Porsche just SAVED petrol engines FOREVER
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Date: 2023-03-31
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Comments and reviews: 14
Noah
Interesting how there aren't really any comments about how currently, almost all hydrogen is made from steam reformation, which releases a lot of CO2. And synfuels are reliant on renewable power to be carbon neutral. Yet in videos about EVs, time of comments about how bad for the environment they are bc all electricity is made by coal, pv power plants destroy cat swaths of land, wind turbines are killing birds and clogging land fills, and the disposal of all the materials at end of life will poison us all. I'm not making a point about the actual facts here, just the uneven distribution of FUD. Synthetic fuels can play a part in a low carbon society, but I often find when you have traditional carbon-reliant companies promoting and running the operation, actual carbon output gets ignored or covered up. We need to closely monitor how they are getting the electricity for electrolysis, make sure there is no leakage if they get CO2 from industry capture, and make sure no fossil fuels are burned in the transport/logistics of synfuel distribution. Same goes for making solar panels and batteries. Gotta stop using coal coke for heat in industrial manufacturing and goods transportation. Teeth to tail
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Interesting how there aren't really any comments about how currently, almost all hydrogen is made from steam reformation, which releases a lot of CO2. And synfuels are reliant on renewable power to be carbon neutral. Yet in videos about EVs, time of comments about how bad for the environment they are bc all electricity is made by coal, pv power plants destroy cat swaths of land, wind turbines are killing birds and clogging land fills, and the disposal of all the materials at end of life will poison us all. I'm not making a point about the actual facts here, just the uneven distribution of FUD. Synthetic fuels can play a part in a low carbon society, but I often find when you have traditional carbon-reliant companies promoting and running the operation, actual carbon output gets ignored or covered up. We need to closely monitor how they are getting the electricity for electrolysis, make sure there is no leakage if they get CO2 from industry capture, and make sure no fossil fuels are burned in the transport/logistics of synfuel distribution. Same goes for making solar panels and batteries. Gotta stop using coal coke for heat in industrial manufacturing and goods transportation. Teeth to tail
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Martin
It is not about saving the ICE car or the fact that car companies couldn't change to make only EV's fast enough. It is all about practicality and what makes sense and going full electric in 10-15 years just doesn't make any sense. The charging infrastructure is not there yet and did anybody ever think of vandalism? Those chargers are in dark places and the cables have cooper in them, so they will get stolen. Also, what if there are power outages? Overall, EV's are for the Elite that have their house to charge the car in the garage with additional solar panels. The average person is not able to use the technology yet and wont in 10-15 years either, so e-Fuels make a lot of sense to make sure the world keeps moving.
Also, we have to think about South America, Africa, India and Australia, large areas where EV's just do not make any sense and the infrastructure is way to expensive to set up. Now, we can say, But who cares, they are not in the EU. . Well, car companies will not produce ICE cars for those countries any longer if the volume isn't there and we only have the volume if US, EU and China still use ICE cars.
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It is not about saving the ICE car or the fact that car companies couldn't change to make only EV's fast enough. It is all about practicality and what makes sense and going full electric in 10-15 years just doesn't make any sense. The charging infrastructure is not there yet and did anybody ever think of vandalism? Those chargers are in dark places and the cables have cooper in them, so they will get stolen. Also, what if there are power outages? Overall, EV's are for the Elite that have their house to charge the car in the garage with additional solar panels. The average person is not able to use the technology yet and wont in 10-15 years either, so e-Fuels make a lot of sense to make sure the world keeps moving.
Also, we have to think about South America, Africa, India and Australia, large areas where EV's just do not make any sense and the infrastructure is way to expensive to set up. Now, we can say, But who cares, they are not in the EU. . Well, car companies will not produce ICE cars for those countries any longer if the volume isn't there and we only have the volume if US, EU and China still use ICE cars.
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dojohansen123
I'm sorry, but you're a useful idiot (to Porsche and the other incumbents) and should stick to talking about how fun the car is to drive, which fits your level of knowledge and understanding.
e-fuels are of course a scam, the same kind of tactics that big oil and big tobacco has been up to for so many decades.
ICE is fundamentally inefficient compared to electric drivetrains. Precisely because we, as you point out, don't have abundant clean energy, efficiency is very important.
