Heavily Tuned AMD Ryzen 5 3600 vs. Intel i5-10400: RAM Timings & Overclocks
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Date: 2020-05-30
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Comments and reviews: 10
André
I honestly love the ammount of effort you put into this issue. However, I would like to point out your exact words at 10:26: The 10400 makes absolutely no sense to buy if you're going to do all this work and all this reasearch. , and how exactly that translates into the current population: it doesn't. It works exactly how you said at 20:41, we don't matter . We're a very niche percentage of the total market, and for some reason, some of us don't/can't/refuse see it. We tend to forget that the immense vast majority of the population doesn't know and doesn't care about memory timings, temperatures, general overcloking, fan curves, etc; they want to press a button and have the thing work, and that's it. I know people who have bought a laptop to place on their office desk (and keep it there) instead of a desktop because they didn't want to deal with all the cables ; when I mentioned that it literally takes just a few minutes to organize them and hide them away (how many options are there nowadays for this?!) some of these people actually say that they still had to plug them it and stuff . And here lies the problem, society has become so lazy that even the thought of taking up to one minute connectiong an HDMI, 2 USB cables and possibly an ethernet cable can be off-putting to some, so they just buy a laptop because it looks pretty . And unfortunately, these kind of people outnumber us enthusiasts by an enormous margin. I haven't recommended Intel CPUs for a desktop since the lauch of the Ryzen 2000 series, and that's unlikely to change in the near future. The only exception to this is if people are on a very strict budget and have to consider second hand/refurbished hardware since Ryzen isn't available on the second hand market where I live (way too new for it to be available there), and for the prices being asked on eBay for it, it just doesn't make sense.
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I honestly love the ammount of effort you put into this issue. However, I would like to point out your exact words at 10:26: The 10400 makes absolutely no sense to buy if you're going to do all this work and all this reasearch. , and how exactly that translates into the current population: it doesn't. It works exactly how you said at 20:41, we don't matter . We're a very niche percentage of the total market, and for some reason, some of us don't/can't/refuse see it. We tend to forget that the immense vast majority of the population doesn't know and doesn't care about memory timings, temperatures, general overcloking, fan curves, etc; they want to press a button and have the thing work, and that's it. I know people who have bought a laptop to place on their office desk (and keep it there) instead of a desktop because they didn't want to deal with all the cables ; when I mentioned that it literally takes just a few minutes to organize them and hide them away (how many options are there nowadays for this?!) some of these people actually say that they still had to plug them it and stuff . And here lies the problem, society has become so lazy that even the thought of taking up to one minute connectiong an HDMI, 2 USB cables and possibly an ethernet cable can be off-putting to some, so they just buy a laptop because it looks pretty . And unfortunately, these kind of people outnumber us enthusiasts by an enormous margin. I haven't recommended Intel CPUs for a desktop since the lauch of the Ryzen 2000 series, and that's unlikely to change in the near future. The only exception to this is if people are on a very strict budget and have to consider second hand/refurbished hardware since Ryzen isn't available on the second hand market where I live (way too new for it to be available there), and for the prices being asked on eBay for it, it just doesn't make sense.
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gracej79
This was disappointing. The results show that the majority of the difference between your 3200C14 and 2666C15 results was because of the large latency difference, rather than the bandwidth speed. IMHO you've turned it into a reductio ad absurdum argument which doesn't address the criticism of the original review. There is no need to use 300 RAM, or tune for better than equal latency. It would have been fine to tune the 3200C14 to 2666C12 or C13, or whatever it was happy with, and tested with that in order to have a fairer test on the same memory. Or you could have factored in the cost of the cheaper RAM used for the original 2666C15 results. The problem with the original review was that the viewer was given the impression that the 2666C15 results were indicative of limits you would face on B460, and so the user had a choice between an expensive z490 board with equal RAM and higher performance, or cheaper b460 with equal RAM and slower performance. However that performance could be achieved with cheaper RAM, and there was a third option, b460, the same 3200C14 ram running at 2666 with reasonable timings and middle performance.
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This was disappointing. The results show that the majority of the difference between your 3200C14 and 2666C15 results was because of the large latency difference, rather than the bandwidth speed. IMHO you've turned it into a reductio ad absurdum argument which doesn't address the criticism of the original review. There is no need to use 300 RAM, or tune for better than equal latency. It would have been fine to tune the 3200C14 to 2666C12 or C13, or whatever it was happy with, and tested with that in order to have a fairer test on the same memory. Or you could have factored in the cost of the cheaper RAM used for the original 2666C15 results. The problem with the original review was that the viewer was given the impression that the 2666C15 results were indicative of limits you would face on B460, and so the user had a choice between an expensive z490 board with equal RAM and higher performance, or cheaper b460 with equal RAM and slower performance. However that performance could be achieved with cheaper RAM, and there was a third option, b460, the same 3200C14 ram running at 2666 with reasonable timings and middle performance.
