FidelityFX Super Resolution Deep Dive With AMD - The Full Nerd Special Edition
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
magottyk
My biggest issue with DLSS aside from the hype to sell oversized (justifying the overpriced) silicon with tensor cores, is that it is primarily a proprietary hardware feature, not a gaming feature. FSR is an open gaming software feature and a completely different thing to DLSS though both are solutions for advanced upscaling.
While many consider FSR to be AMD's competitor to DLSS, the fact that it is to a large degree hardware agnostic makes it not a competitor but an alternative, especially given that DLSS capable GPU's can also run it, you don't have to buy a specific architecture to get the benefit. DLSS cannot be considered an alternative upscaler as it's limited to specialised hardware. It's not an alternative if you don't have the specific hardware.
Even if DLSS has a quality advantage for lower resolution upscaling, it's rather pointless given that the only cards capable of DLSS are already quite powerful and don't currently need to upscale from low resolutions to make a game playable. The only advantage DLSS has is IQ from low resolutions, everything else FSR seems to have the advantage for the wider market especially as it's basically a free performance gift to all gamers in any game that adopts it and many studio's would do well to reinvigorate some of their older games with a retrofit of fidelityFX and generate some interest again. Doom at 1080p 60 with FSR quality on the IGP of a 2200G, how many games could be made playable for just a little bit of work by the developers to even users of intel's very ordinary IGP in skylake and later, that's a lot of laptops that could finally run 1080p gaming.
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My biggest issue with DLSS aside from the hype to sell oversized (justifying the overpriced) silicon with tensor cores, is that it is primarily a proprietary hardware feature, not a gaming feature. FSR is an open gaming software feature and a completely different thing to DLSS though both are solutions for advanced upscaling.
While many consider FSR to be AMD's competitor to DLSS, the fact that it is to a large degree hardware agnostic makes it not a competitor but an alternative, especially given that DLSS capable GPU's can also run it, you don't have to buy a specific architecture to get the benefit. DLSS cannot be considered an alternative upscaler as it's limited to specialised hardware. It's not an alternative if you don't have the specific hardware.
Even if DLSS has a quality advantage for lower resolution upscaling, it's rather pointless given that the only cards capable of DLSS are already quite powerful and don't currently need to upscale from low resolutions to make a game playable. The only advantage DLSS has is IQ from low resolutions, everything else FSR seems to have the advantage for the wider market especially as it's basically a free performance gift to all gamers in any game that adopts it and many studio's would do well to reinvigorate some of their older games with a retrofit of fidelityFX and generate some interest again. Doom at 1080p 60 with FSR quality on the IGP of a 2200G, how many games could be made playable for just a little bit of work by the developers to even users of intel's very ordinary IGP in skylake and later, that's a lot of laptops that could finally run 1080p gaming.
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itech
No offense but you are in the industry so you guys don't want to step on toes but I as a consumer of these content see things differently, I watch the digital foundry and gamers Nexus FSR coverage and they are generally negative on AMD.
Over at digital foundry the guy that was reviewing FSR in the last thier video basically express a face of disgust(before his hands on) when FSR was brought up this was the same guy that did the review for FSR.
So while you in the industry thinks that every Tech tuber is neutral or not really in it for one company but I think that digital foundry sway green. I can point to the fact that they had the exclusive on the RTX 3080, showing cherry picked benchmark comparing previous generation and current generation using percentages not real fps. It was Nvidia talking point, good for them to grab that bag of sponsor cash. Then when the RX 6800 series came out it was weeks before they reviewed it while everyone else already did.
So it's admirable that you guys think that these outlets are not bias but clearly their content proved otherwise I think if you had an opportunity to check their videos and their tone and the wording it is clearly that Nvidia comes out clean everytime
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No offense but you are in the industry so you guys don't want to step on toes but I as a consumer of these content see things differently, I watch the digital foundry and gamers Nexus FSR coverage and they are generally negative on AMD.
