Should Cities Ban Drive Thrus
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Date: 2024-10-17
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Comments and reviews: 20
jspihlman
I'm curious to know, in regards to the drive through vs. eating inside issue, where that stands. I know a lot of restaurants that just straight up closed their dining rooms during the pandemic and have not reopened them, and even the ones that have, in my experience, at least in my area, I see less people eating inside than before. Now instead of several families, I may see one or two people eating inside. Most have just come in to take their food to go because the drive through is too busy. And I'm guilty of this too. I can't remember the last time I ate inside at a fast food restaurant. I wonder how much of this is just a cultural sea change to ordering to go, drive throughs, and curbside pick up and away from eating inside and staying awhile. Some of it certainly is a cost savings for the restaurant (e. g. if no one is eating inside, they don't need a dedicated person doing cleaning of tables, floors, etc) and could lead to much smaller footprints of fast food restaurants if indoor seating is eliminated completely. It does feel like a loss though of those third spaces as you say. I have fond memories of eating indoors at fast food restaurants as a kid and things like the McDonald's Playplace.
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I'm curious to know, in regards to the drive through vs. eating inside issue, where that stands. I know a lot of restaurants that just straight up closed their dining rooms during the pandemic and have not reopened them, and even the ones that have, in my experience, at least in my area, I see less people eating inside than before. Now instead of several families, I may see one or two people eating inside. Most have just come in to take their food to go because the drive through is too busy. And I'm guilty of this too. I can't remember the last time I ate inside at a fast food restaurant. I wonder how much of this is just a cultural sea change to ordering to go, drive throughs, and curbside pick up and away from eating inside and staying awhile. Some of it certainly is a cost savings for the restaurant (e. g. if no one is eating inside, they don't need a dedicated person doing cleaning of tables, floors, etc) and could lead to much smaller footprints of fast food restaurants if indoor seating is eliminated completely. It does feel like a loss though of those third spaces as you say. I have fond memories of eating indoors at fast food restaurants as a kid and things like the McDonald's Playplace.
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lauren-b1h
If the choice is between waiting in the drive thru line and running into a fast food restaurant for a pick up order, I will choose the drive thru every time. Why Because with two kids under four there is no comparison on the level of difficulty of those two things. To go in, you have unbuckle both kids from carseats, carry one kid, hold the other's hand, potentially stand in line for a while, then grow an extra hand to carry the food and potentially also drinks. Then get back through the parking lot without getting hit by any cars. Then you have to get both kids buckled back into carseats. I initially got interested in urbanist content because I realized what a dream it would be with kids to live in a walkable place. But i dont actually live in a walkable place. So the idea of just getting rid of drive thrus when so much of our lives is by necessity lived in a car just doesn't resonate with me. Obviously, it would be more ideal to never go to fast food at all, but I don't live in the world of perfect meal planning and scheduling, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
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If the choice is between waiting in the drive thru line and running into a fast food restaurant for a pick up order, I will choose the drive thru every time. Why Because with two kids under four there is no comparison on the level of difficulty of those two things. To go in, you have unbuckle both kids from carseats, carry one kid, hold the other's hand, potentially stand in line for a while, then grow an extra hand to carry the food and potentially also drinks. Then get back through the parking lot without getting hit by any cars. Then you have to get both kids buckled back into carseats. I initially got interested in urbanist content because I realized what a dream it would be with kids to live in a walkable place. But i dont actually live in a walkable place. So the idea of just getting rid of drive thrus when so much of our lives is by necessity lived in a car just doesn't resonate with me. Obviously, it would be more ideal to never go to fast food at all, but I don't live in the world of perfect meal planning and scheduling, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
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caitcreates4247
There are many people that rely on drive thrus to be able to easily get food or beverages - it's an accessibility issue. Not only do disabled people exist, but there are other reasons why someone may not want to or be able to get out of their car to go into a restaurant and pick up their order. There are parents who have infants and young children in the car and it can be very inconvenient for one parent to spend 10 minutes just getting the kids in and out of their car seats, grabbing strollers, etc. just to grab food to bring home. If someone has an injury that limits their mobility, they may not be able to wrangle their crutches and carry a cup of hot coffee from the coffee shop to their car.
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There are many people that rely on drive thrus to be able to easily get food or beverages - it's an accessibility issue. Not only do disabled people exist, but there are other reasons why someone may not want to or be able to get out of their car to go into a restaurant and pick up their order. There are parents who have infants and young children in the car and it can be very inconvenient for one parent to spend 10 minutes just getting the kids in and out of their car seats, grabbing strollers, etc. just to grab food to bring home. If someone has an injury that limits their mobility, they may not be able to wrangle their crutches and carry a cup of hot coffee from the coffee shop to their car.
