Forget WiFi AGAIN! This Wireless Method is WAY Better
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Date: 2025-01-27
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Comments and reviews: 20
louvets
Thanks for the video.
Note that a wifi device does not mean you need a cloud connection to get it to work. For example Shelly devices are wifi devices, they work locally, you do not need an app or a cloud connection and their response time is as fast as a local zigbee device. Once it get an IP address, you only need a browser.
- I started by installing zigbee devices in 2021 (around 10 device to get temperature and humidity and another 10 smart plugs) I was very enthusiastic about that solution at the beginning.
On the ’ side:
- battery life is amazing: can easily go 6 months to 1 year
- adding a new device from HA is super easy (when you are lucky)
On the - side:
- I often need to repeat the pairing process for some devices and there is no clear indication of weakness in the network: I keep track of which device goes offline and I cannot see a pattern emerging
- zigbee smart plugs act as repeaters, but when someone moves a smart plug away, the network may take a while to reconfigure and some devices are temporarily offline
- The whole thing is a black box
- Adding a new type of device is an experience similar to adding a printer to a Windows 95 computer, there are a lot of incompatible interpretations of the highest layers of the zigbee protocols, to the point that home assistant has a distinct mechanism to try to address those differences, you are lucky only if some took the trouble to create a so called quirk’ for the device you plan to use. Some people are saying that ZWave is better in this regard, but I have not experience, so cannot comment.
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Thanks for the video.
Note that a wifi device does not mean you need a cloud connection to get it to work. For example Shelly devices are wifi devices, they work locally, you do not need an app or a cloud connection and their response time is as fast as a local zigbee device. Once it get an IP address, you only need a browser.
- I started by installing zigbee devices in 2021 (around 10 device to get temperature and humidity and another 10 smart plugs) I was very enthusiastic about that solution at the beginning.
On the ’ side:
- battery life is amazing: can easily go 6 months to 1 year
- adding a new device from HA is super easy (when you are lucky)
On the - side:
- I often need to repeat the pairing process for some devices and there is no clear indication of weakness in the network: I keep track of which device goes offline and I cannot see a pattern emerging
- zigbee smart plugs act as repeaters, but when someone moves a smart plug away, the network may take a while to reconfigure and some devices are temporarily offline
- The whole thing is a black box
- Adding a new type of device is an experience similar to adding a printer to a Windows 95 computer, there are a lot of incompatible interpretations of the highest layers of the zigbee protocols, to the point that home assistant has a distinct mechanism to try to address those differences, you are lucky only if some took the trouble to create a so called quirk’ for the device you plan to use. Some people are saying that ZWave is better in this regard, but I have not experience, so cannot comment.
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maizenbrot
Problem is unless you build your own ESP device you can't choose if for example your lightbulb in your example will act as a router or not, which is Zigbees main flaw and causes it to always become unreliable as the number of devices grow. After adding your home full of IKEA and Philips hue bulbs, smart plugs etc. you have dozens of routers and some of them WILL eventually be turned off by light switches, somebody unplugging a power strip etc. Everytime this happens the mesh breaks and has to repair. Your coordinator cannot force a direct connection to devices, since the routing table is dynamic and lives in each device. Mesh is good when there is not a good enough direct connection to the coordinator, but with Zigbee devices you will start seeing in your device chart that they start meshing unessecarily even though they are in the same room as the coordinator, and the more devices connect in mesh mode instead of talking directly with the coordinator the more fragile the mesh becomes. Out of my 70 smart devices 50 report as routers, and it only takes one or two to malfunction or get turned off for the entire mesh to become unstable. If one could assign dedicated devices as routers that cannot physically be turned off and are located in strategic places around the house it would be a different story, but this is not possible, instead you have to rely on Zigbee protocol do dynamically handle meshing, which works worse and worse the more devices your get, when it really should be the other way around.