In some distant future in which we have fusion power and far more clean energy than we know what to do with, efficiency will maybe not matter. If clean electricity costs a cent per kWh it doesn't really matter if a hydrogen vehicle is only 30% efficient, and we might want hydrogen cars. Or maybe another e-fuel that isn't quite as much of a PITA to store, distribute, and generally handle safely.
But because this is at best many decades away, e-fuels are a terrible idea, ironically precisely for the reasons you enlist in their favour.
FAIL.
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I'm sorry, but you're a useful idiot (to Porsche and the other incumbents) and should stick to talking about how fun the car is to drive, which fits your level of knowledge and understanding.
e-fuels are of course a scam, the same kind of tactics that big oil and big tobacco has been up to for so many decades.
ICE is fundamentally inefficient compared to electric drivetrains. Precisely because we, as you point out, don't have abundant clean energy, efficiency is very important.
In some distant future in which we have fusion power and far more clean energy than we know what to do with, efficiency will maybe not matter. If clean electricity costs a cent per kWh it doesn't really matter if a hydrogen vehicle is only 30% efficient, and we might want hydrogen cars. Or maybe another e-fuel that isn't quite as much of a PITA to store, distribute, and generally handle safely.
But because this is at best many decades away, e-fuels are a terrible idea, ironically precisely for the reasons you enlist in their favour.
FAIL.
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Arthur
electrolysis -> production of H2 (is about 70% efficient) so put 1kwh of electricity in to it and you get 0. 7wh.
x amount of H combine with x amount of COO will give us some biofuel. I guess it's more efficient than storing and containg hydrogen gas.
hydrogen gas can be efficiently be convertet to electricity
But a diesel combustion engine does not have an efficiency above 50%. maybe not even above 40%. and the efficiency of diesel engines is higher than gas engines.
so from that 1kwh of electricity, you get 0. 35kwh back. (and that without the efficiency lose of turning hydrogen gas with carbon dioxide into carbon neutral-fuel)
Electricity will stay cheaper to drive with and that is already not cheap.
I guess those combustion engines are for people with lots of money who can by the carbon neutral fuel.
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electrolysis -> production of H2 (is about 70% efficient) so put 1kwh of electricity in to it and you get 0. 7wh.
x amount of H combine with x amount of COO will give us some biofuel. I guess it's more efficient than storing and containg hydrogen gas.
hydrogen gas can be efficiently be convertet to electricity
But a diesel combustion engine does not have an efficiency above 50%. maybe not even above 40%. and the efficiency of diesel engines is higher than gas engines.
so from that 1kwh of electricity, you get 0. 35kwh back. (and that without the efficiency lose of turning hydrogen gas with carbon dioxide into carbon neutral-fuel)
Electricity will stay cheaper to drive with and that is already not cheap.
I guess those combustion engines are for people with lots of money who can by the carbon neutral fuel.
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Rayden
This could be made more efficient. Why use e-fuels that produce CO2 that is grabbed by carbon capture facilities that is converted back to e-fuels using renewable energy? You re just adding unnecessary steps and in each one, you ll lose a significant amount of power due to inefficient energy conversion. It would be better to just have an EV with a solar panel roof or to be charged through the road using induction. I understand the ease of filling up your vehicle and going from 0 miles to 350 miles of range in just a few minutes, but you wouldn t need to fill up or recharge if EVs had these options or replaceable batteries.
Disclaimer: I love ICEs and hope they never go extinct, but if the government is going to push the adoption of clean energy, they might as well focus on the most efficient ways to achieve it.
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This could be made more efficient. Why use e-fuels that produce CO2 that is grabbed by carbon capture facilities that is converted back to e-fuels using renewable energy? You re just adding unnecessary steps and in each one, you ll lose a significant amount of power due to inefficient energy conversion. It would be better to just have an EV with a solar panel roof or to be charged through the road using induction. I understand the ease of filling up your vehicle and going from 0 miles to 350 miles of range in just a few minutes, but you wouldn t need to fill up or recharge if EVs had these options or replaceable batteries.
Disclaimer: I love ICEs and hope they never go extinct, but if the government is going to push the adoption of clean energy, they might as well focus on the most efficient ways to achieve it.