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Zectifin
I know were all concerned with the elimination of 3rd spaces, but nobody is looking forward to eating inside a taco bell or mcdonalds. These aren't community 3rd spaces unless its next door to a college dorm.
I live in a city where it gets to be 117f regularly. If I have something in the car I don't want to melt, but I'm hungry and need something to eat while I'm out or on the way home I don't want to go inside and order and eat while my food/electronics I just bought get destroyed, I want to keep my car AC running and eat in the car or take it home.
I'm all for making things a more walkable city and I'm sure a ban is a good idea in some cities, but its not going to work for all of them.
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I know were all concerned with the elimination of 3rd spaces, but nobody is looking forward to eating inside a taco bell or mcdonalds. These aren't community 3rd spaces unless its next door to a college dorm.
I live in a city where it gets to be 117f regularly. If I have something in the car I don't want to melt, but I'm hungry and need something to eat while I'm out or on the way home I don't want to go inside and order and eat while my food/electronics I just bought get destroyed, I want to keep my car AC running and eat in the car or take it home.
I'm all for making things a more walkable city and I'm sure a ban is a good idea in some cities, but its not going to work for all of them.
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CarFreeSegnitz
Drive-thru’s Pick up the pace! There should be drive-by’s. Order through your smart phone or in-dash screen. Pick up is done by opening your passenger-side window and being in the curb-side lane so your order can be thrown in as you travel past at the speed limit.
I’d volunteer to do the promotion. Free give-aways. I’d throw free food into any car in the curb-side lane with the passenger window open. I’ll go a step further and throw food even if the window isn’t open. Heck, I won’t even wait for someone to hire me to promote their drive-by, I’ll just throw over-ripe fruit at passing cars.
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Drive-thru’s Pick up the pace! There should be drive-by’s. Order through your smart phone or in-dash screen. Pick up is done by opening your passenger-side window and being in the curb-side lane so your order can be thrown in as you travel past at the speed limit.
I’d volunteer to do the promotion. Free give-aways. I’d throw free food into any car in the curb-side lane with the passenger window open. I’ll go a step further and throw food even if the window isn’t open. Heck, I won’t even wait for someone to hire me to promote their drive-by, I’ll just throw over-ripe fruit at passing cars.
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AddieDirectsTV
Minneapolis used to have a Taco Bell that did not have a drive thru. I believe it was looted during the riots. It was never reopened. It seemed to benot convenient.
Also in MPLS, there was a BK that closed due to the owner issues. Another group wanted to open one in that same spot, however, they couldn’t get a special use to have a drive thru that was already existing on the building. So to my knowledge it never did reopen.
Interestingly, I know of a couple that were able to get that variance. The difference: they’re in industrial zoned areas of the city.
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Minneapolis used to have a Taco Bell that did not have a drive thru. I believe it was looted during the riots. It was never reopened. It seemed to benot convenient.
Also in MPLS, there was a BK that closed due to the owner issues. Another group wanted to open one in that same spot, however, they couldn’t get a special use to have a drive thru that was already existing on the building. So to my knowledge it never did reopen.
Interestingly, I know of a couple that were able to get that variance. The difference: they’re in industrial zoned areas of the city.
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AndrewMcColl
My local mall has a KFC in the corner of its main parking lot. When it reopened after our first big lockdown, the queue for the drive thru was do long it was impossible to actually park is large parts of the car park. On top of that, if the wind's blowing the right (wrong) way, you can't escape the KFC smell as you walk between car and mall. It's kinda genius marketing, but should also be bulldozed and moved somewhere else.
If you want to see it's position, look for Lynnmall in Auckland, NZ. KFC's in the north east corner.
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My local mall has a KFC in the corner of its main parking lot. When it reopened after our first big lockdown, the queue for the drive thru was do long it was impossible to actually park is large parts of the car park. On top of that, if the wind's blowing the right (wrong) way, you can't escape the KFC smell as you walk between car and mall. It's kinda genius marketing, but should also be bulldozed and moved somewhere else.
If you want to see it's position, look for Lynnmall in Auckland, NZ. KFC's in the north east corner.
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ZebraLens
I mentioned this in somebody's comment:
When I used to be a shift manager some years ago, we would prioritize the people that would walk in as a way to reward them for coming in, as it kept more workers employed and on the shift instead of only having one person handling the drive thru window.