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Problem is unless you build your own ESP device you can't choose if for example your lightbulb in your example will act as a router or not, which is Zigbees main flaw and causes it to always become unreliable as the number of devices grow. After adding your home full of IKEA and Philips hue bulbs, smart plugs etc. you have dozens of routers and some of them WILL eventually be turned off by light switches, somebody unplugging a power strip etc. Everytime this happens the mesh breaks and has to repair. Your coordinator cannot force a direct connection to devices, since the routing table is dynamic and lives in each device. Mesh is good when there is not a good enough direct connection to the coordinator, but with Zigbee devices you will start seeing in your device chart that they start meshing unessecarily even though they are in the same room as the coordinator, and the more devices connect in mesh mode instead of talking directly with the coordinator the more fragile the mesh becomes. Out of my 70 smart devices 50 report as routers, and it only takes one or two to malfunction or get turned off for the entire mesh to become unstable. If one could assign dedicated devices as routers that cannot physically be turned off and are located in strategic places around the house it would be a different story, but this is not possible, instead you have to rely on Zigbee protocol do dynamically handle meshing, which works worse and worse the more devices your get, when it really should be the other way around.
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renatokulman7286
I first went with the same dongle you got. Later I got an SLZB-06, it has an ethernet port for either poe or ethernet plus usb power and its just much better.
Also i may have not paid enough attention, but i did not heard you mentioning the mesh network which is zigbees biggest advantage. Sure you said extender, but its a bit different than a wifi extender, cause basically all powered devices connect to a mesh network and creates really good signal. With the slzb-06 i was also able to put the router in the middle of the house and it has good enough network even without routers, but my server is in the utility room where walls are thick and the sonoff dongle barely penetrated the walls.
What I look forward to is custom light switches. Most zigbee switches(the ones you put behind the regular switch) doesn't support decoupled mode( lets you press the light switch with only sending a signal to the server and not actually switching the light.
That feature would be really nice for using smart lights while also having the physical light swith setup that can work offline if needed.
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I first went with the same dongle you got. Later I got an SLZB-06, it has an ethernet port for either poe or ethernet plus usb power and its just much better.
Also i may have not paid enough attention, but i did not heard you mentioning the mesh network which is zigbees biggest advantage. Sure you said extender, but its a bit different than a wifi extender, cause basically all powered devices connect to a mesh network and creates really good signal. With the slzb-06 i was also able to put the router in the middle of the house and it has good enough network even without routers, but my server is in the utility room where walls are thick and the sonoff dongle barely penetrated the walls.
What I look forward to is custom light switches. Most zigbee switches(the ones you put behind the regular switch) doesn't support decoupled mode( lets you press the light switch with only sending a signal to the server and not actually switching the light.
That feature would be really nice for using smart lights while also having the physical light swith setup that can work offline if needed.
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KaminKevCrew
While your point about wifi devices (at least those which require cloud connectivity) being disabled if a company goes bankrupt is completely valid, I think the more frustrating part of those devices is that companies can just stop supporting whatever you bought - for any reason, and at any time - which makes the device you bought a literal paper weight. A couple of years ago Sonos bricked all of their Gen 1 speakers because they decided to stop supporting them. They absolutely could have released a firmware update that would have at least allowed them to work locally, but they didn’t - as far as I know anyway.
Plus, having more wifi devices on a network isn’t a good thing. Especially when we’re talking about homes that could potentially have over 100 smart home devices, which doesn’t even include computers and phones, etc. That will just end with slow and unreliable wifi. Same with devices that operate in the wifi band in general - there’s only so much bandwidth available, so I try to keep all of my smart devices off of my wifi network.
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While your point about wifi devices (at least those which require cloud connectivity) being disabled if a company goes bankrupt is completely valid, I think the more frustrating part of those devices is that companies can just stop supporting whatever you bought - for any reason, and at any time - which makes the device you bought a literal paper weight. A couple of years ago Sonos bricked all of their Gen 1 speakers because they decided to stop supporting them. They absolutely could have released a firmware update that would have at least allowed them to work locally, but they didn’t - as far as I know anyway.
Plus, having more wifi devices on a network isn’t a good thing. Especially when we’re talking about homes that could potentially have over 100 smart home devices, which doesn’t even include computers and phones, etc. That will just end with slow and unreliable wifi. Same with devices that operate in the wifi band in general - there’s only so much bandwidth available, so I try to keep all of my smart devices off of my wifi network.
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TvistoProPro
All good content. One more bit on Zigbee vs Wifi: You have over 100 Zigbee devices on most coordinators, and the network generally is still quite responsive. Many Wfi routers top out at 30 to 60 devices, and are super slow when you go near those limits. Even running OpenWRT or other firmware that doesn't impose a software limit, the spectrum and protocol are simply not designed to have more than 80 client devices on a single access point. (For 2. 5 at least, 5 is better, but most wifi home devices only support 2. 5. Zigbee, because of it's protocol, is designed for smaller burst messages, and for being point-to-point. In fact, you can setup Zigbee devices to talk directly to each other! So even if the network is gone, a switch can still talk to a bulb and turn it on, so long as you directly bind them. The protocol isn't designed for large data transfers (like firmware upgrades, but it's great at what it wants to do 99% of the time, which is operate devices and report status.