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Eye
Let's be real here. So we don't just need completly to build an infrastructre to cover all our energy need with electricity, but also we want to make 9000 factories on the top of that? Not to mention we have a clean energy source, but we introduce an extra step in the process. Which by default means that the manufacturing cost of the e-fuel will be added on top of the electricity. Which by default means that it will be more expensive than pure electric cars. So yeah, internal combustion engine cars may remain as some toy for the rich kids, but we just added even more unsolved problems to the equation with this. (Although, there is one thing which may solve, namely the energy storage issue. Anyway, we'll see.
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Let's be real here. So we don't just need completly to build an infrastructre to cover all our energy need with electricity, but also we want to make 9000 factories on the top of that? Not to mention we have a clean energy source, but we introduce an extra step in the process. Which by default means that the manufacturing cost of the e-fuel will be added on top of the electricity. Which by default means that it will be more expensive than pure electric cars. So yeah, internal combustion engine cars may remain as some toy for the rich kids, but we just added even more unsolved problems to the equation with this. (Although, there is one thing which may solve, namely the energy storage issue. Anyway, we'll see.
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Rae
I think eFuels are an EXCELLENT alternative to have, as well as EV and Hydrogen vehicles. The only real issue I've read about in studies and reports is that eFuels are likely going to cost the consumer about 10- 20 (USD) per gallon. Hopefully those numbers are way off or will eventually come down to a normal level. Also, for those who can do it, for EVs you can have all the free fuel you want if you have a solar/battery solution in your house. I would like to see a world where we can keep all 3 of these technologies and the consumers can have the choice of what they want to drive, but the global climate change and damage we're doing to the planet is minimized or negated.
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I think eFuels are an EXCELLENT alternative to have, as well as EV and Hydrogen vehicles. The only real issue I've read about in studies and reports is that eFuels are likely going to cost the consumer about 10- 20 (USD) per gallon. Hopefully those numbers are way off or will eventually come down to a normal level. Also, for those who can do it, for EVs you can have all the free fuel you want if you have a solar/battery solution in your house. I would like to see a world where we can keep all 3 of these technologies and the consumers can have the choice of what they want to drive, but the global climate change and damage we're doing to the planet is minimized or negated.
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LightsOut
I don't really believe in this climate change BS. First it was getting too cold. Then it was getting too hot. Not it's just general climate change. Instead of trying to change the climate which is impossible, how about these genius politicians push to make the planet livable with what we have. If it's too hot then figure out how we can build things to live cooler and vice versa. Get the planet ready for what they think is coming. It they won't do that because it's all about money. Force companies to push what you have invested in. Just look at the companies that back democrats and what they are invested in. That tells you why they are really doing this crap.
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I don't really believe in this climate change BS. First it was getting too cold. Then it was getting too hot. Not it's just general climate change. Instead of trying to change the climate which is impossible, how about these genius politicians push to make the planet livable with what we have. If it's too hot then figure out how we can build things to live cooler and vice versa. Get the planet ready for what they think is coming. It they won't do that because it's all about money. Force companies to push what you have invested in. Just look at the companies that back democrats and what they are invested in. That tells you why they are really doing this crap.
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xXskullhunter77Xx
The main problem with efuels is the loss of energy when producing it. Unless this becomes negligible/manageable people will always make the statement why not use the clean electricity directly to power the cars and cut out the middle man? Trust me I want efuels and hydrogen in general to succeed. They definitely have a space in society with their main advantage of short refueling time. Furthermore, certain industries can simply not be electrified easily due to the limited power density of batteries and can only be easily decarbonized by using efuels. Think for example, of an electric cargo plane, but half the plane would need to be batteries.
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The main problem with efuels is the loss of energy when producing it. Unless this becomes negligible/manageable people will always make the statement why not use the clean electricity directly to power the cars and cut out the middle man? Trust me I want efuels and hydrogen in general to succeed. They definitely have a space in society with their main advantage of short refueling time. Furthermore, certain industries can simply not be electrified easily due to the limited power density of batteries and can only be easily decarbonized by using efuels. Think for example, of an electric cargo plane, but half the plane would need to be batteries.
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flyingmanforfun
Anyone with a common sense and a decent grasp of reality will know that the 2035 goal of banning the sales of new ICE s is utterly impossible and will not happen, this will take an entire generation or more. Its worth pointing out that a large part of the developing world are just starting to develop a decent living standard and are now having the money to buy cars finally, are we gonna tell them nah sorry you cant own cars with ICE because its bad for the enviroment, you gotta save up an astronomical amount of money and buy an EV that you cant even charge because the infrastructure for that is non existing.