Over at digital foundry the guy that was reviewing FSR in the last thier video basically express a face of disgust(before his hands on) when FSR was brought up this was the same guy that did the review for FSR.
So while you in the industry thinks that every Tech tuber is neutral or not really in it for one company but I think that digital foundry sway green. I can point to the fact that they had the exclusive on the RTX 3080, showing cherry picked benchmark comparing previous generation and current generation using percentages not real fps. It was Nvidia talking point, good for them to grab that bag of sponsor cash. Then when the RX 6800 series came out it was weeks before they reviewed it while everyone else already did.
So it's admirable that you guys think that these outlets are not bias but clearly their content proved otherwise I think if you had an opportunity to check their videos and their tone and the wording it is clearly that Nvidia comes out clean everytime
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Game
Why do people keep saying that people pay extra for Ray tracing and dlss? Are you referring to the developers or the GPU owners? The Nvidia cards in the AMD cards are essentially the same price but AMD has no hardware Ray tracing or dlss but Nvidia does. So wouldn't that mean you're getting more for the same price versus AMD? No one's paying extra. It just is what it is. You buy a car and it comes with what it comes with. Some come with more stuff some come with less. If you get more stuff with your car versus the other one then that is a good thing. It is weird how people think today or maybe it's just all about PR. Play with words. Or even deception. It is funny that one spot where he said you want to dumb down. When that's exactly what it is. You're a dumbing down to get FPS. I would think anyone would be able to make an algorithm to make a game look better. In fact I think the modding community has been doing that for many years.
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Why do people keep saying that people pay extra for Ray tracing and dlss? Are you referring to the developers or the GPU owners? The Nvidia cards in the AMD cards are essentially the same price but AMD has no hardware Ray tracing or dlss but Nvidia does. So wouldn't that mean you're getting more for the same price versus AMD? No one's paying extra. It just is what it is. You buy a car and it comes with what it comes with. Some come with more stuff some come with less. If you get more stuff with your car versus the other one then that is a good thing. It is weird how people think today or maybe it's just all about PR. Play with words. Or even deception. It is funny that one spot where he said you want to dumb down. When that's exactly what it is. You're a dumbing down to get FPS. I would think anyone would be able to make an algorithm to make a game look better. In fact I think the modding community has been doing that for many years.
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Eternalduoae
Good interview, guys! The problem i have with this solution is that it doesn't help the lower resolutions and those running on older, weaker hardware.
I. e. should you be running modern games on a 1440p or 4k screen on a GTX 1060 or RX 470/480?
I tested the feature on The Riftbreaker demo last night at 1080p (my monitor's resolution) and it was indistinguishable from 75% resolution scaling - really muddy and blurry. I also saw a loss of dark areas/ colours, effectively washing out the image.
In comparison, the only game i can remember enabling DLSS in was Cyberpunk and that was almost the same as native 1080p, with the exception of some visual artifacts (e. g. inventory screen.
My point here is that many people are saying it will help people who can't upgrade. I'm not sure i see that argument as anything other than theoretical.
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Good interview, guys! The problem i have with this solution is that it doesn't help the lower resolutions and those running on older, weaker hardware.
I. e. should you be running modern games on a 1440p or 4k screen on a GTX 1060 or RX 470/480?
I tested the feature on The Riftbreaker demo last night at 1080p (my monitor's resolution) and it was indistinguishable from 75% resolution scaling - really muddy and blurry. I also saw a loss of dark areas/ colours, effectively washing out the image.
In comparison, the only game i can remember enabling DLSS in was Cyberpunk and that was almost the same as native 1080p, with the exception of some visual artifacts (e. g. inventory screen.
My point here is that many people are saying it will help people who can't upgrade. I'm not sure i see that argument as anything other than theoretical.
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Mike
In analysis of FSR and DLSS compared to native res: people have to consider that if I can pick up a 30-70% performance with next to no visible difference that holds a lot of value. A 30% increase in performance holds a $300-1500 value depending on which tier of card you are starting with. A 3080 compared to a 3080 ti is a 10% performance increase for $500 dollars MSRP. If you can pick up that kind of gain with a cleaver upscaling solution, you just bumped yourself up for nothing.