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All good content. One more bit on Zigbee vs Wifi: You have over 100 Zigbee devices on most coordinators, and the network generally is still quite responsive. Many Wfi routers top out at 30 to 60 devices, and are super slow when you go near those limits. Even running OpenWRT or other firmware that doesn't impose a software limit, the spectrum and protocol are simply not designed to have more than 80 client devices on a single access point. (For 2. 5 at least, 5 is better, but most wifi home devices only support 2. 5. Zigbee, because of it's protocol, is designed for smaller burst messages, and for being point-to-point. In fact, you can setup Zigbee devices to talk directly to each other! So even if the network is gone, a switch can still talk to a bulb and turn it on, so long as you directly bind them. The protocol isn't designed for large data transfers (like firmware upgrades, but it's great at what it wants to do 99% of the time, which is operate devices and report status.
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greatscott
Dont be fooled. ALmos tall chinese devices that are pretending to be routers is NOT! they never route anything. The only brand that really routes is AQARA, from my tests. End devices should be able to connect to routers, but i have many rbands and only aqara devices works as router and many other end devices are connected to them instead to coordinator. This proves that AQARA works like router while none other have ever worked, only PRETENDS to be router. You can see in Zigbee2MQTT zigbee network map and see (for those who uses zigbee2Mqtt instead of crappy homeassistant zigbe integration.
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Dont be fooled. ALmos tall chinese devices that are pretending to be routers is NOT! they never route anything. The only brand that really routes is AQARA, from my tests. End devices should be able to connect to routers, but i have many rbands and only aqara devices works as router and many other end devices are connected to them instead to coordinator. This proves that AQARA works like router while none other have ever worked, only PRETENDS to be router. You can see in Zigbee2MQTT zigbee network map and see (for those who uses zigbee2Mqtt instead of crappy homeassistant zigbe integration.
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SandwichMitGurke
I don't think it makes sense to compare the range like this. The range depends on
- antenna design (and everything around it)
- TX gain as configured in dBm (for example with BlueRange Mesh, we could simply increase Bluetooth power by 2. 5x by changing it from 4dBm to 8dBm, thus massively increasing range.
So it probably only makes sense to compare them with the same board and antenna gain (or configure the maximum gain for each technology, as some might be artificially limited by regulations, which can be seen as a downside of a technology)
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I don't think it makes sense to compare the range like this. The range depends on
- antenna design (and everything around it)
- TX gain as configured in dBm (for example with BlueRange Mesh, we could simply increase Bluetooth power by 2. 5x by changing it from 4dBm to 8dBm, thus massively increasing range.
So it probably only makes sense to compare them with the same board and antenna gain (or configure the maximum gain for each technology, as some might be artificially limited by regulations, which can be seen as a downside of a technology)
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andreas4175
ZigBee is great - I use tons of ZigBee sensors in the house. I agree with your judgement in general but the Easy aspect requires a higher score in my opinion: Good at least if not Best:
Install ZigBee2MQTT in HomeAssistant and activate permitting to join in the Z2M interfaces. If you then activate pairing mode for a new sensor (by pressing its button for a few seconds) it gets added fully automatically. Nothing to do for you - no password, no manual confirmation in HomeAssistant. Nothing. The device just appears (via MQTT) and can directly be used.
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ZigBee is great - I use tons of ZigBee sensors in the house. I agree with your judgement in general but the Easy aspect requires a higher score in my opinion: Good at least if not Best:
Install ZigBee2MQTT in HomeAssistant and activate permitting to join in the Z2M interfaces. If you then activate pairing mode for a new sensor (by pressing its button for a few seconds) it gets added fully automatically. Nothing to do for you - no password, no manual confirmation in HomeAssistant. Nothing. The device just appears (via MQTT) and can directly be used.
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olafmarzocchi6194
The zigbee module in my Aqara tunable white LED bulb died so I tried to replace it with ESP8266 bare esp-12E (smallest form factor, and I had it already. In idle the ZB uses 15 mA, the ESP-12E 67 mA or 15 mA (with higher peaks from time to time) with wifi power save active.
