Can you solve the trickster god riddle - Alex Rosenthal
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Date: 2024-11-21
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Comments and reviews: 20
LocalPlagueDoc
If we draw only one cross, we can see a pattern show up:
- If a line is drawn between two OPPOSITe ends, the remaining amount of ends will still be FOUR becuase the line create two new ends.
- If a line is drawn connecting two ADJACENT ends, the amount of available ends becomes THREE, becuase one will be 'dead' from the rest because of the drawn line.
This means that every time an end is encircled, it stops counting towards the total. even if you encircle an even amount of ends, they will eventually become 'dead'. As such, the winner is however has their turn when there are exactly TWO remaining ends, as the winning move will leave both new ends isolated from each other.
The winning method then, will be to keep the opponent in an ODD number of ends, so that eventually his move puts us in the winning position. This explains Loki's scheming: since he chooses the turn order, he can keep us in an ODD number of ends from the get-go.
EDIT: Oh wow, using the carved names was a plot-twist I didn't expect!
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If we draw only one cross, we can see a pattern show up:
- If a line is drawn between two OPPOSITe ends, the remaining amount of ends will still be FOUR becuase the line create two new ends.
- If a line is drawn connecting two ADJACENT ends, the amount of available ends becomes THREE, becuase one will be 'dead' from the rest because of the drawn line.
This means that every time an end is encircled, it stops counting towards the total. even if you encircle an even amount of ends, they will eventually become 'dead'. As such, the winner is however has their turn when there are exactly TWO remaining ends, as the winning move will leave both new ends isolated from each other.
The winning method then, will be to keep the opponent in an ODD number of ends, so that eventually his move puts us in the winning position. This explains Loki's scheming: since he chooses the turn order, he can keep us in an ODD number of ends from the get-go.
EDIT: Oh wow, using the carved names was a plot-twist I didn't expect!
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thenumberpie314
And uhh excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a much easier way to solve the puzzle:
We are going to prove that you have no winning lines:
This is a fully deterministic game. That is, there is a strategy that one of the players can follow to make sure they win. There's only two players here: the one who goes first and the one who goes second. Loki can choose which one he wants to be, so no matter the starting position, Loki can choose to be the winning player, making it impossible for you to win.
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And uhh excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a much easier way to solve the puzzle:
We are going to prove that you have no winning lines:
This is a fully deterministic game. That is, there is a strategy that one of the players can follow to make sure they win. There's only two players here: the one who goes first and the one who goes second. Loki can choose which one he wants to be, so no matter the starting position, Loki can choose to be the winning player, making it impossible for you to win.
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TheRMeerkerk
My first guess would be zero, because then there are no moves that can be made. If he says that he will go first, then he doesn't win because he didn't make the last valid move. If he says that you go first, then he still can't win because he hasn't made a valid move yet. You didn't win either because carving the crosses is not counted as a move as far as I understand, but you didn't really lose either.
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My first guess would be zero, because then there are no moves that can be made. If he says that he will go first, then he doesn't win because he didn't make the last valid move. If he says that you go first, then he still can't win because he hasn't made a valid move yet. You didn't win either because carving the crosses is not counted as a move as far as I understand, but you didn't really lose either.
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eshelsh1905
This doesn't solve the riddle - Loki can just decide to go second.
There's a much simpler way to look at the riddle: from every starting position, one player (either #1 or #2) will win (obviously, since the game has a finite number of turns. Thus, if Loki can decide who goes first, he's already won - no matter what position you carve, he will choose the fitting turn.
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This doesn't solve the riddle - Loki can just decide to go second.
There's a much simpler way to look at the riddle: from every starting position, one player (either #1 or #2) will win (obviously, since the game has a finite number of turns. Thus, if Loki can decide who goes first, he's already won - no matter what position you carve, he will choose the fitting turn.
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philipbao3725
We can use algebra here, all games start with a number of crosses, we can call n, starting at 1 region and n clusters. We can state C=n and R=1, each move either connects two clusters into one, or splits a region into two, so either C goes down one or R goes up one. All games end at R=4n and C=1, so the number of moves we can make is 4n-1n-1=5n-2
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We can use algebra here, all games start with a number of crosses, we can call n, starting at 1 region and n clusters. We can state C=n and R=1, each move either connects two clusters into one, or splits a region into two, so either C goes down one or R goes up one. All games end at R=4n and C=1, so the number of moves we can make is 4n-1n-1=5n-2
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eRic-hr3yl
But in the last part when tricking Loki you're actually making an illegal move. The rule explicitly says that ''only the short segments carved AT THE END OF TURNS and crosses may be used'', but the cross in Odin's name was not carved at the end of a turn, it was carved in the setup before the game. Loki already predicted this move and ruled it out
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But in the last part when tricking Loki you're actually making an illegal move. The rule explicitly says that ''only the short segments carved AT THE END OF TURNS and crosses may be used'', but the cross in Odin's name was not carved at the end of a turn, it was carved in the setup before the game. Loki already predicted this move and ruled it out
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education
Take any game with: perfect information, no draws, guaranteed termination, alternating turns, player 1 chooses the (symmetrical) set up and player 2 chooses who go first.
For any arbitrary set up player 1 makes there must be a wining strategy to eith the first or second player. Player 2 can always choose to be in a wining position.
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Take any game with: perfect information, no draws, guaranteed termination, alternating turns, player 1 chooses the (symmetrical) set up and player 2 chooses who go first.
For any arbitrary set up player 1 makes there must be a wining strategy to eith the first or second player. Player 2 can always choose to be in a wining position.
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TheRMeerkerk
Ugh, really! I hate this riddle. I interpreted rule 4 basically the opposite way as it was supposed to. Also the whole explanation of lives and having a single one per region only makes sense if you are actually going to play him fairly. But he decides who goes first, so it makes no sense to make that in-depth analysis.
