Systemd Haters Getting Their Panties In A Twist DistroTube
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Date: 2022-03-30
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Comments and reviews: 8
C41
I don't use systemd because i had an issue. I have a netbook and it doesn't have a keyboard with -lightening-. When Debian releases version 9 i can install it. When setup finishes it does reboot and show my desktop. But when i reboot it hangs. Why? Because the kbd_backlight service. I reinstalled os and when i saw desktop after first reboot i added a mask to kbd_backlight service and it worked perfectly. When Debian 10 came, i installed to my system but from now on it hangs during first reboot. So i couldn't add a mask to the service. Even netboot installation, even i consider don't install a desktop environment. So i decided what will i do and research it. Guess what. It was a systemd problem. Then i went to distrowatch.com's search page, i choose init system -not systemd- in filters. First try was Devuan. Guess what. There was no issue. I tried MX Linux. There was no issue. I tried Antix Linux. There was no issue. Shortly; I don't know and i can't understand the difference between systemd and others but this is an issue and it called -Systemd issue-. Is systemd is evil or bloatware? I don't know and i can't understand. I don't have that kind of knowledge but systemd not works for me. I'm happy with -Not Systemd- and reccomend to all of linux users as a simple/basic linux user. Note: Sorry for my bad English. I know it's not well and sorry about that : )
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I don't use systemd because i had an issue. I have a netbook and it doesn't have a keyboard with -lightening-. When Debian releases version 9 i can install it. When setup finishes it does reboot and show my desktop. But when i reboot it hangs. Why? Because the kbd_backlight service. I reinstalled os and when i saw desktop after first reboot i added a mask to kbd_backlight service and it worked perfectly. When Debian 10 came, i installed to my system but from now on it hangs during first reboot. So i couldn't add a mask to the service. Even netboot installation, even i consider don't install a desktop environment. So i decided what will i do and research it. Guess what. It was a systemd problem. Then i went to distrowatch.com's search page, i choose init system -not systemd- in filters. First try was Devuan. Guess what. There was no issue. I tried MX Linux. There was no issue. I tried Antix Linux. There was no issue. Shortly; I don't know and i can't understand the difference between systemd and others but this is an issue and it called -Systemd issue-. Is systemd is evil or bloatware? I don't know and i can't understand. I don't have that kind of knowledge but systemd not works for me. I'm happy with -Not Systemd- and reccomend to all of linux users as a simple/basic linux user. Note: Sorry for my bad English. I know it's not well and sorry about that : )
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pleggli
I love systemd.. Professionally we have moved to mostly docker based at the moment but running tens of thousands of services on hundreds of machines sytstemd is MUCH nicer to deal with that any other init system I have worked with on linux.
From a monitoring stand point it has much good observability and in general having a lot build in beats maintaining hundreds of error prone shell scripts or custom programs that most simpler init systems relies on which moves a lot of complexity into the services themselves and often produces nonstandard solutions which an operator has to learn instead of it being more obvious by looking at the systemd service definition file.
I maybe wouldn't run systemd on something like a TV or something that has very defined set of tasks it needs to perform or very resource constrained systems where I would use something like busybox and in general just use as little moving parts as possible.
For any kind of more general computing scenario I just see positives using sytstemd..
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I love systemd.. Professionally we have moved to mostly docker based at the moment but running tens of thousands of services on hundreds of machines sytstemd is MUCH nicer to deal with that any other init system I have worked with on linux.
From a monitoring stand point it has much good observability and in general having a lot build in beats maintaining hundreds of error prone shell scripts or custom programs that most simpler init systems relies on which moves a lot of complexity into the services themselves and often produces nonstandard solutions which an operator has to learn instead of it being more obvious by looking at the systemd service definition file.
I maybe wouldn't run systemd on something like a TV or something that has very defined set of tasks it needs to perform or very resource constrained systems where I would use something like busybox and in general just use as little moving parts as possible.
For any kind of more general computing scenario I just see positives using sytstemd..
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Peter
The Kernel is even less transparent than systemd - but part of the mess is the systemd integration into the kernel. The big danger for linux is systemd can bring copyrighted stuff into linux and make it no longer Open Software. We have seen this with Solaris, Oracle and Java. A similar danger is in Android were the guy who builds your system can decide when your device stops booting and forcing you to buy an update or buy new hardware because your device is no longer supported.The intransparent integration of kernel, wayland, audio and dbus has become an operating system that does its best to replace linux. My paranoia towards software ruled by a maniac and a company that reminds me of Oracle has let me to drop KDE, gnome, pulseaudio, wayland, dracut, plymouth and some other stuff. I have got a system with better sound and video than I used to have before. My choice is Slackware and Gentoo - not for the faint of heart.