I'm still trying to understand why it resets itself as soon as it reaches the status ready (onboard LED turns on. Maybe a wrong connection on my side.
If you want to play with it for a video, maybe I can borrow it to you.
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The zigbee module in my Aqara tunable white LED bulb died so I tried to replace it with ESP8266 bare esp-12E (smallest form factor, and I had it already. In idle the ZB uses 15 mA, the ESP-12E 67 mA or 15 mA (with higher peaks from time to time) with wifi power save active.
I'm still trying to understand why it resets itself as soon as it reaches the status ready (onboard LED turns on. Maybe a wrong connection on my side.
If you want to play with it for a video, maybe I can borrow it to you.
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ben_car_8115
I know you’re a hardware guy (I love your videos and have followed for a while) but if you want to dive into the packets more you can connect that dongle to a computer, download and open Wireshark, and see the Zigbee packets in the area. They will be encrypted but based on some access you have you are able to get the keys and import them into Wireshark to view them.
(I did this for some work during my Masters with Hue Lightbulbs so it’s possible to get the keys without a UI I just forget how)
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I know you’re a hardware guy (I love your videos and have followed for a while) but if you want to dive into the packets more you can connect that dongle to a computer, download and open Wireshark, and see the Zigbee packets in the area. They will be encrypted but based on some access you have you are able to get the keys and import them into Wireshark to view them.
(I did this for some work during my Masters with Hue Lightbulbs so it’s possible to get the keys without a UI I just forget how)
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GTrainRx7
BT range is ok
Obviously these things are subjective and depend on use case, but I would say a few meters for BT and 20m for wifi are VERY different.
Also not sure how wifi is only ok for easy Again, probably use case. If you want to do home automation or similar, I guess it is tricky(er) but for the vast majority. press a button, or type a credential and you are done.
EDIT: BT is 30m Since when ( I WISH you had of put those stats on the original chart. why are those stats not on it: ( )
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BT range is ok
Obviously these things are subjective and depend on use case, but I would say a few meters for BT and 20m for wifi are VERY different.
Also not sure how wifi is only ok for easy Again, probably use case. If you want to do home automation or similar, I guess it is tricky(er) but for the vast majority. press a button, or type a credential and you are done.
EDIT: BT is 30m Since when ( I WISH you had of put those stats on the original chart. why are those stats not on it: ( )
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MrWyzdum
I implemented my whole house (just lighting) in the mid 90s on a system called X10.
It was a pretty big house on 3 levels, so it was nice having control.
Unfortunately it was never really as robust as it needed to be, and i eventually just gave up.
Since then the whole idea of home automation just isn't interesting to me, but that's all a function of the much smaller house i live in now and the emergence of LED lighting, which uses do little energy i just leave them on all the time.
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I implemented my whole house (just lighting) in the mid 90s on a system called X10.
It was a pretty big house on 3 levels, so it was nice having control.
Unfortunately it was never really as robust as it needed to be, and i eventually just gave up.
Since then the whole idea of home automation just isn't interesting to me, but that's all a function of the much smaller house i live in now and the emergence of LED lighting, which uses do little energy i just leave them on all the time.
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jeffro.
Final:
Great video, well done!
The only problem I have is your pronunciation of micro (as in uW/hr. If you hadn't shown it written in the UI, I never would've understood what you were saying, lol.
Overall proves my point that Zigbee is superior!
And, now with a firmware upgrade of new tech, certain brands of Zigbee devices will have network sensing tech, which eliminates the need for IR motion detectors for lighting & security systems!
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Final:
Great video, well done!
The only problem I have is your pronunciation of micro (as in uW/hr. If you hadn't shown it written in the UI, I never would've understood what you were saying, lol.
Overall proves my point that Zigbee is superior!
And, now with a firmware upgrade of new tech, certain brands of Zigbee devices will have network sensing tech, which eliminates the need for IR motion detectors for lighting & security systems!