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Anyone with a common sense and a decent grasp of reality will know that the 2035 goal of banning the sales of new ICE s is utterly impossible and will not happen, this will take an entire generation or more. Its worth pointing out that a large part of the developing world are just starting to develop a decent living standard and are now having the money to buy cars finally, are we gonna tell them nah sorry you cant own cars with ICE because its bad for the enviroment, you gotta save up an astronomical amount of money and buy an EV that you cant even charge because the infrastructure for that is non existing.
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Antonio
The problem with efuels is inefficiency, ICE cars are really inefficient and when you combine that with inefficiencies of fuel production, you'll end up with triple the price of even todays gas, efuels are only going to be good for expensive sports cars and machinery, no one outside of that is going to be paying that steep, and charging is getting faster by the year, new chargers are being built everywhere, and people just don't understand that you don't need to wait at a charger for half an hour everytime your car gets low, it's always charged up at home from a regular wall outlet
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The problem with efuels is inefficiency, ICE cars are really inefficient and when you combine that with inefficiencies of fuel production, you'll end up with triple the price of even todays gas, efuels are only going to be good for expensive sports cars and machinery, no one outside of that is going to be paying that steep, and charging is getting faster by the year, new chargers are being built everywhere, and people just don't understand that you don't need to wait at a charger for half an hour everytime your car gets low, it's always charged up at home from a regular wall outlet
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tenpoundburrito
This is good news to those of us who can't or won't buy an electric vehicle due to circumstances. An electric vehicle wouldn't work for me and it's cost-prohibitive anyway. I would consider a hydrogen vehicle if there were a supply chain, but not where I live.
I'd be fine with putting e-fuels into my vehicles provided it doesn't destroy the engine. The e-fuel factories would also create a lot of jobs to build, operate, and supply them. There are definite bugs to be worked out, but it seems worthy of much more research and development.
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This is good news to those of us who can't or won't buy an electric vehicle due to circumstances. An electric vehicle wouldn't work for me and it's cost-prohibitive anyway. I would consider a hydrogen vehicle if there were a supply chain, but not where I live.
I'd be fine with putting e-fuels into my vehicles provided it doesn't destroy the engine. The e-fuel factories would also create a lot of jobs to build, operate, and supply them. There are definite bugs to be worked out, but it seems worthy of much more research and development.
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1CORINTHIANS
Much ado about nothing: I know people, who has transformed standard gasoline engines to run on pure HO2 A DECADE AGO! Actually, the invention of the technology were done decades ago, still considered a conspiracy theory, even though it works and are referred to as Brown's Gas or HHO engine. Look it up! Your Fiat Panda or Ferrari F50 could run on water! The question really is, why this technology has been suppressed and the answer is most likely, that the energy sector is the most influential, powerful and also lucrative sector of all.
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Much ado about nothing: I know people, who has transformed standard gasoline engines to run on pure HO2 A DECADE AGO! Actually, the invention of the technology were done decades ago, still considered a conspiracy theory, even though it works and are referred to as Brown's Gas or HHO engine. Look it up! Your Fiat Panda or Ferrari F50 could run on water! The question really is, why this technology has been suppressed and the answer is most likely, that the energy sector is the most influential, powerful and also lucrative sector of all.
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Dandelion
Efuel and hydrogen internal combustion are the way forward. EVs are ridiculously bad for the planet, and why are the roads worse than ever? A hell of alot of 3 ton teslas hooning around destroying the roads, and they haven't even paid road tax to make up for it! (for now) that new bmw i5 they mentioned is reportedly 3. 9 ton without anyone even in it! Yea totally carbon neutral not to mention all the multistory car parks that will have to reinforce all their floors as they weren't designed to deal with those kinds of weights
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Efuel and hydrogen internal combustion are the way forward. EVs are ridiculously bad for the planet, and why are the roads worse than ever? A hell of alot of 3 ton teslas hooning around destroying the roads, and they haven't even paid road tax to make up for it! (for now) that new bmw i5 they mentioned is reportedly 3. 9 ton without anyone even in it! Yea totally carbon neutral not to mention all the multistory car parks that will have to reinforce all their floors as they weren't designed to deal with those kinds of weights
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