Also, having more people inside the restaurant created a more inviting atmosphere and also the potential for a resale or people grabbing a little something extra on the way out (and extra up for drinks, bottled water, dessert etc)
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I mentioned this in somebody's comment:
When I used to be a shift manager some years ago, we would prioritize the people that would walk in as a way to reward them for coming in, as it kept more workers employed and on the shift instead of only having one person handling the drive thru window.
Also, having more people inside the restaurant created a more inviting atmosphere and also the potential for a resale or people grabbing a little something extra on the way out (and extra up for drinks, bottled water, dessert etc)
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jspihlman
I wonder if adding additional drive through lanes contributes to induced demand (e. g. one more lane) where it temporarily eases traffic, but then as people see the drive through looks less busy, they then start coming there more frequently and it just ends up getting bogged down again I'm sure there is a delta somewhere that it would plateau, but just from my own observations, the Chick-fil-a restaurants near me all have two drive through lanes, and at least one of them still causes traffic to back up onto the nearby roadway.
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I wonder if adding additional drive through lanes contributes to induced demand (e. g. one more lane) where it temporarily eases traffic, but then as people see the drive through looks less busy, they then start coming there more frequently and it just ends up getting bogged down again I'm sure there is a delta somewhere that it would plateau, but just from my own observations, the Chick-fil-a restaurants near me all have two drive through lanes, and at least one of them still causes traffic to back up onto the nearby roadway.
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stevieinselby
I've never understood the attraction of drive-thrus. Queueing at a counter in a fast food outlet is tedious enough, but queueing _in my car_ is a way worse experience, not to mention knowing how much petrol I'm burning through while waiting. And I don't want to eat fast food in my car and stink it out either. Go into to the building, and either get takeout and drive home or sit in the restaurant and eat it there. So much more efficient for all concerned.
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I've never understood the attraction of drive-thrus. Queueing at a counter in a fast food outlet is tedious enough, but queueing _in my car_ is a way worse experience, not to mention knowing how much petrol I'm burning through while waiting. And I don't want to eat fast food in my car and stink it out either. Go into to the building, and either get takeout and drive home or sit in the restaurant and eat it there. So much more efficient for all concerned.
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roelsch
I kind of respect the savviness of drive-thrus. 20 cars in a queue take up less space than 20 cars on parking spots, and that queue fits in much more awkward spaces, eg around buildings, which I assume comes in handy if building setbacks on all sides are mandatory. If the parking lot is too small, you can (as shown in the video) freeload some space on the roadway, even if on street parking is prohibited.
But yeah, lifestyle wise it's quite sad.
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I kind of respect the savviness of drive-thrus. 20 cars in a queue take up less space than 20 cars on parking spots, and that queue fits in much more awkward spaces, eg around buildings, which I assume comes in handy if building setbacks on all sides are mandatory. If the parking lot is too small, you can (as shown in the video) freeload some space on the roadway, even if on street parking is prohibited.
But yeah, lifestyle wise it's quite sad.
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baystated
A car on the lots takes up space no matter if the patron is in drive through, curb pickup, or inside eating. Sit down dining makes your car take up space on the property for around twenty minutes. The lunch rush in a car-area would need a massive parking lot, otherwise there would still be lines waiting on the street to get onto the property. Drive throughs are the fastest way to get customers off the lot and make room for the next customer.
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A car on the lots takes up space no matter if the patron is in drive through, curb pickup, or inside eating. Sit down dining makes your car take up space on the property for around twenty minutes. The lunch rush in a car-area would need a massive parking lot, otherwise there would still be lines waiting on the street to get onto the property. Drive throughs are the fastest way to get customers off the lot and make room for the next customer.
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brx8r
In addition to improving the drive thru they should make the dining area more appealing for families. Watch some 80s videos of mcDonalds when the dining room was packed, it was a lot of fun, it was culture, it was life! They could put in a roof-top area or something and incentivise using it. Instead of a traffic guard, hire an entertainer. Fun placemats, playground, all of that. Of course you need parking in car-centric areas.
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In addition to improving the drive thru they should make the dining area more appealing for families. Watch some 80s videos of mcDonalds when the dining room was packed, it was a lot of fun, it was culture, it was life! They could put in a roof-top area or something and incentivise using it. Instead of a traffic guard, hire an entertainer. Fun placemats, playground, all of that. Of course you need parking in car-centric areas.
