The Last Jedi Plot Hole That Fans Say Broke Star Wars Forever
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Date: 2020-07-14
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Comments and reviews: 9
Rachel
The thing is, if they wanted the hyperspace ram to be a thing, they'd have to deal with the consequences. It's not logical that no one would have ever tried to weaponize hyperspace, as so many have pointed out. But think of the aftermath - everyone would be horrified.
If news spread hyperspace would effectively shut down because no planet could risk being rammed. Interdictor (sp) fields were a thing in the EU but if hyperspace rams were possible they would be literally EVERYWHERE.
It would become impossible to approach any planet by hyperspace.
Some people say that just knowing such a thing was possible wouldn't make people use it all the time afterward, but actually that's not what history says.
Think of drones. We use drones all the time, and the only thing that stops us using them more is that they can be expensive and they don't always provide the best solution for a military dilemma.
But when you want to bomb something but don't want to risk someone, drones are the new It toy. That's how people operate.
Even if Holdo is the first person to ever figure hyperspace ramming out, everyone would completely freak out because something like that is big enough to change the way the universe functions. It's the equivalent to the world's reaction when America dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan. Everyone freaked. Nothing has been the same since.
If they really want to include this as a part of the Star Wars Universe, then it's possible for them to retcon hyperspace to work this way. But they'd have to give it more weight than they did here and it would frankly take time away from the actual story they're trying (badly) to tell. It would have to get political. And no one enjoyed that in the prequels. This would be even more pointless.
It's just more sensible to stick with the original description of hyperspace. No one denies that the shot was really really cool. But in the long run it's just not worth it.
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The thing is, if they wanted the hyperspace ram to be a thing, they'd have to deal with the consequences. It's not logical that no one would have ever tried to weaponize hyperspace, as so many have pointed out. But think of the aftermath - everyone would be horrified.
If news spread hyperspace would effectively shut down because no planet could risk being rammed. Interdictor (sp) fields were a thing in the EU but if hyperspace rams were possible they would be literally EVERYWHERE.
It would become impossible to approach any planet by hyperspace.
Some people say that just knowing such a thing was possible wouldn't make people use it all the time afterward, but actually that's not what history says.
Think of drones. We use drones all the time, and the only thing that stops us using them more is that they can be expensive and they don't always provide the best solution for a military dilemma.
But when you want to bomb something but don't want to risk someone, drones are the new It toy. That's how people operate.
Even if Holdo is the first person to ever figure hyperspace ramming out, everyone would completely freak out because something like that is big enough to change the way the universe functions. It's the equivalent to the world's reaction when America dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan. Everyone freaked. Nothing has been the same since.
If they really want to include this as a part of the Star Wars Universe, then it's possible for them to retcon hyperspace to work this way. But they'd have to give it more weight than they did here and it would frankly take time away from the actual story they're trying (badly) to tell. It would have to get political. And no one enjoyed that in the prequels. This would be even more pointless.
It's just more sensible to stick with the original description of hyperspace. No one denies that the shot was really really cool. But in the long run it's just not worth it.
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Spartan4426
I feel like the movie, always stuffed full of scenes, really didnt have the time or resources to develop a good strategy, so they resorted to this instead. The problem was that its counterproductive, since instead of showing that Holdo was a brilliant leader, they shouted at people that she was while leaving such an open plot hole. I remember reading about whole line that Rian said was his inspiration, and its because if they dont get the hyperspace coordinates right, they smash into the shadow of an object in hyperspace, killing them while leaving no discernable damage.
I dont hate the movie, but theres too much in its current form that bothers me. I feel like if they had taken the time to develop their characters and ideas more (even if that meant cutting some things out) and considered the implications of some of their story choices instead of saying its a subversion, so it must be good by default, it could have been better. Everything got so warped by the need to take the story a specific way that the characters and ideas really suffer, which is pretty tragic imo
Also, shoutout to Thor Skywalker. Hes a great guy who debates a lot of topics on Star Wars in a balanced and respectful manner, especially when it comes to TLJ
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I feel like the movie, always stuffed full of scenes, really didnt have the time or resources to develop a good strategy, so they resorted to this instead. The problem was that its counterproductive, since instead of showing that Holdo was a brilliant leader, they shouted at people that she was while leaving such an open plot hole. I remember reading about whole line that Rian said was his inspiration, and its because if they dont get the hyperspace coordinates right, they smash into the shadow of an object in hyperspace, killing them while leaving no discernable damage.
