Savannah's mysterious historic plan
video description
Date: 2019-09-12
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 10
RyuuTenno
I would imagine, that he utilized ideas from multiple areas. Likely combining and working out the various plans as mentioned in the video. However, Rome & Greece were also known for having well built empires due to having great designs, and just as much as the U. S. is influenced by these two nations, it's not unlikely that he would've designed this layout without having considered the same influential roots. Though, not really all that well built for various things like building mixed use systems, I'm going to be testing it out in SimCity 4 to see how well this would work with it's particular limitations. I've got the newer SC game, but, 4 is better designed for it. I had the idea for some time, but, I lost track of the video, so it's taken me while to look at it. I've been through Savannah fairly recently even, and I do love it's basic design, though, I was unaware of how it was laid out, until watching this video after a quick trip to the beach, a couple months back. But, looking at this design, it's rather interesting, because, while playing through SC3K some years back, I had come up with a rather similar design. Larger zones, to allow for such things as parks and green spaces, so that it would help to boost land values, but, to also give the people places to relax in. And, just from that perspective, I feel that, it's likely Oglethorpe would have easily viewed the grid based pattern as a good start, but that it would still have needed adjustments to improve it into a more perfect design. The description of the lots mention that they were wider to prevent the spreading of fire, so, obviously he knew that there were many problems to consider. It's likely that such things as the central squares, and even the Trust lots, would have been set aside for such things as wells and such, to help reduce the damage of fire. However, while I love the grid based structure, I still rather like the, minor, chaotic mix of streets and roads, but, I feel that the 'unplanned' aspect, should be done rather sparingly, so as to compliment the grid, but, not be so complex, that it reduces the atmosphere of the city. Walkability is still rather important, and having close neighborhoods is what can help a city to prosper correctly.
reply
I would imagine, that he utilized ideas from multiple areas. Likely combining and working out the various plans as mentioned in the video. However, Rome & Greece were also known for having well built empires due to having great designs, and just as much as the U. S. is influenced by these two nations, it's not unlikely that he would've designed this layout without having considered the same influential roots. Though, not really all that well built for various things like building mixed use systems, I'm going to be testing it out in SimCity 4 to see how well this would work with it's particular limitations. I've got the newer SC game, but, 4 is better designed for it. I had the idea for some time, but, I lost track of the video, so it's taken me while to look at it. I've been through Savannah fairly recently even, and I do love it's basic design, though, I was unaware of how it was laid out, until watching this video after a quick trip to the beach, a couple months back. But, looking at this design, it's rather interesting, because, while playing through SC3K some years back, I had come up with a rather similar design. Larger zones, to allow for such things as parks and green spaces, so that it would help to boost land values, but, to also give the people places to relax in. And, just from that perspective, I feel that, it's likely Oglethorpe would have easily viewed the grid based pattern as a good start, but that it would still have needed adjustments to improve it into a more perfect design. The description of the lots mention that they were wider to prevent the spreading of fire, so, obviously he knew that there were many problems to consider. It's likely that such things as the central squares, and even the Trust lots, would have been set aside for such things as wells and such, to help reduce the damage of fire. However, while I love the grid based structure, I still rather like the, minor, chaotic mix of streets and roads, but, I feel that the 'unplanned' aspect, should be done rather sparingly, so as to compliment the grid, but, not be so complex, that it reduces the atmosphere of the city. Walkability is still rather important, and having close neighborhoods is what can help a city to prosper correctly.
reply
quarkwrok
About right I think but maybe not so new for the time. Reason 1 is part of the whole late 17th-early 18th century speculator's grid with Georgian square thing. Some of the new areas of London and elsewhere in Britain got this - Britain and British ideas/examples would obviously have been the principal inspiration for Oglethorpe (and the East Coast 'European colonists' who founded cities who were English except in relation to New Amsterdam, and he no doubt would have been familiar with philadelphia and Charleston. Reason 2 makes sense as Georgia was founded as both a debtor's colony and a military frontier province. Practical examples might not have existed, but town squares would have been known to be used for parades and assembly points for soldiers. I'd even go so far as to say the assumed idea of founding an English/British New World 'Citie' from scratch would assume some sort of Williamsburg/Philly grid and occasional squares thrown in. Reason 3 is obviously an immediate inspiration, but it too must go back to the other 2 reasons (military use of squares for a planned frontier colony, Charleston, New Haven etc as New World examples of grid/square patterns - planned examples by the Carolina proprietors, note the use of the term Margravate.