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Pathilind
Excellent ideas. The bad thing is they don't work wherever lobbying (bribery) is legal and normal. There's so much established infrastructure and benefits that the major fast food restaurants get that its impossible to fight them on this. The visibility of the main fast food restaurants and the drive through give them such an edge over smaller businesses in car dependent communities, they're not letting that go without a fight
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Excellent ideas. The bad thing is they don't work wherever lobbying (bribery) is legal and normal. There's so much established infrastructure and benefits that the major fast food restaurants get that its impossible to fight them on this. The visibility of the main fast food restaurants and the drive through give them such an edge over smaller businesses in car dependent communities, they're not letting that go without a fight
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treefarm3288
An old but attractive and very popular two storey pub/small hotel in my small town in Queensland was destroyed by a tropical cyclone. It was in the central cross-street intersection opposite a park and supermarket. It stood a ruin for nearly a year, then was replaced by a small ugly drive-in hamburger place. It ruined the appearance and sociality of the corner. I'm unsure about the traffic aspect. Thanks for the video.
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An old but attractive and very popular two storey pub/small hotel in my small town in Queensland was destroyed by a tropical cyclone. It was in the central cross-street intersection opposite a park and supermarket. It stood a ruin for nearly a year, then was replaced by a small ugly drive-in hamburger place. It ruined the appearance and sociality of the corner. I'm unsure about the traffic aspect. Thanks for the video.
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dragofand
This is insane bro. I usually go to taco bell because they're the cheapest and a comfort food of sorts. I've pulled up to a taco bell multiple times, saw there were 5 cars in line and went somewhere else, or just parked and went inside. Who tf is waiting like 30 minutes just to get food that they'll have to drive home or back to work and have 5 minutes to scarf down Just sit down at a restaurant at this point.
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This is insane bro. I usually go to taco bell because they're the cheapest and a comfort food of sorts. I've pulled up to a taco bell multiple times, saw there were 5 cars in line and went somewhere else, or just parked and went inside. Who tf is waiting like 30 minutes just to get food that they'll have to drive home or back to work and have 5 minutes to scarf down Just sit down at a restaurant at this point.
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Quies8
As a European native, I’m amazed that people are willing to create traffic jams just to pick up junk food. The time they spend sitting in their massive SUVs could be used to prepare a wholesome, healthy, yet simple meal. Fast food chains should be viewed in the same light as the tobacco industry: harmful, antisocial businesses. The low entrance fee is a disguise for the addictive unhealthy food being served.
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As a European native, I’m amazed that people are willing to create traffic jams just to pick up junk food. The time they spend sitting in their massive SUVs could be used to prepare a wholesome, healthy, yet simple meal. Fast food chains should be viewed in the same light as the tobacco industry: harmful, antisocial businesses. The low entrance fee is a disguise for the addictive unhealthy food being served.
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worawatli8952
I like to eat in the restaurants, drive-thru only is so weird to me. It beat the point of going to a restaurant.
1. If I'm going out to eat out, why eat in the car and make a mess
2. If I want to get quick meal, getting in and eat inside is less stressful.
3. If I want to get take out to eat at home or work or give it to someone, maybe that's the only reason I would go into drive-thru.
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I like to eat in the restaurants, drive-thru only is so weird to me. It beat the point of going to a restaurant.
1. If I'm going out to eat out, why eat in the car and make a mess
2. If I want to get quick meal, getting in and eat inside is less stressful.
3. If I want to get take out to eat at home or work or give it to someone, maybe that's the only reason I would go into drive-thru.
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mjchua
the drive thru problem is another little thing showing that people now are getting less and less social interaction along with everything being digitalized such as ai and as simple getting everything delivered to your home. humans are naturally social creatures and need to interact with each other but we’re going in the wrong direction while most think we’re being more efficient
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the drive thru problem is another little thing showing that people now are getting less and less social interaction along with everything being digitalized such as ai and as simple getting everything delivered to your home. humans are naturally social creatures and need to interact with each other but we’re going in the wrong direction while most think we’re being more efficient
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Anihalas
Don't forget to mention the famous McShame, the shame brought by being seen by your neighbours coming home with the trash from the drive through and the following shame you need to feel when you throw it out of your car window whilst driving home. Dutch people are really ashamed of going through the drive through their trash is everywhere except in their home bins.
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Don't forget to mention the famous McShame, the shame brought by being seen by your neighbours coming home with the trash from the drive through and the following shame you need to feel when you throw it out of your car window whilst driving home. Dutch people are really ashamed of going through the drive through their trash is everywhere except in their home bins.
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