HW News - MSI Driver Code Breach, 10% 7800X3D Boost, Budget A620 Motherboards
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Date: 2023-04-11
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Comments and reviews: 15
itech
I think the A620 motherboards are still far too lacking in features for an 80-100 motherboard.
For starters the IO is severely lacking. USB-C is nice to have, but only 4 USB-A ports, 2 of which are USB 2, is severely limiting.
Secondly, the lacking VRMs and power delivery compared to B450 motherboards from even 2-3 years ago that could sustain an overclocked Ryzen 7 CPU, or at least something greater than 65W, is disappointing as well.
It's not just home theater and office PC users who will be buying these motherboards. Budget builders such as myself 3 years ago will not want to buy motherboards with the fastest PCIe lanes or more than 2 M.2 slots, but being able to plug in more than 4 USB devices, upgrade the memory beyond 2 sticks (whose stability will be improved by not tweaking anything beyond applying XMP), and overclock/underclock a CPU for better performance/thermals should really be basic features that work on any motherboard, and relegating the formerly B-series motherboard pricing down to
A620 boards, while B650 boards have overbuilt VRMs or simply are price-gouged and continue to be unaffordable to PC builders who don't have beyond a still-large 600-700 budget.
Edit: Not having any more than 2 SATA ports on a motherboard whose PC will be used for home theater and office PCs, where hard drives and optical drives are more common, is pretty bad as well. Especially for a motherboard so lacking in features already, the low bandwidth required by SATA and the plentiful free space available (due to a lack of PCIe 5, >2 M.2 slots, and more IO) makes this exclusion even more baffling. I bought an 80 B450 motherboard for my build, and only by re-using my previous PC's SATA SSD, 2 4 TB hard drives (one as a backup ), and a blu-ray drive, I've already exceeded this budget motherboard's available SATA ports.
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I think the A620 motherboards are still far too lacking in features for an 80-100 motherboard.
For starters the IO is severely lacking. USB-C is nice to have, but only 4 USB-A ports, 2 of which are USB 2, is severely limiting.
Secondly, the lacking VRMs and power delivery compared to B450 motherboards from even 2-3 years ago that could sustain an overclocked Ryzen 7 CPU, or at least something greater than 65W, is disappointing as well.
It's not just home theater and office PC users who will be buying these motherboards. Budget builders such as myself 3 years ago will not want to buy motherboards with the fastest PCIe lanes or more than 2 M.2 slots, but being able to plug in more than 4 USB devices, upgrade the memory beyond 2 sticks (whose stability will be improved by not tweaking anything beyond applying XMP), and overclock/underclock a CPU for better performance/thermals should really be basic features that work on any motherboard, and relegating the formerly B-series motherboard pricing down to
A620 boards, while B650 boards have overbuilt VRMs or simply are price-gouged and continue to be unaffordable to PC builders who don't have beyond a still-large 600-700 budget.
Edit: Not having any more than 2 SATA ports on a motherboard whose PC will be used for home theater and office PCs, where hard drives and optical drives are more common, is pretty bad as well. Especially for a motherboard so lacking in features already, the low bandwidth required by SATA and the plentiful free space available (due to a lack of PCIe 5, >2 M.2 slots, and more IO) makes this exclusion even more baffling. I bought an 80 B450 motherboard for my build, and only by re-using my previous PC's SATA SSD, 2 4 TB hard drives (one as a backup ), and a blu-ray drive, I've already exceeded this budget motherboard's available SATA ports.
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Sergey
for college book prices - I agree, they're well too overpriced, and the system is absolutely spoiled. Simple system: 1) You have a course 2) You have a book related to the course (for example, with web access to do the homework) 3) You have to buy that book, and you have a) no alternatives, b) strict time to buy (say, a week when course starts), c) you can't buy old generation , issue of that exercise book (10-years old for example) because... Who knows why, but it differs ).
Ecologic concerns with environmental resources consumption? Availability of cheap education? Fair market? Nah, skip that for tuition books =).
