Can we fit ENTIRE cities in a single building? (Arcologies)
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Date: 2023-08-17
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Comments and reviews: 19
Ian
Archologies are great on paper but because they involve massive up front capital investments I doubt will ever take off in the way they were originally intended. I. e. everyone under a single roof. KSA might be able to get some people to Phase I of the line for a variety of reasons however elsewhere in the world I don't think they'll ever really be popular. We live in the era of rugged individualism and one whiff of a collectivist building and the S or C word gets thrown down like a nuclear option. T. O. D. 's by private developers are the closest I think we're likely to see in my lifetime. Here in Edmonton, we have a bunch started but none have taken off with any real success. Still more are planned and most of them are redevelopments of failed monoculture malls into regional business/residential districts connected via pedway or parkades.
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Archologies are great on paper but because they involve massive up front capital investments I doubt will ever take off in the way they were originally intended. I. e. everyone under a single roof. KSA might be able to get some people to Phase I of the line for a variety of reasons however elsewhere in the world I don't think they'll ever really be popular. We live in the era of rugged individualism and one whiff of a collectivist building and the S or C word gets thrown down like a nuclear option. T. O. D. 's by private developers are the closest I think we're likely to see in my lifetime. Here in Edmonton, we have a bunch started but none have taken off with any real success. Still more are planned and most of them are redevelopments of failed monoculture malls into regional business/residential districts connected via pedway or parkades.
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ve5vv
the issue a lot of people have with any of these high efficacy high density city plans is that the kinds of things you can do in your home is extremely limited. If all you want to be able to do is eat sleep and consume media then yes this is a sort of life, rather like a prisoner in a large jail. Many people want to have a garden, work on a car, learn black smiting, build things, make there own soap or any number of other things that you can't do in a communal living situation. Historical there were people who were not interested in building new things and mastering new technologies and those people tended to end up the slaves of the people who did learn to build and explore and create. Most people would rather be the explorer, the inventor or the creator and not the consumer or at least have that as an option!
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the issue a lot of people have with any of these high efficacy high density city plans is that the kinds of things you can do in your home is extremely limited. If all you want to be able to do is eat sleep and consume media then yes this is a sort of life, rather like a prisoner in a large jail. Many people want to have a garden, work on a car, learn black smiting, build things, make there own soap or any number of other things that you can't do in a communal living situation. Historical there were people who were not interested in building new things and mastering new technologies and those people tended to end up the slaves of the people who did learn to build and explore and create. Most people would rather be the explorer, the inventor or the creator and not the consumer or at least have that as an option!
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My
I'm shocked that you do not even mention the Podium and Tower architectural typology so popular in Asian cities. As its name suggests you have a high density tower housing offices or high-rise apartments, built on top of a podium, which is a multilevel mixed-use structure that house a variety of functions, from entire malls, wet markets, restaurants, daycares, groceries, clinics, to public transit station like subway, bus terminals, and parking. There can be internal streets inside of podiums, even linked with other buildings or podiums through pedestrian underpasses or bridges. The top of large podiums could be a public or gated community park for the towers. You can have access to almost all service in a podium or through public transit if its well planned.
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I'm shocked that you do not even mention the Podium and Tower architectural typology so popular in Asian cities. As its name suggests you have a high density tower housing offices or high-rise apartments, built on top of a podium, which is a multilevel mixed-use structure that house a variety of functions, from entire malls, wet markets, restaurants, daycares, groceries, clinics, to public transit station like subway, bus terminals, and parking. There can be internal streets inside of podiums, even linked with other buildings or podiums through pedestrian underpasses or bridges. The top of large podiums could be a public or gated community park for the towers. You can have access to almost all service in a podium or through public transit if its well planned.
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bearcb
About arcology in sci fi: there was a Canadian TV series called Star Lost, where action took place in a giant spaceship that tried to take what was left of humankind to a new solar system after a cataclysm. The spaceship consisted of huge domes connected to a central hull. Each dome was ecologically independent, and each with a population of a different preserved culture. As generations passed, people at some domes forgot they were in a spaceship, and thought their domes were the universe.