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The Kernel is even less transparent than systemd - but part of the mess is the systemd integration into the kernel. The big danger for linux is systemd can bring copyrighted stuff into linux and make it no longer Open Software. We have seen this with Solaris, Oracle and Java. A similar danger is in Android were the guy who builds your system can decide when your device stops booting and forcing you to buy an update or buy new hardware because your device is no longer supported.The intransparent integration of kernel, wayland, audio and dbus has become an operating system that does its best to replace linux. My paranoia towards software ruled by a maniac and a company that reminds me of Oracle has let me to drop KDE, gnome, pulseaudio, wayland, dracut, plymouth and some other stuff. I have got a system with better sound and video than I used to have before. My choice is Slackware and Gentoo - not for the faint of heart.
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Ill
I am one of the haters) and here are my personal negative experience aspects of using systemd:
1. I don't know where all of you reviewers get 'fast boot times', it's slow. after I switched to runit I was impressed how fast my pc can boot and shut down)
2. Speaking of shutdowns - sometimes systemd just hangs somewhere in shutdown process, firing keepalive timers for various daemons and you should wait for them to expire
3. Log files are not text and accessed via journalctl. No easy way to handle them (as far as I'm aware).
4. I remember having issues dealing with users' unit files under superuser, working remotely, but that might be my lack of knowledge.
That's quite first cons that come to my mind.
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I am one of the haters) and here are my personal negative experience aspects of using systemd:
1. I don't know where all of you reviewers get 'fast boot times', it's slow. after I switched to runit I was impressed how fast my pc can boot and shut down)
2. Speaking of shutdowns - sometimes systemd just hangs somewhere in shutdown process, firing keepalive timers for various daemons and you should wait for them to expire
3. Log files are not text and accessed via journalctl. No easy way to handle them (as far as I'm aware).
4. I remember having issues dealing with users' unit files under superuser, working remotely, but that might be my lack of knowledge.
That's quite first cons that come to my mind.
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Name
Watched the video in its entirety and I find absolutely NO technical arguments in your uttering. You need to educate yourself well on this topic before even considering to make a video or saying even a word about it.
All the arguments I've read against systemd, on the other hand, are very logical and provide good rationales for why they take that stance. Systemd does not follow good esign philosophy and that matters. Unlike what you say in this video, the hate for systemd is NOT cos it's trendy, hip, or cool to do so. Neither is it cos of mob mentality. You are applying wrong concepts in a wrong place, in a wrong way, and towards a wrong purpose.
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Watched the video in its entirety and I find absolutely NO technical arguments in your uttering. You need to educate yourself well on this topic before even considering to make a video or saying even a word about it.
All the arguments I've read against systemd, on the other hand, are very logical and provide good rationales for why they take that stance. Systemd does not follow good esign philosophy and that matters. Unlike what you say in this video, the hate for systemd is NOT cos it's trendy, hip, or cool to do so. Neither is it cos of mob mentality. You are applying wrong concepts in a wrong place, in a wrong way, and towards a wrong purpose.
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Schpankme
You've talked me into excepting SYSTEMD and Companies in my pants, erra User Space and Server Space (thanks Red Hat)
I'll bend over backwards for Companies when non-OEM parts brick my system during Software Updates
I'll service those Big Companies who disable or throttle my system just to get me to buy a shinny new one
I'll spread my legs for UEFI BIOS forced on me through purchasing Motherboards
I'll squeal like a pig for INTEL CPU's and their built in back doors
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You've talked me into excepting SYSTEMD and Companies in my pants, erra User Space and Server Space (thanks Red Hat)
I'll bend over backwards for Companies when non-OEM parts brick my system during Software Updates
I'll service those Big Companies who disable or throttle my system just to get me to buy a shinny new one
I'll spread my legs for UEFI BIOS forced on me through purchasing Motherboards
I'll squeal like a pig for INTEL CPU's and their built in back doors
reply
Yori
I could don't care much for the system d meme, I switched for one reason. I had lots of issued with shutdown & startups hanging with my desktop. I never had any issues with system d on any other hardware. But on this desktop I ended up going with void. I found out that the runit init system is kinda neat neat. I like the idea of using links manage init process. But I do miss some system d feature not enought to go back but some of it was nice
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I could don't care much for the system d meme, I switched for one reason. I had lots of issued with shutdown & startups hanging with my desktop. I never had any issues with system d on any other hardware. But on this desktop I ended up going with void. I found out that the runit init system is kinda neat neat. I like the idea of using links manage init process. But I do miss some system d feature not enought to go back but some of it was nice
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Andrew
I like systemd. In the beginning it was complete shit and it conflicted with init programs but after 4 years of it being standard it has got good. the service files are much better than rc.d and init scripts. To me systemd to init is like Wayland to X11. everyone likes the legacy stuff but the new programs like Systemd and Wayland have new features that will better suit newer systems and software
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I like systemd. In the beginning it was complete shit and it conflicted with init programs but after 4 years of it being standard it has got good. the service files are much better than rc.d and init scripts. To me systemd to init is like Wayland to X11. everyone likes the legacy stuff but the new programs like Systemd and Wayland have new features that will better suit newer systems and software
reply
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