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Ugh, really! I hate this riddle. I interpreted rule 4 basically the opposite way as it was supposed to. Also the whole explanation of lives and having a single one per region only makes sense if you are actually going to play him fairly. But he decides who goes first, so it makes no sense to make that in-depth analysis.
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j. r. 1210
When the instructions take up an entire screenful of fine print and the explanation drags on with diagram after diagram, it's not a riddle. It's just another contrived game-playing or algorithmic exercise. This stuff is so tedious. And in this case, the solution is a ridiculous gimmick.
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When the instructions take up an entire screenful of fine print and the explanation drags on with diagram after diagram, it's not a riddle. It's just another contrived game-playing or algorithmic exercise. This stuff is so tedious. And in this case, the solution is a ridiculous gimmick.
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philipbao3725
C=4, R=1, M=0, 4 crosses as square corners.
C=1, R=1, M=3, make three edges.
C=1, R=2, M=4, finish square, inside region has 4 points, outside has 12.
C=1, R=5, M=7, all inside points are isolated.
C=1, R=16, M=18, all outside points isolated.
And we’re done
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C=4, R=1, M=0, 4 crosses as square corners.
C=1, R=1, M=3, make three edges.
C=1, R=2, M=4, finish square, inside region has 4 points, outside has 12.
C=1, R=5, M=7, all inside points are isolated.
C=1, R=16, M=18, all outside points isolated.
And we’re done
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fullestegg
There's an easier way to see that the game is rigged: this game has no ties, and any sutch finite game must have one of the players win at some point, even with perfect strategy from both sides, so if you can choose what player you are, you can always win this game.
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There's an easier way to see that the game is rigged: this game has no ties, and any sutch finite game must have one of the players win at some point, even with perfect strategy from both sides, so if you can choose what player you are, you can always win this game.
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shadowzlie
I recognized the necessity of an out of the box solution but came up with a different one. I chose to draw NO crosses, which would mean no matter what, no moves would be possible. Since my choice to not draw crosses counts as the last valid move, I would win.
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I recognized the necessity of an out of the box solution but came up with a different one. I chose to draw NO crosses, which would mean no matter what, no moves would be possible. Since my choice to not draw crosses counts as the last valid move, I would win.
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joe_z
I mean, just from the start, you can tell that this is a combinatorial game, i. e. there's always a winning strategy for one of the two players. So Loki would be able to choose to win or lose at the start no matter what.
There had to be a trick of some sort.
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I mean, just from the start, you can tell that this is a combinatorial game, i. e. there's always a winning strategy for one of the two players. So Loki would be able to choose to win or lose at the start no matter what.
There had to be a trick of some sort.
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xyrissavage4983
i immediatly recognised the game from the vsauce2 video about sprouts, and hearing that loki could choose which turn he could play on, i thought this was compleatly unwinnable. i loved seeing the clever little workaround. I love these riddle videos
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i immediatly recognised the game from the vsauce2 video about sprouts, and hearing that loki could choose which turn he could play on, i thought this was compleatly unwinnable. i loved seeing the clever little workaround. I love these riddle videos
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corymorimacori1059
I’m the grumpy old troll who’s under the bridge. Hey! I’m a grumpy old troll who is under the bridge. Who’s there If you wanna come over, all you have to do is this. All you have to do is this, solve my riddles. Grumpy Old Troll
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I’m the grumpy old troll who’s under the bridge. Hey! I’m a grumpy old troll who is under the bridge. Who’s there If you wanna come over, all you have to do is this. All you have to do is this, solve my riddles. Grumpy Old Troll
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eshelsh1905
This is the first truly bad TedEd riddle. Some have been poorly explained or confusing, but this one is just plain wrong- we have no inclination to believe Loki overlooked the letter, especially not since he's the one who set up the game.
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This is the first truly bad TedEd riddle. Some have been poorly explained or confusing, but this one is just plain wrong- we have no inclination to believe Loki overlooked the letter, especially not since he's the one who set up the game.
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GordonHugenay
Pausing before the solution: in any case, it's impossible to win, because Loki always chooses to go first or second, so he can always choose the one that doesn't lose assuming perfect strategy. Best we can hope for is to force a draw.
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Pausing before the solution: in any case, it's impossible to win, because Loki always chooses to go first or second, so he can always choose the one that doesn't lose assuming perfect strategy. Best we can hope for is to force a draw.
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HopeRock425
Me: uses cross in my name to trick the tickster god
Loki: uses cros on his o to win again
In total I see 1 start cross, 1 on loki and 3 in my name. And yes they are 4 point croses, the conections on them don't count.
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Me: uses cross in my name to trick the tickster god
Loki: uses cros on his o to win again
In total I see 1 start cross, 1 on loki and 3 in my name. And yes they are 4 point croses, the conections on them don't count.
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ted_ed
The easier way to see that loki always wins is that the game can't end in a draw. So, assuming optimal play, either the person going first or the person going second wins every time. Loki can just pick whichever that is
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The easier way to see that loki always wins is that the game can't end in a draw. So, assuming optimal play, either the person going first or the person going second wins every time. Loki can just pick whichever that is
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pingu875
THE NAME STUFF ISNT EVEN IN THE LIST OF RULES. Like I know it was mentioned but when you write out what appears to be a logic riddle on the rules slide you have to mention that. Cmon. Legit worst ending to a video ever
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THE NAME STUFF ISNT EVEN IN THE LIST OF RULES. Like I know it was mentioned but when you write out what appears to be a logic riddle on the rules slide you have to mention that. Cmon. Legit worst ending to a video ever
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