reply
About right I think but maybe not so new for the time. Reason 1 is part of the whole late 17th-early 18th century speculator's grid with Georgian square thing. Some of the new areas of London and elsewhere in Britain got this - Britain and British ideas/examples would obviously have been the principal inspiration for Oglethorpe (and the East Coast 'European colonists' who founded cities who were English except in relation to New Amsterdam, and he no doubt would have been familiar with philadelphia and Charleston. Reason 2 makes sense as Georgia was founded as both a debtor's colony and a military frontier province. Practical examples might not have existed, but town squares would have been known to be used for parades and assembly points for soldiers. I'd even go so far as to say the assumed idea of founding an English/British New World 'Citie' from scratch would assume some sort of Williamsburg/Philly grid and occasional squares thrown in. Reason 3 is obviously an immediate inspiration, but it too must go back to the other 2 reasons (military use of squares for a planned frontier colony, Charleston, New Haven etc as New World examples of grid/square patterns - planned examples by the Carolina proprietors, note the use of the term Margravate.
reply
Andrew McFadden
part of the square layout was meant for armed conflict. originally, these squares would have a storage of arms, mostly for the worries of attacks from local natives. Also, it was not the only location in coastal Ga to start with this design, but is the lone survivor of history to have it: New Ebenezer, just up the river, once had the same squares design, but that settlement was completely destroyed in Sherman's march to the sea. today, it's a mere living history museum site, with only the old brick sanctuary and old orphanage, and some recreated cabins. Savannah was spared the same fate of destruction by their surrender to the union forcesBrunswick, further south down the coast, had previously had the town squares layout as well, but a few decades ago in competing with Savannah for tourism and residency, decided to straighten the streets and remove the squares. in the short term it seemed an advantage, but in the long haul it made savannah more attractive for historical purposes. Or so i've picked up on as a native to the region
reply
part of the square layout was meant for armed conflict. originally, these squares would have a storage of arms, mostly for the worries of attacks from local natives. Also, it was not the only location in coastal Ga to start with this design, but is the lone survivor of history to have it: New Ebenezer, just up the river, once had the same squares design, but that settlement was completely destroyed in Sherman's march to the sea. today, it's a mere living history museum site, with only the old brick sanctuary and old orphanage, and some recreated cabins. Savannah was spared the same fate of destruction by their surrender to the union forcesBrunswick, further south down the coast, had previously had the town squares layout as well, but a few decades ago in competing with Savannah for tourism and residency, decided to straighten the streets and remove the squares. in the short term it seemed an advantage, but in the long haul it made savannah more attractive for historical purposes. Or so i've picked up on as a native to the region
reply
Scott Hannan
One question you did not ask is why was James Oglethorpe chosen to make this plan? Also, its a bit arrogant of so-called professionals to assume that just because someone has never formally studied something in a university setting that they would not be capable of having a high degree of ability in that subject. The answer to your question in this video could be something as simple as maybe he didnt like walking, or maybe he liked public parks and wanted things to be close and accessible to himself. After all, it doesnt take a genius to recognize that having a grid pattern makes things simpler than building ad hoc. So maybe the answer is as simple as starting with a grid pattern and then modifying it slightly.
reply
One question you did not ask is why was James Oglethorpe chosen to make this plan? Also, its a bit arrogant of so-called professionals to assume that just because someone has never formally studied something in a university setting that they would not be capable of having a high degree of ability in that subject. The answer to your question in this video could be something as simple as maybe he didnt like walking, or maybe he liked public parks and wanted things to be close and accessible to himself. After all, it doesnt take a genius to recognize that having a grid pattern makes things simpler than building ad hoc. So maybe the answer is as simple as starting with a grid pattern and then modifying it slightly.
reply
IntarwebUser
I don't like walking very far to parks, so when I doodle cities I like to make them at regular intervals. Maybe he based the idea on what sort of town he would have wanted to live in? And maybe he liked the idea of having mini parks very close by, too? If I can come up with the idea on my own with no real city-planning experience nor without having known about any such precedents (before having watched this video, I'm sure he could have come up with the same idea on his own, too. I do like your theory about military encampments, though. I wonder what other tricks the military has come up with that might be useful for city planning purposes? You should do a video on that.
