What happened to the Christian Majority of Anatolia
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Date: 2024-05-20
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Comments and reviews: 20
AltaicGigachad
The Christian sources describe the naval attacks of the Turks as operations of pirates who aimed at pillaging property and taking captives to sell in slave-markets. Latins and Byzantines expressed much indignation at the spectacle of emirs who were proud only because they were able to lead their ferocious soldiers in predatory raids. The earliest source narrating the wars carried out by the Turks in the Byzantine frontier zones during the collapse of the Seljuk state is the work of George Pachymeres; he describes the Turkish warriors as people earning their living by the knife. Nevertheless what the Christians used to call piracy or brigandage was for the Muslim Turks a Holy War a praiseworthy and legitimate occupation leading directly to Paradise. In 1354 the Metropolitan of Thessalonica Gregory Palama sliving among the Turks as a prisoner realized with surprise that the Turks attributed their victories over the Byzantines to their love for God:
For these impious people hated by God and infamous boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God. they live by the bow, the sword, and debauchery finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder pillage spoil. and not only do they commit these crimes but even - what an aberration - they believe that God approves of them. This is what think of them now that know more precisely about their way of life.
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The Christian sources describe the naval attacks of the Turks as operations of pirates who aimed at pillaging property and taking captives to sell in slave-markets. Latins and Byzantines expressed much indignation at the spectacle of emirs who were proud only because they were able to lead their ferocious soldiers in predatory raids. The earliest source narrating the wars carried out by the Turks in the Byzantine frontier zones during the collapse of the Seljuk state is the work of George Pachymeres; he describes the Turkish warriors as people earning their living by the knife. Nevertheless what the Christians used to call piracy or brigandage was for the Muslim Turks a Holy War a praiseworthy and legitimate occupation leading directly to Paradise. In 1354 the Metropolitan of Thessalonica Gregory Palama sliving among the Turks as a prisoner realized with surprise that the Turks attributed their victories over the Byzantines to their love for God:
For these impious people hated by God and infamous boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God. they live by the bow, the sword, and debauchery finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder pillage spoil. and not only do they commit these crimes but even - what an aberration - they believe that God approves of them. This is what think of them now that know more precisely about their way of life.
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knowledgia
Western authors give additional details about mixed marriages and the children born into such unions. The Latin historians of the Crusades noted in Anatolia a specific group of the Turkopouli (that is, 'the children of the Turks') who were born of a Greek mother and a Turkish father. For the beginning of the fourteenth century, the Catalan soldier and chronicler Ramon Muntaner reports that the Turks of western Anatolia married girls from noble Greek families. It is especially interesting that the male children of these mixed marriages 'became Turks and were circumcised', while for female children the choice of religion was free. The same difference between the religious affiliation of boys and girls was reported by Ludolf von Suchen in the middle of the fourteenth century. Von Suchen maintains that when the Turks married Christian women, the boys of the mixed marriages followed the Muslim religion of their fathers while the girls maintained the Christian faith of their mothers. However, as we have seen in Byzantine canonical texts, boys also could be baptised by their mothers.
These reports confirm that, firstly, mixed marriages between Muslims and Greek women were common throughout the centuries, and, secondly, that the children of both Muslim and mixed marriages were baptised according to Orthodox Greek rites.
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Western authors give additional details about mixed marriages and the children born into such unions. The Latin historians of the Crusades noted in Anatolia a specific group of the Turkopouli (that is, 'the children of the Turks') who were born of a Greek mother and a Turkish father. For the beginning of the fourteenth century, the Catalan soldier and chronicler Ramon Muntaner reports that the Turks of western Anatolia married girls from noble Greek families. It is especially interesting that the male children of these mixed marriages 'became Turks and were circumcised', while for female children the choice of religion was free. The same difference between the religious affiliation of boys and girls was reported by Ludolf von Suchen in the middle of the fourteenth century. Von Suchen maintains that when the Turks married Christian women, the boys of the mixed marriages followed the Muslim religion of their fathers while the girls maintained the Christian faith of their mothers. However, as we have seen in Byzantine canonical texts, boys also could be baptised by their mothers.
These reports confirm that, firstly, mixed marriages between Muslims and Greek women were common throughout the centuries, and, secondly, that the children of both Muslim and mixed marriages were baptised according to Orthodox Greek rites.