I dont hate the movie, but theres too much in its current form that bothers me. I feel like if they had taken the time to develop their characters and ideas more (even if that meant cutting some things out) and considered the implications of some of their story choices instead of saying its a subversion, so it must be good by default, it could have been better. Everything got so warped by the need to take the story a specific way that the characters and ideas really suffer, which is pretty tragic imo
Also, shoutout to Thor Skywalker. Hes a great guy who debates a lot of topics on Star Wars in a balanced and respectful manner, especially when it comes to TLJ
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Pete
The Holdo maneuver breaks nothing. The Rebel Alliance and the Resistance have the same limitations on ships; they don't have many, and often what you see is what they have. Holdo was able to sacrifice a ship that the Resistance couldn't afford to sacrifice before because it was almost out of fuel and would be destroyed anyhow. This wouldn't have worked in A New Hope, because the end of the Death Star didn't mean the end of the Empire. The same could have been said for Return of the Jedi. The Rebel Alliance had no knowledge of Palpatine being on board the new Death Star, and we know now the Empire was not ultimately defeated there, either. There were more battles, like the one over Jakku. Therefore, it would have been a foolish move or quite possibly a serious tactical blunder to go sacrificing valuable resources by jumping into hyperspace and slamming into Imperial targets. This Thor Skywalker guy sure doesn't think things through.
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The Holdo maneuver breaks nothing. The Rebel Alliance and the Resistance have the same limitations on ships; they don't have many, and often what you see is what they have. Holdo was able to sacrifice a ship that the Resistance couldn't afford to sacrifice before because it was almost out of fuel and would be destroyed anyhow. This wouldn't have worked in A New Hope, because the end of the Death Star didn't mean the end of the Empire. The same could have been said for Return of the Jedi. The Rebel Alliance had no knowledge of Palpatine being on board the new Death Star, and we know now the Empire was not ultimately defeated there, either. There were more battles, like the one over Jakku. Therefore, it would have been a foolish move or quite possibly a serious tactical blunder to go sacrificing valuable resources by jumping into hyperspace and slamming into Imperial targets. This Thor Skywalker guy sure doesn't think things through.
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Anthony
Holdo Maneuver is not what broke stars wars. The entire story broke star wars. Second as far as costliness of the ship it makes sense why they don't do it. If they actually incorporate a economy into star wars it would make more sense why they dont do it all the time. George Lucas Specifically said that he modeled The Rebel Alliance and the Empire based on the Vietnam War. Where North Vietnam is the Rebel Alliance and The U. S. is the Empire. He said on one end you have the U. S. with a large Army and Military Might yet they lost to North Vietnam who had out dated weapons and technology yet they won. So the Rebel alliance could not do a holdo manuever on the Death Star simply because they couldn't afford to. And as you can see, even after they destroyed the death star, the war was far from over which would of meant they would of had to commodate the lost of the ship to continue fighting the Empire on a equal level.
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Holdo Maneuver is not what broke stars wars. The entire story broke star wars. Second as far as costliness of the ship it makes sense why they don't do it. If they actually incorporate a economy into star wars it would make more sense why they dont do it all the time. George Lucas Specifically said that he modeled The Rebel Alliance and the Empire based on the Vietnam War. Where North Vietnam is the Rebel Alliance and The U. S. is the Empire. He said on one end you have the U. S. with a large Army and Military Might yet they lost to North Vietnam who had out dated weapons and technology yet they won. So the Rebel alliance could not do a holdo manuever on the Death Star simply because they couldn't afford to. And as you can see, even after they destroyed the death star, the war was far from over which would of meant they would of had to commodate the lost of the ship to continue fighting the Empire on a equal level.
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Jonathan
The Last Jedi sucks! And just like Solo a Star Wars story sucks, For the first ever don''t like Star Wars at all, Except the first six movie and Rouge One, And The Force Awakens is alright as Star Wars movie, But only reason like it a little is that is post Jedi. And always wanted to find what happened after Jedi. I mean before the Force Awakens there was Dark Empire which is better then the Force. Awakens and the Last Jedi combined, So in my point is Disney killed Star Wars, And yet they are still throwing more Star Wars out there. At some point it will fade away like those westerns, That were fading when I was a kid, Way back in the day. And when Blockbuster meant that you were going to see awesome movie. Not a piece of trash, Which Disney has been famous for since, Back in the day when I a kid. But now they are just screwing up Star Wars instead.
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The Last Jedi sucks! And just like Solo a Star Wars story sucks, For the first ever don''t like Star Wars at all, Except the first six movie and Rouge One, And The Force Awakens is alright as Star Wars movie, But only reason like it a little is that is post Jedi. And always wanted to find what happened after Jedi. I mean before the Force Awakens there was Dark Empire which is better then the Force. Awakens and the Last Jedi combined, So in my point is Disney killed Star Wars, And yet they are still throwing more Star Wars out there. At some point it will fade away like those westerns, That were fading when I was a kid, Way back in the day. And when Blockbuster meant that you were going to see awesome movie. Not a piece of trash, Which Disney has been famous for since, Back in the day when I a kid. But now they are just screwing up Star Wars instead.