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asksearchknock
REAL zigbee is great and the battery life is worth every inconvenience of having to use a bridge sadly, many devices are now using the protocol with no regard for the battery usage requirement of the standard. Take the esp devices for example - they are zigbee compatible but their battery usage is still on par with any other ESP32 and so are not in keeping with what zigbee was created for
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REAL zigbee is great and the battery life is worth every inconvenience of having to use a bridge sadly, many devices are now using the protocol with no regard for the battery usage requirement of the standard. Take the esp devices for example - they are zigbee compatible but their battery usage is still on par with any other ESP32 and so are not in keeping with what zigbee was created for
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ataasgari
You can convert some of Telink based bluetooth temperature/humidity sensors to zigbee by OTA flashing custom Zigbee enabled firmware, I managed to convert all of my Xiaomi sensors to Zigbee successfully. Currently supported devices: LYWSD03MMC, CGDK2, MHO-C122, MHO-C401(old, MHO-C401N, TS0201_TZ3000, TH03Z, TH03, LKTMZL02, ZY-ZTH02, ZTH01, ZTH02. Search for Pvvx ZigbeeTLc.
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You can convert some of Telink based bluetooth temperature/humidity sensors to zigbee by OTA flashing custom Zigbee enabled firmware, I managed to convert all of my Xiaomi sensors to Zigbee successfully. Currently supported devices: LYWSD03MMC, CGDK2, MHO-C122, MHO-C401(old, MHO-C401N, TS0201_TZ3000, TH03Z, TH03, LKTMZL02, ZY-ZTH02, ZTH01, ZTH02. Search for Pvvx ZigbeeTLc.
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jonasfleischer2256
I would recommend to put the Zigbee Coordinator in the USB 2. 0 Port of the RaspberryPi. It doesn’t make any difference in speed because the coordinator doesn’t need much. But especially if you are flashing the Coordinator with a custom firmware (to support zigbee and thread simultaneously) it reduces compatibility and connection issues in the long term use.
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I would recommend to put the Zigbee Coordinator in the USB 2. 0 Port of the RaspberryPi. It doesn’t make any difference in speed because the coordinator doesn’t need much. But especially if you are flashing the Coordinator with a custom firmware (to support zigbee and thread simultaneously) it reduces compatibility and connection issues in the long term use.
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frarugi87
Let's also say that everybody makes WiFi proprietary devices, while Zigbee is a standard. This means that you can take an IKEA Tradfri button and use it with a Lidl Gateway and Vimar cover buttons, then add a couple of cheap no-brand chinese temperature and humidity sensors, and everything works out of the box. No proprietary cloud services, no proprietary app, .
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Let's also say that everybody makes WiFi proprietary devices, while Zigbee is a standard. This means that you can take an IKEA Tradfri button and use it with a Lidl Gateway and Vimar cover buttons, then add a couple of cheap no-brand chinese temperature and humidity sensors, and everything works out of the box. No proprietary cloud services, no proprietary app, .
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gabriellando1
I'm using ZigBee to automate my entire home. I replaced all wifi devices to ZigBee when I moved from my old home to the new one. Regarding the Low data rate, I really don't think this is a problem at all. Firmware upgrade I will do it once in my life. For IoT data, this is more than enough, and the power usage is more relevant than the data rate for me.
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I'm using ZigBee to automate my entire home. I replaced all wifi devices to ZigBee when I moved from my old home to the new one. Regarding the Low data rate, I really don't think this is a problem at all. Firmware upgrade I will do it once in my life. For IoT data, this is more than enough, and the power usage is more relevant than the data rate for me.
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skylarzarzecki111
11: 34 something I have struggled to find clear data on is battery life of receiver devices that are always awaiting a command or connection. I’m not asking for years of run time in a constant waiting state. My need is for something that could be left on for atleast a week running off of an 18650 but be able to respond instantly. Any ideas
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11: 34 something I have struggled to find clear data on is battery life of receiver devices that are always awaiting a command or connection. I’m not asking for years of run time in a constant waiting state. My need is for something that could be left on for atleast a week running off of an 18650 but be able to respond instantly. Any ideas
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AmusementLabs
I've been using an ESP8266 for some wireless WS2812b control (data only, powdered separately) with no flicker from the 3. 3v data. However it seems to freeze or the wifi server breaks down if you send 'mismatch' data (like a 0 when it expects no less than 1. I've looked around if anyone has faced this quirk, but haven't seen much. Anyone else
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I've been using an ESP8266 for some wireless WS2812b control (data only, powdered separately) with no flicker from the 3. 3v data. However it seems to freeze or the wifi server breaks down if you send 'mismatch' data (like a 0 when it expects no less than 1. I've looked around if anyone has faced this quirk, but haven't seen much. Anyone else
reply
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