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AltaicGigachad
The predominance of Greek women at the Seljuk harem thus seems to have been merely a royal variation of a common practice in Muslim Anatolia. Greek women were valued as the most prestigious marriage partners among all strata of Muslim society. It was Greek women who guided their Muslim husbands and masters into the refined Byzantine way of life and the world of Byzantine luxury, introducing among other things new cuisines and ways of structuring the household. Although the information on Seljuk marriage policy in the eleventh to twelfth century is scarce, it seems highly probably that the Seljuk harem was modelled along similar lines as other strata of Muslim Anatolian society, with a preference of marriage to Greek women who in turn acted as mediators to the old world of the 'empire of the Romans'.
Peacock, A. and Yildiz, S, 2012. The Seljuks of Anatolia.
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The predominance of Greek women at the Seljuk harem thus seems to have been merely a royal variation of a common practice in Muslim Anatolia. Greek women were valued as the most prestigious marriage partners among all strata of Muslim society. It was Greek women who guided their Muslim husbands and masters into the refined Byzantine way of life and the world of Byzantine luxury, introducing among other things new cuisines and ways of structuring the household. Although the information on Seljuk marriage policy in the eleventh to twelfth century is scarce, it seems highly probably that the Seljuk harem was modelled along similar lines as other strata of Muslim Anatolian society, with a preference of marriage to Greek women who in turn acted as mediators to the old world of the 'empire of the Romans'.
Peacock, A. and Yildiz, S, 2012. The Seljuks of Anatolia.
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carnilmacil
The majority of them mixed with the Turkic Muslim majority, and at the end of the day, they had become Muslims. However, this didn't happen in a day; it took hundreds of years. The new Turkish generation is proud of not only their Gokturk heritage, but some embrace their Roman and Anatolian heritage as well. Honestly, we are more Anatolian when it comes to genetics, but culturally and linguistically, we are proud of being Turks, and that is more important for us than what our blood cells tell us, to be honest. Though we respect everyone's religion today, it doesn't matter if you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist. As long as you are a chill person, Turkish people are going to welcome you with open arms if you visit Turkey. Peace at home, peace in the world.
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The majority of them mixed with the Turkic Muslim majority, and at the end of the day, they had become Muslims. However, this didn't happen in a day; it took hundreds of years. The new Turkish generation is proud of not only their Gokturk heritage, but some embrace their Roman and Anatolian heritage as well. Honestly, we are more Anatolian when it comes to genetics, but culturally and linguistically, we are proud of being Turks, and that is more important for us than what our blood cells tell us, to be honest. Though we respect everyone's religion today, it doesn't matter if you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist. As long as you are a chill person, Turkish people are going to welcome you with open arms if you visit Turkey. Peace at home, peace in the world.
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Bashchavush
Christian Orthodox people belonged to the millet-i Rum, and progressively, Greek became the dominant means of communication amongst the members of the millet, who were called by others and were calling themselves. Romioi. Interestingly, the term 'Hellene' still signified for most people the pagan classical tradition, and it was a term that especially the clergy was keen to eliminate. Certain evocations of the term 'Hellene' by Byzantine scholars (e. g. in the twelfth century) contained some elements of contemporary ethnic identification, but it never acquired widespread currency, it never really caught on' (Beaton 2007: 93.
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Christian Orthodox people belonged to the millet-i Rum, and progressively, Greek became the dominant means of communication amongst the members of the millet, who were called by others and were calling themselves. Romioi. Interestingly, the term 'Hellene' still signified for most people the pagan classical tradition, and it was a term that especially the clergy was keen to eliminate. Certain evocations of the term 'Hellene' by Byzantine scholars (e. g. in the twelfth century) contained some elements of contemporary ethnic identification, but it never acquired widespread currency, it never really caught on' (Beaton 2007: 93.
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angelosdaresis1477
The Roman people survived as one among many ethnic groups in the new Muslim empire. It was not until many centuries later that the millet system emerged, which ecclesiastically placed most Orthodox groups under the patriarch of Constantinople. Outside of this administrative arrangement, the Rum remained one ethnic group among others, distinct from the Bulgarians, Christian Albanians, Vlachs, and Serbs. Romans who emigrated to the west had to take on a Greek social pro file, because that is how they were recognized there.