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Guest
Steve, I have a few questions and would really appreciate if you could answer them! 1. What are B and H motherboards you're talking about? Are they just a lineup of Intel chipset mobos? 2. Does CL, say CL10 stand for CAS Latency ? 3. The 3000 series lineup of Ryzen CPUs utilize RAM speeds up to 3200MHz for example. Is that only referring to when they're at base clock speeds? As in, if you overclocked one it would be able to utilize RAM speeds that are higher than 3200MHz? (this would then go for any unlocked CPU) 4. RAM transfers data at 64 bits/s correct? For example, a certain brand or 3200MHz RAM may say 25600 somewhere in its name, which implies that 3200 x 8 (8 bits in a byte, 64 bits makes 8 bytes) is that number. Does this have to do with the OS having to be 64-bit? So say if it were Windows 10 32-bit for example, would the RAM be transferring only up to 32 bits which would mean that number would be like 12800 5. You said that F12 was a scalable game. Are you referring to how it scales on the CPU and GPU? For example, that it is really GPU-intensive at high settings at 1080p? Thank you!
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Steve, I have a few questions and would really appreciate if you could answer them! 1. What are B and H motherboards you're talking about? Are they just a lineup of Intel chipset mobos? 2. Does CL, say CL10 stand for CAS Latency ? 3. The 3000 series lineup of Ryzen CPUs utilize RAM speeds up to 3200MHz for example. Is that only referring to when they're at base clock speeds? As in, if you overclocked one it would be able to utilize RAM speeds that are higher than 3200MHz? (this would then go for any unlocked CPU) 4. RAM transfers data at 64 bits/s correct? For example, a certain brand or 3200MHz RAM may say 25600 somewhere in its name, which implies that 3200 x 8 (8 bits in a byte, 64 bits makes 8 bytes) is that number. Does this have to do with the OS having to be 64-bit? So say if it were Windows 10 32-bit for example, would the RAM be transferring only up to 32 bits which would mean that number would be like 12800 5. You said that F12 was a scalable game. Are you referring to how it scales on the CPU and GPU? For example, that it is really GPU-intensive at high settings at 1080p? Thank you!
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Windows
Well it depends I build computers so let me ask some expense questions here! If you can get a z series board for the same money or cheaper than the board that AMD Chip is gonna require, I guess it wouldn't matter, you could just have it for the ram overclocking and CPU upgrade path? Also you're gonna need a hefty cooling solution for that AMD chip also to support the overclocking on that AMD chip? On that Intel you could buy a cheap tower cooler something a bit overkill and just good enough to keep the noise down, not to mention that that expensive a Ram that AMD chip requires to to achieve that function at those speeds, Someone might be able to get a cheaper ram sticks on that Intel board to still overclock that same way, that would also be something interesting to find out as well! I personally don't overclock my computer parts past the recommended limits and they still game just fine! :)
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Well it depends I build computers so let me ask some expense questions here! If you can get a z series board for the same money or cheaper than the board that AMD Chip is gonna require, I guess it wouldn't matter, you could just have it for the ram overclocking and CPU upgrade path? Also you're gonna need a hefty cooling solution for that AMD chip also to support the overclocking on that AMD chip? On that Intel you could buy a cheap tower cooler something a bit overkill and just good enough to keep the noise down, not to mention that that expensive a Ram that AMD chip requires to to achieve that function at those speeds, Someone might be able to get a cheaper ram sticks on that Intel board to still overclock that same way, that would also be something interesting to find out as well! I personally don't overclock my computer parts past the recommended limits and they still game just fine! :)
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Sean
I love that this is basically a f&ck you, we told you it wasn't worth it, we told you why it wasn't worth it, but now you pissed us off so we're going to spend 3 days not only proving our initial point, but we'll expose even more reasons why it isn't worth it . This is sort of like watching a bunch of hyena's annoying and pestering a lion, and the lion finally getting tired of it and swatting the sh%t out of them as the hyenas tuck tail and run off. I can relate to this on so many levels. Pay attention everyone, this is how you professionally tell am entire group of misinformed people to get f cked.