A great story setup, someone should remake it. As a side note, the protagonist was played by Keir Dullea, of 2001 A Space Odyssey fame.
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About arcology in sci fi: there was a Canadian TV series called Star Lost, where action took place in a giant spaceship that tried to take what was left of humankind to a new solar system after a cataclysm. The spaceship consisted of huge domes connected to a central hull. Each dome was ecologically independent, and each with a population of a different preserved culture. As generations passed, people at some domes forgot they were in a spaceship, and thought their domes were the universe.
A great story setup, someone should remake it. As a side note, the protagonist was played by Keir Dullea, of 2001 A Space Odyssey fame.
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David
For me, the biggest obstacle to building something like an arcology is the cost per square meter/foot. In the same way that high-rise buildings get more and more expensive to build per square meter with each new level, the additional engineering and complexity or an arcology would inflate the cost of living/working spaces. This cost has to be shouldered by somebody and that somebody would presumably have to be the residents of said arcology. That has major affordability implications for ordinary people who might live there. Perhaps the efficiencies of that level of density might balance things out, but I suspect it won't.
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For me, the biggest obstacle to building something like an arcology is the cost per square meter/foot. In the same way that high-rise buildings get more and more expensive to build per square meter with each new level, the additional engineering and complexity or an arcology would inflate the cost of living/working spaces. This cost has to be shouldered by somebody and that somebody would presumably have to be the residents of said arcology. That has major affordability implications for ordinary people who might live there. Perhaps the efficiencies of that level of density might balance things out, but I suspect it won't.
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Dan
I worry that an arcology would maybe feel a bit too sterile and oppressive. Its difficult to see how such a large structure wouldn't be imposing to people, and how everything looking the same wouldn't be boring. The best cities are usually built up more organically over time, and yes there may be a high density but the variation in styles and unplanned street layout make things feel very human.
Maybe arcologies of smaller communities would be better? Like a town or a village arcology which would be on a more human scale but still have many of the advantages, I think that would be interesting.
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I worry that an arcology would maybe feel a bit too sterile and oppressive. Its difficult to see how such a large structure wouldn't be imposing to people, and how everything looking the same wouldn't be boring. The best cities are usually built up more organically over time, and yes there may be a high density but the variation in styles and unplanned street layout make things feel very human.
Maybe arcologies of smaller communities would be better? Like a town or a village arcology which would be on a more human scale but still have many of the advantages, I think that would be interesting.
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GojiMet86
Imagine the inferno of a fire breaking out in this huge enclosed space. The maintenance labor of arcologies would literally be through the roof, so many things being neglected and forgotten. Social classes would still find a way to segregate themselves.
While it is nice to discuss futurism, even talking about arcology in and of itself poses a threat to current urbanism. It can easily derail and cloud pragmatic, realistic discussions about 15-minute cities with future, utopian babble. All it takes is one nutjob to suck all the air out, a la Musk.
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Imagine the inferno of a fire breaking out in this huge enclosed space. The maintenance labor of arcologies would literally be through the roof, so many things being neglected and forgotten. Social classes would still find a way to segregate themselves.
While it is nice to discuss futurism, even talking about arcology in and of itself poses a threat to current urbanism. It can easily derail and cloud pragmatic, realistic discussions about 15-minute cities with future, utopian babble. All it takes is one nutjob to suck all the air out, a la Musk.
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Skyewint
Quite honestly, one of the biggest reasons I see a single pre-designed city failing is population variation - in particular, population growth. Limited size pre-designed cities will have a much much harder time accommodating natural growth, I'd guess. Having a relatively consistent methodology of expanding a city without needing to do something like construct another layer of the cube is a lot more realistic in my opinion.