Anthony Kaldellis, The New Roman Empire: A History of Byzantium, p. 915
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The Roman people survived as one among many ethnic groups in the new Muslim empire. It was not until many centuries later that the millet system emerged, which ecclesiastically placed most Orthodox groups under the patriarch of Constantinople. Outside of this administrative arrangement, the Rum remained one ethnic group among others, distinct from the Bulgarians, Christian Albanians, Vlachs, and Serbs. Romans who emigrated to the west had to take on a Greek social pro file, because that is how they were recognized there.
Anthony Kaldellis, The New Roman Empire: A History of Byzantium, p. 915
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vangelisskia214
An estimate of the Pontian Greek death toll at all stages of the anti-Christian genocide is about 350, 000; for all the Greeks of the Ottoman realm taken together, the toll surely exceeded half a million, and may approach the 900, 000 killed that a team of us researchers found in the early postwar period. Most surviving Greeks were expelled to Greece as part of the tumultuous 'population exchanges' that set the seal on a heavily 'Turkified' state.
Jones 2010, p. 166: Jones, Adam (2006, Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction, Routledge.
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An estimate of the Pontian Greek death toll at all stages of the anti-Christian genocide is about 350, 000; for all the Greeks of the Ottoman realm taken together, the toll surely exceeded half a million, and may approach the 900, 000 killed that a team of us researchers found in the early postwar period. Most surviving Greeks were expelled to Greece as part of the tumultuous 'population exchanges' that set the seal on a heavily 'Turkified' state.
Jones 2010, p. 166: Jones, Adam (2006, Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction, Routledge.
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angelosdaresis1477
An admixture analysis determined that the Anatolian TURKS SHARE MOST OF THEIR ANCESTRY WITH NON-TURKIC POPULATIONS RESIDENT IN THE REGION, and the 12th century is set as an admixture date.
Yunusbayev, Bayazit; Metspalu, Mait; Metspalu, Ene; Valeev, Albert; Litvinov, Sergei; Valiev, Ruslan; Akhmetova, Vita; Balanovska, Elena; Balanovsky, Oleg; Turdikulova, Shahlo (2015. The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia
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An admixture analysis determined that the Anatolian TURKS SHARE MOST OF THEIR ANCESTRY WITH NON-TURKIC POPULATIONS RESIDENT IN THE REGION, and the 12th century is set as an admixture date.
Yunusbayev, Bayazit; Metspalu, Mait; Metspalu, Ene; Valeev, Albert; Litvinov, Sergei; Valiev, Ruslan; Akhmetova, Vita; Balanovska, Elena; Balanovsky, Oleg; Turdikulova, Shahlo (2015. The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia
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OptimusMaximusNero
Constantine was not only one of the greatest emperors of all time, but also a top-notch troll. Everyone in Rome was completely ecstatic because they calculated a 100% chance that Maxentius would make Constantine his btch at the Milvian Bridge, only to find Constantine entering Rome while carrying Maxentius' head on a spear to Rome and saying, Guess who prayed to the wrong God
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Constantine was not only one of the greatest emperors of all time, but also a top-notch troll. Everyone in Rome was completely ecstatic because they calculated a 100% chance that Maxentius would make Constantine his btch at the Milvian Bridge, only to find Constantine entering Rome while carrying Maxentius' head on a spear to Rome and saying, Guess who prayed to the wrong God
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samwill7259
I mean considering what actually happened. It's colonialism. That's what happened
Water under the bridge now, Turkey is Turkish and that's no one's business but the Turks but that is what happened
(Even if they really, REALLY need to lay off the Kurds. No one is going to remember them fondly for that because the Kurds aren't going anywhere)
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I mean considering what actually happened. It's colonialism. That's what happened
Water under the bridge now, Turkey is Turkish and that's no one's business but the Turks but that is what happened
(Even if they really, REALLY need to lay off the Kurds. No one is going to remember them fondly for that because the Kurds aren't going anywhere)
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vangelisskia214
That particular date was chosen because on April 24, 1915, the Ottoman Young Turk government began deporting hundreds of Armenian leaders and intellectuals from Constantinople (Istanbul); most were later MURDERED EN MASSE.
Alan Whitehorn (2015. The Armenian Genocide: The Essential Reference Guide. ABC-CLIO. p. 139.