reply
I don't like walking very far to parks, so when I doodle cities I like to make them at regular intervals. Maybe he based the idea on what sort of town he would have wanted to live in? And maybe he liked the idea of having mini parks very close by, too? If I can come up with the idea on my own with no real city-planning experience nor without having known about any such precedents (before having watched this video, I'm sure he could have come up with the same idea on his own, too. I do like your theory about military encampments, though. I wonder what other tricks the military has come up with that might be useful for city planning purposes? You should do a video on that.
reply
The Kehwanna Coast
I was there not too long ago and I gotta say, its infrastructure is extremely convenient when it comes to walking, but driving and parking downtown is a challenge. It's an older city, so the roads are more tight than your average city that had decades of redevelopment, however I will say if a city is trying to adopt the Spanish Superblock method for walker/biker friendly districts then Savannah model would work a lot better for pedestrians and drivers. Anyhow, Savannah is a gorgeous little city.
reply
I was there not too long ago and I gotta say, its infrastructure is extremely convenient when it comes to walking, but driving and parking downtown is a challenge. It's an older city, so the roads are more tight than your average city that had decades of redevelopment, however I will say if a city is trying to adopt the Spanish Superblock method for walker/biker friendly districts then Savannah model would work a lot better for pedestrians and drivers. Anyhow, Savannah is a gorgeous little city.
reply
Armaan Shaikh
In 8th grade all Georgia middle school students learn about Georgia's history and most plan a trip to Savannah for the entire school. I went way back when and had such a blast learning about the architecture and history behind the city with all of my classmates. I just went to Savannah last summer and this video makes me want to go back again. I highly recommend everyone to visit this charming and alluring city, it truly is one in a million.
reply
In 8th grade all Georgia middle school students learn about Georgia's history and most plan a trip to Savannah for the entire school. I went way back when and had such a blast learning about the architecture and history behind the city with all of my classmates. I just went to Savannah last summer and this video makes me want to go back again. I highly recommend everyone to visit this charming and alluring city, it truly is one in a million.
reply
Barfolomew
there are precedents for this form of town planning in Scotland, both in the form of 'model villages' built by land and business owners for their tenants and employees; and also in the various urban 'new town' expansion schemes of the 18th century. this all came about at the time of the Scottish Enlightenment and much has been written about the topic over the years. you can find more on the National Library of Scotland and Canmore websites
reply
there are precedents for this form of town planning in Scotland, both in the form of 'model villages' built by land and business owners for their tenants and employees; and also in the various urban 'new town' expansion schemes of the 18th century. this all came about at the time of the Scottish Enlightenment and much has been written about the topic over the years. you can find more on the National Library of Scotland and Canmore websites
reply
Luboman411
Paris has a design like that, a bunch of neighborhoods centered on a cute square. There's the Place des Vosges neighborhood east of the Marais, and the Palais-Royal neighborhood west of the Marais. A wealthy gentleman would've been exposed to (or visited) these new urban designs and would've been inspired to do the same. Covent Garden in London (which was built after Savannah was founded) copied these Parisian square designs.
reply
Paris has a design like that, a bunch of neighborhoods centered on a cute square. There's the Place des Vosges neighborhood east of the Marais, and the Palais-Royal neighborhood west of the Marais. A wealthy gentleman would've been exposed to (or visited) these new urban designs and would've been inspired to do the same. Covent Garden in London (which was built after Savannah was founded) copied these Parisian square designs.
reply
Nirupama Kumar
The Grid plan originally came from the Indus valley Civilization, employed in every city across North Western India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, 5000 years ago. It was incorporated into the Vastu Shastra which is the indian science of construction and architecture which is still used today in south and south East Asia. The city of Jaipur, built in the early 1700s is a good example.
reply
The Grid plan originally came from the Indus valley Civilization, employed in every city across North Western India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, 5000 years ago. It was incorporated into the Vastu Shastra which is the indian science of construction and architecture which is still used today in south and south East Asia. The city of Jaipur, built in the early 1700s is a good example.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
