is. it is a subjective concept, it is based on what you feel and want as well as what you are taught, a Utopia is. And that comes from society and experience.
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it depends on what you believe a utopia is. it is a subjective concept, it is based on what you feel and want as well as what you are taught, a Utopia is. And that comes from society and experience.
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Miycu
Iirc, important context for Moores book is that despite being the trope namer, it's not utopian fiction in the way we understand it today but political satire aimed at his contemporaries.
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Iirc, important context for Moores book is that despite being the trope namer, it's not utopian fiction in the way we understand it today but political satire aimed at his contemporaries.
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PaperySloth
As long as people fear death, as long as resources are perceived as finite, and as long as people get pleasure from harming others for any reason whatsoever, utopia is impossible.
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As long as people fear death, as long as resources are perceived as finite, and as long as people get pleasure from harming others for any reason whatsoever, utopia is impossible.
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uria3679
The smart people: if you want to create a utopia, you need to blame the small people for all the problems in the world, which will motivate everyone to work together
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The smart people: if you want to create a utopia, you need to blame the small people for all the problems in the world, which will motivate everyone to work together
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crash_course
don't ever read the foreword to the te of piglet then. that guy has some unflattering, and irrelevant, things to say about the clothing of western philosophers
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don't ever read the foreword to the te of piglet then. that guy has some unflattering, and irrelevant, things to say about the clothing of western philosophers
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JerichoBernal-c3q
YEEEEEAAAAAHHH EPCOT! thanks for talking about epcot, it's one of the dreams I wished happened. Not many talk about the political aaspects.
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YEEEEEAAAAAHHH EPCOT! thanks for talking about epcot, it's one of the dreams I wished happened. Not many talk about the political aaspects.
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CraftyWanderess
I think attempting utopia is accidentally the first step to fascism. Perfection is the enemy of the good, or something like that.
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I think attempting utopia is accidentally the first step to fascism. Perfection is the enemy of the good, or something like that.
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basvriese1934
Is it really fair to juxtapose libertarian and progressive Seems to me both seek individual freedom, just through different means
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Is it really fair to juxtapose libertarian and progressive Seems to me both seek individual freedom, just through different means
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Badbufon
there was a point in time where the rise of technology was seen as the possibility of an utopia. but 2024 have proven that: nope.
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there was a point in time where the rise of technology was seen as the possibility of an utopia. but 2024 have proven that: nope.
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