Intel 9000 series leak, custom RTX 2080 performance, when is a deal a deal? - The Full Nerd Ep. 69
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
I. T
Nice discussion guys! I have to agree with Brad, about where we stand with some of the big tech giants. He was talking about Intel and possible segregation of its product line. In my opinion I agree with that line of thought, it-s the same sort of issue with the RTX graphic cards, for example by adding some professional ray tracing tech into a gaming GPU then Nvidia increases the price, knowing that they will play on the psyche of gamers who always -need or want- the latest tech no matter what the price. Are we seeing this with Intel. by introducing a 9000 series but upping the price they are playing on the -gamer community- who will buy this thinking and hoping they have something better than the 8700k hmmm food for thought. We live in interesting times just now, with a great deal of price, performance, and profit being the mainstay of current tech. It-s a tough environment to compete in and Intel obviously want to compete with AMD, but I just see the price of new tech extravagantly increased for the average gamer. If you go down the 4k gaming route, then including the price of your monitor then we are talking 6000 pounds / dollars! for a system with best CPU, GPU, RAM, case, keyboard and mouse etc, ! truly expensive. Tech always changes over the years, I know, and these companies strive to give us an amazing product, but never have I seen such pricey! tech being offered and companies expecting we will buy it. We all have a choice, sure you can build a cheaper gaming system but the temptation is to stretch yourself sometimes with buying a product priced differently. It seems unfair to drive up those price points with all this new tech, of course you have to pay for development costs etc, but I see a different psychology nowadays. It seems that intense consumerism is more far reaching than ever and only people with the extra cash can afford it.
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Nice discussion guys! I have to agree with Brad, about where we stand with some of the big tech giants. He was talking about Intel and possible segregation of its product line. In my opinion I agree with that line of thought, it-s the same sort of issue with the RTX graphic cards, for example by adding some professional ray tracing tech into a gaming GPU then Nvidia increases the price, knowing that they will play on the psyche of gamers who always -need or want- the latest tech no matter what the price. Are we seeing this with Intel. by introducing a 9000 series but upping the price they are playing on the -gamer community- who will buy this thinking and hoping they have something better than the 8700k hmmm food for thought. We live in interesting times just now, with a great deal of price, performance, and profit being the mainstay of current tech. It-s a tough environment to compete in and Intel obviously want to compete with AMD, but I just see the price of new tech extravagantly increased for the average gamer. If you go down the 4k gaming route, then including the price of your monitor then we are talking 6000 pounds / dollars! for a system with best CPU, GPU, RAM, case, keyboard and mouse etc, ! truly expensive. Tech always changes over the years, I know, and these companies strive to give us an amazing product, but never have I seen such pricey! tech being offered and companies expecting we will buy it. We all have a choice, sure you can build a cheaper gaming system but the temptation is to stretch yourself sometimes with buying a product priced differently. It seems unfair to drive up those price points with all this new tech, of course you have to pay for development costs etc, but I see a different psychology nowadays. It seems that intense consumerism is more far reaching than ever and only people with the extra cash can afford it.
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Game
I wonder if those power limits for the RTX cards are because Nvidia is expecting dlss and Ray tracing to be a thing and if you have your card overclock too much they don't want you to burn out the card when it starts kicking in doing the ray tracing and stuff like that. On another note: I would not buy a 1080ti over a RTX 2080. Simply because you're buying older technology without the features of the newer technology. And even if you did not buy it for the features the RTX 2080 has the ddr6 and just newer parts in general. So I am of the same mindset as Gordon to buy a new part over an older part even if they perform similarly. But the newer features is a no-brainer issue. I just don't see any reason to go out and buy a 1080ti when I come by and RTX 2080 regardless of whether it's a little bit more expensive. And I'm sure that Nvidia somewhere along the line will address to power limit because they kept saying that the cards can be highly overclocked. so maybe in the manufacturing process somebody didn't do something right which is causing the power to be limited? Otherwise I just think that if they did limit it on purpose it's because of the other tensor cores and things that are built into the card that would obviously overheat if there were being used in highly overclock card. Of course that's just speculation from me because I really don't know how they're built from the inside out. I would love to have the 2080ti strix model but I don't know if it's going to sit in my computer case. I may have to just build a whole new computer with new stuff all around.