So if there was the way to break that monopoly by buying (or even getting free access, because, well, it must be free) access to do your homework on some portal, and to get tuition books online for cheap or free - that's a win-win situation for everyone except for major publishers (monopolists). And, for me, it doesn't make sense that these market players abuse the education system for their profit. Why do you need to change college books every 5-10 years or even more frequently? Does, for example, English language (ESL course) change so frequently? =) And re-using old books (which you use, literally, few months, and just have to get rid of it) will help preserving natural resources and manufacturing for something different/better.
So - yes, absolutely spoiled system which makes absolutely no sense, but a lot of people forced to spend money to that nonsense every year in all America.
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for college book prices - I agree, they're well too overpriced, and the system is absolutely spoiled. Simple system: 1) You have a course 2) You have a book related to the course (for example, with web access to do the homework) 3) You have to buy that book, and you have a) no alternatives, b) strict time to buy (say, a week when course starts), c) you can't buy old generation , issue of that exercise book (10-years old for example) because... Who knows why, but it differs ).
Ecologic concerns with environmental resources consumption? Availability of cheap education? Fair market? Nah, skip that for tuition books =).
So if there was the way to break that monopoly by buying (or even getting free access, because, well, it must be free) access to do your homework on some portal, and to get tuition books online for cheap or free - that's a win-win situation for everyone except for major publishers (monopolists). And, for me, it doesn't make sense that these market players abuse the education system for their profit. Why do you need to change college books every 5-10 years or even more frequently? Does, for example, English language (ESL course) change so frequently? =) And re-using old books (which you use, literally, few months, and just have to get rid of it) will help preserving natural resources and manufacturing for something different/better.
So - yes, absolutely spoiled system which makes absolutely no sense, but a lot of people forced to spend money to that nonsense every year in all America.
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Marc
IP rights have been extended to the point of being ridiculous. This is especially the case with copyright. There should not be a copyright for anything over a certain amount of time not exceeding in any way or form 30 years and it should only be the case if they've gone through a second application at 15 years. In addition, the library type use, especially when they've taken such great extents as buying the book to begin with and making sure only one such copy goes out either the book or the electronic version at a time, should be part of fair use. The reasoning behind copyright to begin with, was not to give a monopoly for perpetuity, or against the needs of society... In fact it was done for the exact opposite on both counts. It was recognized that for a certain amount of time the author should have a monopoly on their work, but it was also recognized that it was derived from the common culture, and at a certain point it becomes part of the common culture. The philosophy and reasonings behind this is so complex, that are founding fathers who themselves were authors, only stated that it should be dealt with and gave very little negative language as to how to deal with it leaving it for future legislative bodies. They assumed people would be a little more concerned with the value to the Commons, they were wrong on this aspect
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IP rights have been extended to the point of being ridiculous. This is especially the case with copyright. There should not be a copyright for anything over a certain amount of time not exceeding in any way or form 30 years and it should only be the case if they've gone through a second application at 15 years. In addition, the library type use, especially when they've taken such great extents as buying the book to begin with and making sure only one such copy goes out either the book or the electronic version at a time, should be part of fair use. The reasoning behind copyright to begin with, was not to give a monopoly for perpetuity, or against the needs of society... In fact it was done for the exact opposite on both counts. It was recognized that for a certain amount of time the author should have a monopoly on their work, but it was also recognized that it was derived from the common culture, and at a certain point it becomes part of the common culture. The philosophy and reasonings behind this is so complex, that are founding fathers who themselves were authors, only stated that it should be dealt with and gave very little negative language as to how to deal with it leaving it for future legislative bodies. They assumed people would be a little more concerned with the value to the Commons, they were wrong on this aspect
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lotto77102
Honestly for the IA thing I can see it both ways. They're absolutely in the right morally but they operated in a legal grey area without any prior permission (which they wouldn't get because, y'know, evil publishers).