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I love that this is basically a f&ck you, we told you it wasn't worth it, we told you why it wasn't worth it, but now you pissed us off so we're going to spend 3 days not only proving our initial point, but we'll expose even more reasons why it isn't worth it . This is sort of like watching a bunch of hyena's annoying and pestering a lion, and the lion finally getting tired of it and swatting the sh%t out of them as the hyenas tuck tail and run off. I can relate to this on so many levels. Pay attention everyone, this is how you professionally tell am entire group of misinformed people to get f cked.
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Kos
There are kits like e-die crucial 3000c15 manage to get 3733c15 on ryzen 3600, with cost only 70-80 for 2x8GB or even if you want b-die, you can get the popular F4-3600C15D-16GTZ for only 150 here in europe, those are capable on some ryzen systems to get 3800c14. You don't need to buy the royal shit for 300 for memory tuning, just to justify the 10600K. The point with 3600 is a cheap cpu on a cheap mobo with cheap crucial e-die getting the most of the gaming performance of a lot more expensive 10600K+z490+xmp memory configuration.
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There are kits like e-die crucial 3000c15 manage to get 3733c15 on ryzen 3600, with cost only 70-80 for 2x8GB or even if you want b-die, you can get the popular F4-3600C15D-16GTZ for only 150 here in europe, those are capable on some ryzen systems to get 3800c14. You don't need to buy the royal shit for 300 for memory tuning, just to justify the 10600K. The point with 3600 is a cheap cpu on a cheap mobo with cheap crucial e-die getting the most of the gaming performance of a lot more expensive 10600K+z490+xmp memory configuration.
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Conza
I think it's great that the majority of the community watches the majority of the content creators, I'm in that camp at least, and they all pretty much say But hey that's just my results make sure you look at everyone else in case I/we made a mistake , there's probably a vocal minority that area snobs to their favourite creator and put others down. Those people don't matter, be one of the good ones and be nice, especially if you're being constructive because guess what? You can be wrong too
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I think it's great that the majority of the community watches the majority of the content creators, I'm in that camp at least, and they all pretty much say But hey that's just my results make sure you look at everyone else in case I/we made a mistake , there's probably a vocal minority that area snobs to their favourite creator and put others down. Those people don't matter, be one of the good ones and be nice, especially if you're being constructive because guess what? You can be wrong too
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Daily
Little tip for people with low amount of money : you can find cheap micron Edie ( new ballistix kits) and still get pretty nice results on ryzen, they are worse for TRFC but good overall :). Primary timings will be a little worse too ( mainly TRCDRD) but they don't impact as much as subtimings. Nice video Btw, I really like tweaking memory, first thing I learned when I tried ryzen for the first time, and I'm really addicted now :P
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Little tip for people with low amount of money : you can find cheap micron Edie ( new ballistix kits) and still get pretty nice results on ryzen, they are worse for TRFC but good overall :). Primary timings will be a little worse too ( mainly TRCDRD) but they don't impact as much as subtimings. Nice video Btw, I really like tweaking memory, first thing I learned when I tried ryzen for the first time, and I'm really addicted now :P
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Giovanni
I bought some of the best memory available (GSkil FlareX 3200MHz 14 14 14 34 RAM) because I wanted to get the most out of my upgrades. I figured that I can 'later' purchase a 4950x at a reasonable price when DDR5 becomes standard. The most important was upgrade is PCIe 4. Is this a correct assumption? Thank you for all your tuning data - something that many other (i.e Me) can't/won't dedicate many hours to work on.
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I bought some of the best memory available (GSkil FlareX 3200MHz 14 14 14 34 RAM) because I wanted to get the most out of my upgrades. I figured that I can 'later' purchase a 4950x at a reasonable price when DDR5 becomes standard. The most important was upgrade is PCIe 4. Is this a correct assumption? Thank you for all your tuning data - something that many other (i.e Me) can't/won't dedicate many hours to work on.
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Jakub
10:40 That's a really good advice. My first reaction was, that I always have a tight budget and PC parts are expensive. Then I remembered, that every time I bought a PC I felt regret because I could've added 10% more and get some tweaking options, better VRMs, quieter cooling or better design. It always feels like a lot of money, but it's usually for couple of years, so it's not really noticeable. At least in my case.
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10:40 That's a really good advice. My first reaction was, that I always have a tight budget and PC parts are expensive. Then I remembered, that every time I bought a PC I felt regret because I could've added 10% more and get some tweaking options, better VRMs, quieter cooling or better design. It always feels like a lot of money, but it's usually for couple of years, so it's not really noticeable. At least in my case.
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