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I wonder if those power limits for the RTX cards are because Nvidia is expecting dlss and Ray tracing to be a thing and if you have your card overclock too much they don't want you to burn out the card when it starts kicking in doing the ray tracing and stuff like that. On another note: I would not buy a 1080ti over a RTX 2080. Simply because you're buying older technology without the features of the newer technology. And even if you did not buy it for the features the RTX 2080 has the ddr6 and just newer parts in general. So I am of the same mindset as Gordon to buy a new part over an older part even if they perform similarly. But the newer features is a no-brainer issue. I just don't see any reason to go out and buy a 1080ti when I come by and RTX 2080 regardless of whether it's a little bit more expensive. And I'm sure that Nvidia somewhere along the line will address to power limit because they kept saying that the cards can be highly overclocked. so maybe in the manufacturing process somebody didn't do something right which is causing the power to be limited? Otherwise I just think that if they did limit it on purpose it's because of the other tensor cores and things that are built into the card that would obviously overheat if there were being used in highly overclock card. Of course that's just speculation from me because I really don't know how they're built from the inside out. I would love to have the 2080ti strix model but I don't know if it's going to sit in my computer case. I may have to just build a whole new computer with new stuff all around.
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Game
I have an off-topic question and I'm not sure if anyone's going to answer but does anyone really think that AMD is going to do anything fantastic with their video cards even against the RTX series? I mean I keep hearing about raw power is what people want and not features. But features is implemented like dlss will actually improve gameplay. I like raw power too but I also like having a lot of features built into the video card so that I don't have to put so much on my CPU which isn't a bad one. I don't really have to upgrade right now but it would be nice to get an RTX 2080ti if I can get my hands on one rather than wait again now for AMD to bring out their video cards next year. I really don't think it will be worth investing in their refresh series coming up in October whatever it is. Even though they might be better than what they had before. I would rather invest in new tech rather than old. unfortunately I haven't been able to find too much information on the AMD upcoming series and its performance. This is one of those times where it would be advantageous for AMD to do that so that those who are up in the air about upgrading can make an earlier decision to wait for there cards. Although in the past I haven't been happy with AMD and its drivers. Sorry for grammar misspelling. I am on my mobile talking so it just corrects things on its own. Thank you anyone for any information regarding this topic. -
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I have an off-topic question and I'm not sure if anyone's going to answer but does anyone really think that AMD is going to do anything fantastic with their video cards even against the RTX series? I mean I keep hearing about raw power is what people want and not features. But features is implemented like dlss will actually improve gameplay. I like raw power too but I also like having a lot of features built into the video card so that I don't have to put so much on my CPU which isn't a bad one. I don't really have to upgrade right now but it would be nice to get an RTX 2080ti if I can get my hands on one rather than wait again now for AMD to bring out their video cards next year. I really don't think it will be worth investing in their refresh series coming up in October whatever it is. Even though they might be better than what they had before. I would rather invest in new tech rather than old. unfortunately I haven't been able to find too much information on the AMD upcoming series and its performance. This is one of those times where it would be advantageous for AMD to do that so that those who are up in the air about upgrading can make an earlier decision to wait for there cards. Although in the past I haven't been happy with AMD and its drivers. Sorry for grammar misspelling. I am on my mobile talking so it just corrects things on its own. Thank you anyone for any information regarding this topic. -
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TheDarthTux
LOL! 3% performance boost going after market on RTX2080(ti? Really beginning to think Nvidia overclocking the FE edition out of the box was to contain prices so you don't end up with another mining price grab by retailers, unlike people complaining about pricing believe. If retailers push prices up too high, then people can buy the cards directly from Nvidia at founders edition MSRP and they are already factory overclocked. The actual reference cards (the ones no one believes will be sold) also can't be overpriced beyond the Founders Edition because they are not factory overclocked and possibly lower spec. If accurate this is a brilliant move by Nvidia!