I think what would've really helped them is to ignore the fair use argument entirely, as it clearly isn't transformative and would only serve to distract a judge with something they're completely in the wrong about, and they should've focused on that first sale thing and the fact that they're legally obtaining books and exclusively renting out single copies of them. It's still a legal grey area doing it on an industrial scale like that, but there's a solid argument that they've already compensated the publisher/author by buying the book new, and the lack of fees mean that there's no further compensation that could be made (which could also be an issue maybe?).
Then again my legalese is only really at a passing level, so that could be an even riskier argument and I'd have no idea lmao. The real problem from this whole mess, though, is that it opens the IA up to further attacks for items/webpages on their archive, which they've already struggled with in the past.
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Honestly for the IA thing I can see it both ways. They're absolutely in the right morally but they operated in a legal grey area without any prior permission (which they wouldn't get because, y'know, evil publishers).
I think what would've really helped them is to ignore the fair use argument entirely, as it clearly isn't transformative and would only serve to distract a judge with something they're completely in the wrong about, and they should've focused on that first sale thing and the fact that they're legally obtaining books and exclusively renting out single copies of them. It's still a legal grey area doing it on an industrial scale like that, but there's a solid argument that they've already compensated the publisher/author by buying the book new, and the lack of fees mean that there's no further compensation that could be made (which could also be an issue maybe?).
Then again my legalese is only really at a passing level, so that could be an even riskier argument and I'd have no idea lmao. The real problem from this whole mess, though, is that it opens the IA up to further attacks for items/webpages on their archive, which they've already struggled with in the past.
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Monty
American consumer rights are disgustingly biased towards the seller, so much so consumer rights effectively don't exist.... especially when it comes to digital products and adhering to international law. Mainly they just adhere to whichever state law regarding it they reside in, and expect that to encompass all.... globally. It doesn't which has landed many companies in losing lawsuits. No real relevance, I was under the impression internet archive was a free service, I'm probably wrong, but if I'm not that statement from the judge is irrelevant as no profit is being made and another more discerning argument should be made. I thought that was the point of it, to loan expensive texts for free to students in need. If they are profiting from it then, yeah, # %#em. When the internet came about that essentially was the driving point of the benefit of it, having access to these materials as a library.
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American consumer rights are disgustingly biased towards the seller, so much so consumer rights effectively don't exist.... especially when it comes to digital products and adhering to international law. Mainly they just adhere to whichever state law regarding it they reside in, and expect that to encompass all.... globally. It doesn't which has landed many companies in losing lawsuits. No real relevance, I was under the impression internet archive was a free service, I'm probably wrong, but if I'm not that statement from the judge is irrelevant as no profit is being made and another more discerning argument should be made. I thought that was the point of it, to loan expensive texts for free to students in need. If they are profiting from it then, yeah, # %#em. When the internet came about that essentially was the driving point of the benefit of it, having access to these materials as a library.
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Daniel
in regards to the internet archive ruling, I think publishers on the whole can go f k themselves. I'm sure there might be some options out there that legitimately make things easier and better for authors and those looking to get their works out into the world. Though, all I've seen of them is similar to the record industry. A bunch of greedy gate keepers and middle men, leaching off of those who actually make stuff. The internet and ubiquity of computers is making the publisher more relevant by the year. I'm one that loves a physical copy of a book, the smell, the feeling, the act of turning pages. but I'm also fine with using an e-reader to consume books if it keeps money out of the pockets of those that would see institutions like the IA closed down to preserve their own profits
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in regards to the internet archive ruling, I think publishers on the whole can go f k themselves. I'm sure there might be some options out there that legitimately make things easier and better for authors and those looking to get their works out into the world. Though, all I've seen of them is similar to the record industry. A bunch of greedy gate keepers and middle men, leaching off of those who actually make stuff. The internet and ubiquity of computers is making the publisher more relevant by the year. I'm one that loves a physical copy of a book, the smell, the feeling, the act of turning pages. but I'm also fine with using an e-reader to consume books if it keeps money out of the pockets of those that would see institutions like the IA closed down to preserve their own profits
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Kristopher
As someone who has published books, ebooks, podcasts, and websites, the archive has provided a service. Any little royalty publishers might possibly lose (emphasis on might and little) is far suoerceded by the social benefit they award the public.