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That particular date was chosen because on April 24, 1915, the Ottoman Young Turk government began deporting hundreds of Armenian leaders and intellectuals from Constantinople (Istanbul); most were later MURDERED EN MASSE.
Alan Whitehorn (2015. The Armenian Genocide: The Essential Reference Guide. ABC-CLIO. p. 139.
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angelosdaresis1477
Turkey, still struggling to achieve its ninety-five-year-old dream of becoming the beacon of democracy in the Near East, DOES EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DENY its GENOCIDE of the Armenians, Assyrians and Pontian Greeks.
Colin Martin Tatz (2003. With Intent to Destroy: Reflections on Genocide. Verso. p. 13.
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Turkey, still struggling to achieve its ninety-five-year-old dream of becoming the beacon of democracy in the Near East, DOES EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DENY its GENOCIDE of the Armenians, Assyrians and Pontian Greeks.
Colin Martin Tatz (2003. With Intent to Destroy: Reflections on Genocide. Verso. p. 13.
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bohohohohoyt
The Battle of Manzikert paved way for Crusades and the Turkification of Anatolia which laid the seeds of the Ottoman empire which conquered Constantinople ending Rome and triggering the Age of Discovery which shaped much of the modern world. A battle can only be this impactful
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The Battle of Manzikert paved way for Crusades and the Turkification of Anatolia which laid the seeds of the Ottoman empire which conquered Constantinople ending Rome and triggering the Age of Discovery which shaped much of the modern world. A battle can only be this impactful
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Bashchavush
There mustn't be a better example of a 'moving' ethno-linguistic group than the Turkic peoples.
They started out from Eastern Siberia (Mongolia, Altai) and now are main ethnic constituents of various countries, like Turkey, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, etc.
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There mustn't be a better example of a 'moving' ethno-linguistic group than the Turkic peoples.
They started out from Eastern Siberia (Mongolia, Altai) and now are main ethnic constituents of various countries, like Turkey, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, etc.
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muhsinhalacoglu610
May God have mercy on my Ottoman and Seljuk ancestors, it is very good, all Abrahamic religions have always managed to live together in peace and tranquility. And throughout history, even until today, everyone can freely practice their own ideology and religion.
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May God have mercy on my Ottoman and Seljuk ancestors, it is very good, all Abrahamic religions have always managed to live together in peace and tranquility. And throughout history, even until today, everyone can freely practice their own ideology and religion.
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OptimusMaximusNero
It is quite sad that Constantinople's name got unnecessarily changed, especially if we consider that the Ottomans kept the name until just a century ago. Istanbul is not a bad name, but it has nothing to do against the supreme badassery of Constantinople
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It is quite sad that Constantinople's name got unnecessarily changed, especially if we consider that the Ottomans kept the name until just a century ago. Istanbul is not a bad name, but it has nothing to do against the supreme badassery of Constantinople
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Shadowfang1318
Hate the Byzantine name but weird that you seem to consider the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantium is strange. Idk, at the end of the day all I know is that there are still small communities of Greek speaking Orthodox Romans im Syria and Turkey
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Hate the Byzantine name but weird that you seem to consider the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantium is strange. Idk, at the end of the day all I know is that there are still small communities of Greek speaking Orthodox Romans im Syria and Turkey
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emrullahkaya7028
One correction: Janissary corps those were taken from christian communities were largely from Balkan peninsula not from Anatolia, Syria and eastern regions where also Armenian people lived together with Muslim community.
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One correction: Janissary corps those were taken from christian communities were largely from Balkan peninsula not from Anatolia, Syria and eastern regions where also Armenian people lived together with Muslim community.
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PepeTheFrogEnjoyer
Big ups to Turks, they did the most prosperous demographic engineering of the 20th century traded Greek and Armenians Christians in favor of Muslim Albanians, Bosniaks, Tatars, Circassians, etc.
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Big ups to Turks, they did the most prosperous demographic engineering of the 20th century traded Greek and Armenians Christians in favor of Muslim Albanians, Bosniaks, Tatars, Circassians, etc.
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rod9829
This is incredibly simplistic, I thought I’d learn something of the conversion of Anatolia but you really painted in broad strokes, its conversion was almost a millennia long process
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This is incredibly simplistic, I thought I’d learn something of the conversion of Anatolia but you really painted in broad strokes, its conversion was almost a millennia long process
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