Even during the mining price hike by retailers, Nvidia sold at MSRP, the only problem was availability. The arguments reviewers and others were making about supply and demand pushing prices up for that reason simply made no sense. AIB partners also allegedly didn't benefit from the huge markups retailers placed on the GPUs
i for one applaud Nvidia for what they have done here and not only hope they continue with this pricing strategy, but also that AMD too start selling their GPUs directly as well.
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LOL! 3% performance boost going after market on RTX2080(ti? Really beginning to think Nvidia overclocking the FE edition out of the box was to contain prices so you don't end up with another mining price grab by retailers, unlike people complaining about pricing believe. If retailers push prices up too high, then people can buy the cards directly from Nvidia at founders edition MSRP and they are already factory overclocked. The actual reference cards (the ones no one believes will be sold) also can't be overpriced beyond the Founders Edition because they are not factory overclocked and possibly lower spec. If accurate this is a brilliant move by Nvidia!
Even during the mining price hike by retailers, Nvidia sold at MSRP, the only problem was availability. The arguments reviewers and others were making about supply and demand pushing prices up for that reason simply made no sense. AIB partners also allegedly didn't benefit from the huge markups retailers placed on the GPUs
i for one applaud Nvidia for what they have done here and not only hope they continue with this pricing strategy, but also that AMD too start selling their GPUs directly as well.
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bob
i dont think it will be 500. maybe 480 at launch and then after 3-4 months 430. just like the 8700k was 380 at launch and then 330 a few months later. after a couple months the prices will be the same as the 8th gen with the i9 being about 430 maybe.
i think whenever they go to the next process shrink they will make the current i9 into the next i7. i would wait till then.
the loss of the threads wont matter as much as people think. the 9700k will be faster in all things wait and see. when the 8700k is loaded up on all threads that means that 2 program threads are fighting for resources on one core. not a problem on the 9700k. they will be equal with a slight edge to the 9700k.
games arent gonna be able to max out an 8700k or 2700x for a long time so need to buy any of these 9th gen chips if you already have this gen unless you really want a high end streaming system or a gaming\production systen and you havent already bought the 2700x then the i9 would be worth looking at. if you dont have something this gen then eihte r9700k or 8700k whichever is cheaper. then in a few years you can upgrade to a used i9 maybe
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i dont think it will be 500. maybe 480 at launch and then after 3-4 months 430. just like the 8700k was 380 at launch and then 330 a few months later. after a couple months the prices will be the same as the 8th gen with the i9 being about 430 maybe.
i think whenever they go to the next process shrink they will make the current i9 into the next i7. i would wait till then.
the loss of the threads wont matter as much as people think. the 9700k will be faster in all things wait and see. when the 8700k is loaded up on all threads that means that 2 program threads are fighting for resources on one core. not a problem on the 9700k. they will be equal with a slight edge to the 9700k.
games arent gonna be able to max out an 8700k or 2700x for a long time so need to buy any of these 9th gen chips if you already have this gen unless you really want a high end streaming system or a gaming\production systen and you havent already bought the 2700x then the i9 would be worth looking at. if you dont have something this gen then eihte r9700k or 8700k whichever is cheaper. then in a few years you can upgrade to a used i9 maybe
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Tony
Only a very few directors are camera ops themselves. Traditionally cinematographers work with lights and set up the shot mainly. Camera ops work the cameras along with AC's. The director does create the shot list and informs the cinematographer of his vision. Kubrick is a great example of a director with a photography background. Janusz Kaminski( Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan) is a good example of a cinematographer that only works with lights. :) Directors are not just figure heads and its their vision and they way they get the most out of talent in a scene. You can have the best production crew but if your talent can't be directed, your film will fail. Story is king and its the directors job to envision and portray it.