This is the function of law and copyright, after all. When we stand back and think about what laws and property rights are for its to assure the greatest benefit to the most people to the least cost without significantly impacting the creator's motivation to publish nor impair their ability to feed and clothe themselves.
Nobody is homeless because internet archive leant out 1 book they bought for the purpose of lending. If anything it's advertising.
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As someone who has published books, ebooks, podcasts, and websites, the archive has provided a service. Any little royalty publishers might possibly lose (emphasis on might and little) is far suoerceded by the social benefit they award the public.
This is the function of law and copyright, after all. When we stand back and think about what laws and property rights are for its to assure the greatest benefit to the most people to the least cost without significantly impacting the creator's motivation to publish nor impair their ability to feed and clothe themselves.
Nobody is homeless because internet archive leant out 1 book they bought for the purpose of lending. If anything it's advertising.
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HolyDevilKing
As a not-a-lawyer, what IA is doing feels illegal to me but I also can't justify siding with the evil publishers so I hope IA wins but I don't think the chances are good.
To make an analogy with movies, is it legal for me to make a copy of a movie and give that copy to a friend while still retaining my original copy and promising I won't use it until I get the copy back from my friend? That's not something I would have any qualms with doing (if I even had any physical media movies to copy) or other people doing, because who cares about some massive company getting another 5? But I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
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As a not-a-lawyer, what IA is doing feels illegal to me but I also can't justify siding with the evil publishers so I hope IA wins but I don't think the chances are good.
To make an analogy with movies, is it legal for me to make a copy of a movie and give that copy to a friend while still retaining my original copy and promising I won't use it until I get the copy back from my friend? That's not something I would have any qualms with doing (if I even had any physical media movies to copy) or other people doing, because who cares about some massive company getting another 5? But I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
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SpudHead
The source code alone for drivers is pretty useless to attackers to be honest, these guys are not interested in writing drivers. What is dangerous is not the source code but the code signing private key. If malicious parties got hold of that, then that's a huge issue, execution of driver level code can rootkit a system really deeply. It's also a massive headache if that has happened. It's not just a case of issuing a certificate revocation and giving MSI a new one, because millions of previous and legit MSI drivers would then just stop working causing a global PR nightmare.
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The source code alone for drivers is pretty useless to attackers to be honest, these guys are not interested in writing drivers. What is dangerous is not the source code but the code signing private key. If malicious parties got hold of that, then that's a huge issue, execution of driver level code can rootkit a system really deeply. It's also a massive headache if that has happened. It's not just a case of issuing a certificate revocation and giving MSI a new one, because millions of previous and legit MSI drivers would then just stop working causing a global PR nightmare.
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Ben
I'm glad to see competition for the steam deck, but I would stay far, far away from an ASUS model. In the last few years I have been doing laptop repair, ASUS has been horrible about replacement parts. They just don't have any. The touchpad stopped working on your 3000 laptop? Use a mouse or buy a new one. Kid knocked it off the table and the charging port broke? Asus doesn't have replacements, buy a new one. And I'm talking about models that aren't even 2 years old yet. I expect the ASUS steam deck to be the same: e-waste the second you need anything fixed on it.
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I'm glad to see competition for the steam deck, but I would stay far, far away from an ASUS model. In the last few years I have been doing laptop repair, ASUS has been horrible about replacement parts. They just don't have any. The touchpad stopped working on your 3000 laptop? Use a mouse or buy a new one. Kid knocked it off the table and the charging port broke? Asus doesn't have replacements, buy a new one. And I'm talking about models that aren't even 2 years old yet. I expect the ASUS steam deck to be the same: e-waste the second you need anything fixed on it.