That said, I'm relatively uneducated here so I could easily be wrong about that. Corrections more than welcome! :)
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Quite honestly, one of the biggest reasons I see a single pre-designed city failing is population variation - in particular, population growth. Limited size pre-designed cities will have a much much harder time accommodating natural growth, I'd guess. Having a relatively consistent methodology of expanding a city without needing to do something like construct another layer of the cube is a lot more realistic in my opinion.
That said, I'm relatively uneducated here so I could easily be wrong about that. Corrections more than welcome! :)
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Riley
I visited Arcosanti in 2005 and I recommend it for everyone, its a very fascinating place with some very clever architecture. Arcosanti however is less than 1% finished. In their visitor area they had models that Soleri designed for what he actually wanted to build for Arcosanti, what was actually built was absolutely tiny compared to his original goal. The Book Arcology: City in the Image of Man goes into a lot of detail about this future and assumes a lot more automation and material science developments.
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I visited Arcosanti in 2005 and I recommend it for everyone, its a very fascinating place with some very clever architecture. Arcosanti however is less than 1% finished. In their visitor area they had models that Soleri designed for what he actually wanted to build for Arcosanti, what was actually built was absolutely tiny compared to his original goal. The Book Arcology: City in the Image of Man goes into a lot of detail about this future and assumes a lot more automation and material science developments.
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Luke
Dude yes! SimCity 2000 was the bomb back in seventh grade! Me and my friends would play it for hours. I too was fascinated with those megastructures you could add once you made it far enough in the game. The thought of those actually existing in the future also captured my imagination, but Looking at things from my current perspective, I totally agree it would be wildly impractical in real life. I think the line is a silly and indulgent idea and I don t think it s being done for the people
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Dude yes! SimCity 2000 was the bomb back in seventh grade! Me and my friends would play it for hours. I too was fascinated with those megastructures you could add once you made it far enough in the game. The thought of those actually existing in the future also captured my imagination, but Looking at things from my current perspective, I totally agree it would be wildly impractical in real life. I think the line is a silly and indulgent idea and I don t think it s being done for the people
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Quigleyoto
Great work as usual! Since I know you care about NWI I was wondering if you had any thoughts about the whiplash-inducing change of fortune happening in Michigan City right now. It's a triple whammy - SS double track project finishing up, NIPSCO plant closing, state prison closing. Plus impactful developments pending. Not to mention Indiana Dunes' national park status still being a relatively new thing. also could something be happening with nearby US Steel. exciting times
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Great work as usual! Since I know you care about NWI I was wondering if you had any thoughts about the whiplash-inducing change of fortune happening in Michigan City right now. It's a triple whammy - SS double track project finishing up, NIPSCO plant closing, state prison closing. Plus impactful developments pending. Not to mention Indiana Dunes' national park status still being a relatively new thing. also could something be happening with nearby US Steel. exciting times
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Stephen
See, I think the problem with arcologies is actually a systems thing. Cities need to be like lego, you can take a building out and put a new one in without redesigning the whole city. Arcologies have massive risk of system failure: need to replace the equivalent of one building? The whole system falls apart. It simply is not humanly possible to plan and operate on that scale successfully. If you can make them modular then they'd be considerably easier to imagine as viable!
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See, I think the problem with arcologies is actually a systems thing. Cities need to be like lego, you can take a building out and put a new one in without redesigning the whole city. Arcologies have massive risk of system failure: need to replace the equivalent of one building? The whole system falls apart. It simply is not humanly possible to plan and operate on that scale successfully. If you can make them modular then they'd be considerably easier to imagine as viable!
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Goliath
I think arcologies face the issue of all 'I can fix all those problems all at once'-ideas. If use, population or priorities change, the arcology might have a hard time adapting. A city is modular, it can change a lot with time. If everything is one massive structure, repair and maintenance of the frame become ever more complex with time. Better to have many smaller parts that can be exchanged and function separately and independently from each other.