Or you take a card that couldn't play at certain settings and now are 60fps no problem.
We have hit a wall where it is becoming too expensive to do raw hardware brute force, it's time to get intelligent with what we are rendering.
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In analysis of FSR and DLSS compared to native res: people have to consider that if I can pick up a 30-70% performance with next to no visible difference that holds a lot of value. A 30% increase in performance holds a $300-1500 value depending on which tier of card you are starting with. A 3080 compared to a 3080 ti is a 10% performance increase for $500 dollars MSRP. If you can pick up that kind of gain with a cleaver upscaling solution, you just bumped yourself up for nothing.
Or you take a card that couldn't play at certain settings and now are 60fps no problem.
We have hit a wall where it is becoming too expensive to do raw hardware brute force, it's time to get intelligent with what we are rendering.
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digitalsanpedro
I think Gordon made a really good point, this isn't for people with 6800xt's or 3080s, and I would argue largely that DLSS isn't so much either. It's much more valuable to someone with low end card that now can play games they once could, or someone who can now turn up a bunch of settings in exchange for softness. Actually, Hardware Canucks had a good example at the end of their FSR video which really drove home that.
I don't know, maybe DLSS is more focused in marketing on making RT playable on higher end set-ups, which just goes to show how demanding RT is.
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I think Gordon made a really good point, this isn't for people with 6800xt's or 3080s, and I would argue largely that DLSS isn't so much either. It's much more valuable to someone with low end card that now can play games they once could, or someone who can now turn up a bunch of settings in exchange for softness. Actually, Hardware Canucks had a good example at the end of their FSR video which really drove home that.
I don't know, maybe DLSS is more focused in marketing on making RT playable on higher end set-ups, which just goes to show how demanding RT is.
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Rist
FSR support for streaming and for mobile are two area's that I'm really excited to see what happens going forward. Netflix doing FSR upscale on the render would be amazing.
I don't see why Microsoft couldn't even bake in support for Windows retroactively for the desktop to upscale the entire desktop screen GUI and any programs run in windowed mode or windows boarderless and full screen windowed mode.
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FSR support for streaming and for mobile are two area's that I'm really excited to see what happens going forward. Netflix doing FSR upscale on the render would be amazing.
I don't see why Microsoft couldn't even bake in support for Windows retroactively for the desktop to upscale the entire desktop screen GUI and any programs run in windowed mode or windows boarderless and full screen windowed mode.
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Robert
Downloaded Rift Breaker Demo. FSR Ultra Quality at 1440p all max settings with RT and getting 120fps locked on my 6800, and I cannot tell the difference when in a fight, and barely tell the difference when not in a fight. It's like playing at 95% resolution and getting 20% more performancr. The game is friggin sweet too.
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Downloaded Rift Breaker Demo. FSR Ultra Quality at 1440p all max settings with RT and getting 120fps locked on my 6800, and I cannot tell the difference when in a fight, and barely tell the difference when not in a fight. It's like playing at 95% resolution and getting 20% more performancr. The game is friggin sweet too.
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Eko
Nobody has said it but here goes: This FSR feature will help immensely when etherium miners sell their RX 500. RX 5000 series GPU into the market when they give up. The gamers will benefit from cheap GPU albeit last gen and still able to play future games with FSR comfortably.
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Nobody has said it but here goes: This FSR feature will help immensely when etherium miners sell their RX 500. RX 5000 series GPU into the market when they give up. The gamers will benefit from cheap GPU albeit last gen and still able to play future games with FSR comfortably.
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Larry
Congratulations to my man Keith. He has been the face of WCCF Tech for a while. His practical approach to consumerism and technological relevance very much deserve a larger platform. I'm glad to hear he's coming aboard.
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Congratulations to my man Keith. He has been the face of WCCF Tech for a while. His practical approach to consumerism and technological relevance very much deserve a larger platform. I'm glad to hear he's coming aboard.
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