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constantupgrader
I don't think this breaks Star Wars since you need massive/dense and likely expensive objects installed with hyperdrive capability to take down the shields of whatever you are trying to destroy. Using x-wings etc. is a risk I guess the rebellion was willing to take (rebellion is built on hope) if it meant the ships would return safely, no lives would be lost, and money would be saved while still doing the same job as a kamikaze vehicle. Clearly, however, the rebellion should seriously consider investing in droid-operated kamikaze vehicles since they always tend to lose tons of lives etc.
I also assume vehicles are able to jump to hyperspace as long as a few calculations are made to ensure that they do not run into any objects denser than what their shield is capable of protecting against.
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I don't think this breaks Star Wars since you need massive/dense and likely expensive objects installed with hyperdrive capability to take down the shields of whatever you are trying to destroy. Using x-wings etc. is a risk I guess the rebellion was willing to take (rebellion is built on hope) if it meant the ships would return safely, no lives would be lost, and money would be saved while still doing the same job as a kamikaze vehicle. Clearly, however, the rebellion should seriously consider investing in droid-operated kamikaze vehicles since they always tend to lose tons of lives etc.
I also assume vehicles are able to jump to hyperspace as long as a few calculations are made to ensure that they do not run into any objects denser than what their shield is capable of protecting against.
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Andrew
Really, that was the least of my concerns. I mean, ANY futuristic sci-fi with FTL drives raises this possibility. The Expanded Universe (RIP) explained this by saying that you cannot go through a planet since gravity wells take you out of hyperspace, which potentially explains why it wouldnt work on the Death Stars or Starkiller base. However, as the EU is no longer canon, this does not necessarily explain that plot hole away.
Far more egregious, to me at least, was how they basically subverted all expectations simply for the purpose of subverting them. There was no plot advancement or deeper meaning behind Reys parents, Snokes death, Del Toros betrayal, etc. other than boy bet you didnt see that coming.
You know why we didnt see it coming? BECAUSE WE KNEW THEY WOULD BE DISAPPOINTING!
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Really, that was the least of my concerns. I mean, ANY futuristic sci-fi with FTL drives raises this possibility. The Expanded Universe (RIP) explained this by saying that you cannot go through a planet since gravity wells take you out of hyperspace, which potentially explains why it wouldnt work on the Death Stars or Starkiller base. However, as the EU is no longer canon, this does not necessarily explain that plot hole away.
Far more egregious, to me at least, was how they basically subverted all expectations simply for the purpose of subverting them. There was no plot advancement or deeper meaning behind Reys parents, Snokes death, Del Toros betrayal, etc. other than boy bet you didnt see that coming.
You know why we didnt see it coming? BECAUSE WE KNEW THEY WOULD BE DISAPPOINTING!
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lukeallinone
Its not a plot hole for anyone who cares to read this heres what happened
The ship use to carry out the holdo maneuver was a brand new ship and because of that had brand new tech never before seen one of which shown in the movie is the shield is away from the ship this is the first ship in starwars (at that time) to have that kind of shield. The shield cut through the dreadnaught not the rebels ship it would have been impossible for this to happen on the Death Star not because of a plot hole but because in the Star Wars universe the tech didnt exist. So because the shield cut through the ship it wouldnt have been possible to do this on the Death Star. Because that kind of ship didnt exist before the battle of yavin
My source the last Jedi novel and comic adaptation
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Its not a plot hole for anyone who cares to read this heres what happened
The ship use to carry out the holdo maneuver was a brand new ship and because of that had brand new tech never before seen one of which shown in the movie is the shield is away from the ship this is the first ship in starwars (at that time) to have that kind of shield. The shield cut through the dreadnaught not the rebels ship it would have been impossible for this to happen on the Death Star not because of a plot hole but because in the Star Wars universe the tech didnt exist. So because the shield cut through the ship it wouldnt have been possible to do this on the Death Star. Because that kind of ship didnt exist before the battle of yavin
My source the last Jedi novel and comic adaptation
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Darren
Has anyone has read, or looked at the beautifully drawn DK vehicle cutaway books? In the book that features the cutaways for 'Revenge of the Sith' the small details that accompany the artwork reveal that the planet where General Grievous' command carriers are built is now 'floodec with lethal radiation and fractured to the core due to a catastrophic hyperspace accident involving the Republic star battlecruiser Questor'. As this would have occurred during the clone wars does this lead to the possibility this was known about all along, or just simply a small detail added by someone to give the clone wars a hint of a whole load of smaller such incidents in the size and scale of the war itself?
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Has anyone has read, or looked at the beautifully drawn DK vehicle cutaway books? In the book that features the cutaways for 'Revenge of the Sith' the small details that accompany the artwork reveal that the planet where General Grievous' command carriers are built is now 'floodec with lethal radiation and fractured to the core due to a catastrophic hyperspace accident involving the Republic star battlecruiser Questor'. As this would have occurred during the clone wars does this lead to the possibility this was known about all along, or just simply a small detail added by someone to give the clone wars a hint of a whole load of smaller such incidents in the size and scale of the war itself?
reply
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