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I think arcologies face the issue of all 'I can fix all those problems all at once'-ideas. If use, population or priorities change, the arcology might have a hard time adapting. A city is modular, it can change a lot with time. If everything is one massive structure, repair and maintenance of the frame become ever more complex with time. Better to have many smaller parts that can be exchanged and function separately and independently from each other.
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gun10ck
I visited Arcosanti in 2011 as an architecture student and was one of the last groups to get to talk shop with Mr Soleri before he passed away. Truly remarkable visionary. Very little of his master plan has been completed though, and with his death I wonder how much more ever will. His legacy lives on though and this was a great video that I didn t expect to touch on his work. I played the game too, but I guess not enough to put 2 and 2 together.
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I visited Arcosanti in 2011 as an architecture student and was one of the last groups to get to talk shop with Mr Soleri before he passed away. Truly remarkable visionary. Very little of his master plan has been completed though, and with his death I wonder how much more ever will. His legacy lives on though and this was a great video that I didn t expect to touch on his work. I played the game too, but I guess not enough to put 2 and 2 together.
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Xidnaf
the example of the kowloon walled city makes me wonder if changes in zoning law could enable arcogies to spring up naturally. like, what if we just changed it so that your property doesn't extend upwards forever by default? what if we had building requirements that said you had to build sturdy enough that someone else can build on top of you if they want? i bet we would wind up with something kinda like a decentralized, modular arcology.
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the example of the kowloon walled city makes me wonder if changes in zoning law could enable arcogies to spring up naturally. like, what if we just changed it so that your property doesn't extend upwards forever by default? what if we had building requirements that said you had to build sturdy enough that someone else can build on top of you if they want? i bet we would wind up with something kinda like a decentralized, modular arcology.
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Arrvid
I also loved the archologies of SimCity, but I think two things would be a perpetual crisis in motion for real one: heat management and fire suppression. Even making everything electric, fire would still be significant challenge as it could render parts or perhaps the entire structure unusable in a shockingly short period of time. Good engineering can only carry the concept so far.
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I also loved the archologies of SimCity, but I think two things would be a perpetual crisis in motion for real one: heat management and fire suppression. Even making everything electric, fire would still be significant challenge as it could render parts or perhaps the entire structure unusable in a shockingly short period of time. Good engineering can only carry the concept so far.
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Geedis
If that crap were to be made in our lifetime, I for certain wouldn't be inclined to live in a huge structure with an unmanageable amount of other people. I don't think it wouldn't be sustainable as I am theorizing that it'd most likely be used as another excuse to have the global population to exponentially boom. And since we're currently facing issues with resources management.
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If that crap were to be made in our lifetime, I for certain wouldn't be inclined to live in a huge structure with an unmanageable amount of other people. I don't think it wouldn't be sustainable as I am theorizing that it'd most likely be used as another excuse to have the global population to exponentially boom. And since we're currently facing issues with resources management.
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Marty
Afik I think ownership is the big problem with an Arcologies. I. e. the haphazard planning by thousands of people over hundreds of years is what creates our best cities. I don't see how you do that with a single central organization owning all the land. I. e. while Arcologies are potentially very efficient I would expect them to be brittle and slow to adapt.
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Afik I think ownership is the big problem with an Arcologies. I. e. the haphazard planning by thousands of people over hundreds of years is what creates our best cities. I don't see how you do that with a single central organization owning all the land. I. e. while Arcologies are potentially very efficient I would expect them to be brittle and slow to adapt.
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Public
What architects should have tatooed on their forheads so they can read it perfectly every morning they look in a mirror
is that 1 in 20 people suffer with vertigo.
So multi storied living isn't goint to be anything other than a permanent illness for 5% of the world's population.
AND who says an arcology HAS to be a mega structure?
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What architects should have tatooed on their forheads so they can read it perfectly every morning they look in a mirror
is that 1 in 20 people suffer with vertigo.
So multi storied living isn't goint to be anything other than a permanent illness for 5% of the world's population.
AND who says an arcology HAS to be a mega structure?
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