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cutterjohn
could the modelling agency for that tablet not afford real clothes and they had to shop at salvation army?
as to college text books, oh boy publishers lost against those corporate college bookstores that raped you at almost full fresh price on second hand textbooks... let me break out the world's smallest violin for the lawsuit against the internet archive... I think that they already have many copyright protections which Im surprised that they hadnt broken out, maybe thats their hole card... they have library of congress exemptions in plethora...
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could the modelling agency for that tablet not afford real clothes and they had to shop at salvation army?
as to college text books, oh boy publishers lost against those corporate college bookstores that raped you at almost full fresh price on second hand textbooks... let me break out the world's smallest violin for the lawsuit against the internet archive... I think that they already have many copyright protections which Im surprised that they hadnt broken out, maybe thats their hole card... they have library of congress exemptions in plethora...
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PCoverthink
Just make sure to run memtests when applying MSIs settings. Especially if you have Samsung or Micron memory ICs because those are worse than Hynix and their capabilities aren't explored much even by overclockers (And AIBs are usually lazier than individuals when it comes to overclocking and testing OCs stability especially). Also don't listen to those who says that such tweaks affect your CPUs lifespan significantly. It'll be just fine after 5-10 years if you're not setting unsafe voltages yourself or tinker with temperature limits.
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Just make sure to run memtests when applying MSIs settings. Especially if you have Samsung or Micron memory ICs because those are worse than Hynix and their capabilities aren't explored much even by overclockers (And AIBs are usually lazier than individuals when it comes to overclocking and testing OCs stability especially). Also don't listen to those who says that such tweaks affect your CPUs lifespan significantly. It'll be just fine after 5-10 years if you're not setting unsafe voltages yourself or tinker with temperature limits.
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youkofoxy
I do not see what Internet archive has done as wrong.
Yes, they should not lend more books that they own, however how is the license for distributing a limited amount of digital books any different from distributing a Digital Backup?
In Brazil there a law that allow one to have a second copy of anything for the proposes of backup.
In my view they are not infringing any right, so the question is how does that corrode the copyright owner rights?
That needs good explanation.
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I do not see what Internet archive has done as wrong.
Yes, they should not lend more books that they own, however how is the license for distributing a limited amount of digital books any different from distributing a Digital Backup?
In Brazil there a law that allow one to have a second copy of anything for the proposes of backup.
In my view they are not infringing any right, so the question is how does that corrode the copyright owner rights?
That needs good explanation.
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GettnBetter
Libraries also let folks borrow movies. Digitizing books would be the same as digitizing Blu-Ray or other media including copyrighted printed material like news pages. Libraries often miniaturize their books and publications on micro-fitch, are we saying that is illegal? Digitizing any physical media should be a right as long as the ownership of the original is maintained. My personal feeling is modern digital distribution is taking advantage of the system.
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Libraries also let folks borrow movies. Digitizing books would be the same as digitizing Blu-Ray or other media including copyrighted printed material like news pages. Libraries often miniaturize their books and publications on micro-fitch, are we saying that is illegal? Digitizing any physical media should be a right as long as the ownership of the original is maintained. My personal feeling is modern digital distribution is taking advantage of the system.
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Overwatch
Correction: There is no limit to the number of electronic copies a library can distribute from a scan of a physical book.
As long as the library buys the book and scans it, they can distribute the electronic copy as many times as they need to.
This is one of the reasons certain publishers outright refuse to sell books to libraries, or include other license-burdened parts that subvert the copying rule.
NOTE: Link to specific reference goes here.
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Correction: There is no limit to the number of electronic copies a library can distribute from a scan of a physical book.
As long as the library buys the book and scans it, they can distribute the electronic copy as many times as they need to.
This is one of the reasons certain publishers outright refuse to sell books to libraries, or include other license-burdened parts that subvert the copying rule.
NOTE: Link to specific reference goes here.
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