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Only a very few directors are camera ops themselves. Traditionally cinematographers work with lights and set up the shot mainly. Camera ops work the cameras along with AC's. The director does create the shot list and informs the cinematographer of his vision. Kubrick is a great example of a director with a photography background. Janusz Kaminski( Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan) is a good example of a cinematographer that only works with lights. :) Directors are not just figure heads and its their vision and they way they get the most out of talent in a scene. You can have the best production crew but if your talent can't be directed, your film will fail. Story is king and its the directors job to envision and portray it.
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BoredErica
Intel could take out HT or just fail to up the core count, or fail to lower the price (or increase the price. But people have loss aversion. I think 8c 8t is as good as 6c 12t and better for tasks that use 8 cores or less (more cache. Chess also benefits more from real cores disproportionately against HT even today.
1080ti. maybe 100mhz max difference between an overpriced top end card compared to FE. I am skeptical that air card could ever be as quiet as even AIO + bracket. It's just so incredibly effective for GPU. Temps made a decent different with Pascal. less power usage, more clock bins.
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Intel could take out HT or just fail to up the core count, or fail to lower the price (or increase the price. But people have loss aversion. I think 8c 8t is as good as 6c 12t and better for tasks that use 8 cores or less (more cache. Chess also benefits more from real cores disproportionately against HT even today.
1080ti. maybe 100mhz max difference between an overpriced top end card compared to FE. I am skeptical that air card could ever be as quiet as even AIO + bracket. It's just so incredibly effective for GPU. Temps made a decent different with Pascal. less power usage, more clock bins.
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Giovanni
Still can't beat the prices of AMD, and that extra couple hundred can go to the ram or GPU. If you look at income data there are less people with readily 'available' resources to afford 'premium' luxury items- unless they are 'booking it up' through long term finance. Long term finance is a stopgap measure to prop up a business which will fail unless it can balance the budget in the long term. The existence of PC business is the concern. AMD is arguably looking after the PC market. e. g. an r7 1700 for $250? - with functional cooler.
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Still can't beat the prices of AMD, and that extra couple hundred can go to the ram or GPU. If you look at income data there are less people with readily 'available' resources to afford 'premium' luxury items- unless they are 'booking it up' through long term finance. Long term finance is a stopgap measure to prop up a business which will fail unless it can balance the budget in the long term. The existence of PC business is the concern. AMD is arguably looking after the PC market. e. g. an r7 1700 for $250? - with functional cooler.
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theexmann
So I just came across this little tidbit which might explain why Intel is eliminating hyperthreading on upcoming chips. -Krewell noted that Intel-s patch for Foreshadow shuts down the function called hyperthreading in its server chips, resulting in a huge performance hit. - So could it be that the reason Intel is getting rid of hyperthreading is to -fix- their Foreshadow issue? Interesting.
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So I just came across this little tidbit which might explain why Intel is eliminating hyperthreading on upcoming chips. -Krewell noted that Intel-s patch for Foreshadow shuts down the function called hyperthreading in its server chips, resulting in a huge performance hit. - So could it be that the reason Intel is getting rid of hyperthreading is to -fix- their Foreshadow issue? Interesting.
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Game
The RTX cards with the Shroud with one fan at least from some of my research looking for any available cards are being used for commercial purposes. I mean I guess anybody can buy them but they're seemingly existing for commercial purposes. Gamers are the ones that are going to really need more cooling if they're going to be gaming in 4k you know ultra settings.
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The RTX cards with the Shroud with one fan at least from some of my research looking for any available cards are being used for commercial purposes. I mean I guess anybody can buy them but they're seemingly existing for commercial purposes. Gamers are the ones that are going to really need more cooling if they're going to be gaming in 4k you know ultra settings.
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