Mary's Room: A philosophical thought experiment - Eleanor Nelsen
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Date: 2020-08-22
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Comments and reviews: 10
Nataly
Hello. Mary could not learn something new from the red Apple, because she would never see one. She would never see the malfunction. You see, in the eye we have two types of cells: cones and rods. Rods can see light and contrast; thus allowing you to see dark and bright, and were born with them fully developed. Cones, on the other hand, allow us to see color and need stimulation to fully develop after birth. So, someone who has never been exposed to color before, could not properly develop their cones in order to see the red Apple. At most, she might see a reddish kind of gray that she would brush off. Anyway, that fact does not solve the qualia problem, because, truth is, Mary would probably develop a different scale to what color is. Living among gray, she would become very proficient in differentiating shades; and would associate them with the names of the colors shes learn about. She would name red a shade of gray that has similar physical properties according to her books. and she, who has never seen red, would never know that she has never done so.
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Hello. Mary could not learn something new from the red Apple, because she would never see one. She would never see the malfunction. You see, in the eye we have two types of cells: cones and rods. Rods can see light and contrast; thus allowing you to see dark and bright, and were born with them fully developed. Cones, on the other hand, allow us to see color and need stimulation to fully develop after birth. So, someone who has never been exposed to color before, could not properly develop their cones in order to see the red Apple. At most, she might see a reddish kind of gray that she would brush off. Anyway, that fact does not solve the qualia problem, because, truth is, Mary would probably develop a different scale to what color is. Living among gray, she would become very proficient in differentiating shades; and would associate them with the names of the colors shes learn about. She would name red a shade of gray that has similar physical properties according to her books. and she, who has never seen red, would never know that she has never done so.
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Zita
I admit I've never been a big fan of philosophy, but just because you can't substitute an experience with extensive knowledge about it, it doesn't necessarily mean there is something about it beyond the physical level. Like you can learn as much as you want about hiking in the mountains, but going actually out will naturally be different, because you feel the fresh air on your face and in your nose, you feel the activity in your muscles and you see the beautiful landscape with your eyes. All this activates hormones and whatnot in your body and you experience directly all those things, but it's still very physical and real, you don't have to mistify it. Or an even simpler example: you can learn about the anatomy and physiological processes behind feeling pain, but, surprise, it's not the same as feeling pain when you cut your finger, even though it's happening through those pain receptors you learned about.
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I admit I've never been a big fan of philosophy, but just because you can't substitute an experience with extensive knowledge about it, it doesn't necessarily mean there is something about it beyond the physical level. Like you can learn as much as you want about hiking in the mountains, but going actually out will naturally be different, because you feel the fresh air on your face and in your nose, you feel the activity in your muscles and you see the beautiful landscape with your eyes. All this activates hormones and whatnot in your body and you experience directly all those things, but it's still very physical and real, you don't have to mistify it. Or an even simpler example: you can learn about the anatomy and physiological processes behind feeling pain, but, surprise, it's not the same as feeling pain when you cut your finger, even though it's happening through those pain receptors you learned about.
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EnchantedGamer9
We can actually think about ourselves as Mary, there is a species, I can't remember the name, that can see 22 distinct colors, while we only see 3. Dogs are the same way, they only have 2 color receptors. But if we were to understand everything about the animal that can't see 22 different colors, we would never really comprehend what it looks like. Let me prove this, I want you to, right now, think of a new color, try to visualize, something that is not just a mix match or different shade of we what we know, but something entirely different. Can you? See, no matter how much we learn about it, we will never be able to, our minds can only be conditioned to what we know ourselves to be true, everything else is impossible.
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We can actually think about ourselves as Mary, there is a species, I can't remember the name, that can see 22 distinct colors, while we only see 3. Dogs are the same way, they only have 2 color receptors. But if we were to understand everything about the animal that can't see 22 different colors, we would never really comprehend what it looks like. Let me prove this, I want you to, right now, think of a new color, try to visualize, something that is not just a mix match or different shade of we what we know, but something entirely different. Can you? See, no matter how much we learn about it, we will never be able to, our minds can only be conditioned to what we know ourselves to be true, everything else is impossible.
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Lydia
If she had never seen color and saw an apple, she wouldn't know what color the apple was unless it was written or someone told her. If she knew previously that an apple is red without having ever seen red, then if she sees an apple in color she will have learned something new- what red looks like. If she did not previously know that an apple is red and sees an apple for the first time, then she still learns something new- an apple is red and this is what red looks like.
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If she had never seen color and saw an apple, she wouldn't know what color the apple was unless it was written or someone told her. If she knew previously that an apple is red without having ever seen red, then if she sees an apple in color she will have learned something new- what red looks like. If she did not previously know that an apple is red and sees an apple for the first time, then she still learns something new- an apple is red and this is what red looks like.
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Wildcard
Suppose it's why I hear seeing is believing. I see images and vids of places on TV, books, internet, hear about it from people, but it all kind of paled in comparison to when I actually traveled to those far, far away places and experienced the sights and life personally. It felt like any knowledge I gained elsewhere before was very shorthanded, limited or biased once I get a more full picture for myself.
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Suppose it's why I hear seeing is believing. I see images and vids of places on TV, books, internet, hear about it from people, but it all kind of paled in comparison to when I actually traveled to those far, far away places and experienced the sights and life personally. It felt like any knowledge I gained elsewhere before was very shorthanded, limited or biased once I get a more full picture for myself.
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Akalaider
I would think if she knows everything about colour she would probably not get any new information. The reason why I think this is because she probably had enough similar information to know what is going to happen. It's like when you say to somebody this taste like chicken but. If it's communicated in the right way you already know how the food taste even though you have never tasted it before.
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I would think if she knows everything about colour she would probably not get any new information. The reason why I think this is because she probably had enough similar information to know what is going to happen. It's like when you say to somebody this taste like chicken but. If it's communicated in the right way you already know how the food taste even though you have never tasted it before.
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Olivia
Before I went on vacation to Mexico, I read about this cave of water I would be going to on a trip outside the resort. It sounded so amazing so that's why I bought a ticket to go. When I read about it, it talked about how clear and blue and the water was and how it was life changing. Reading about it was absolutely nothing like experiencing it. It was a totally different concept.
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Before I went on vacation to Mexico, I read about this cave of water I would be going to on a trip outside the resort. It sounded so amazing so that's why I bought a ticket to go. When I read about it, it talked about how clear and blue and the water was and how it was life changing. Reading about it was absolutely nothing like experiencing it. It was a totally different concept.
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Gary
If it's fully explained then you have understood it. The only additional knowledge gained from experiencing it is how the information you already know is translated into experience by your brain and senses. It's not clear that this stops you understanding anything though. Just maybe not how you'd experience that which you understand. Beware extending one aspect to everything.
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If it's fully explained then you have understood it. The only additional knowledge gained from experiencing it is how the information you already know is translated into experience by your brain and senses. It's not clear that this stops you understanding anything though. Just maybe not how you'd experience that which you understand. Beware extending one aspect to everything.
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utube49163
Then what if Mary had never actually seen color by her very own eyes, but had her brain s color - seeing area stimulated and had experienced color in that manner. If she sees the apple on the screen, does it still counts that she d learnt something? Given that the brain stimulation creates the exact same sensations as actually seeing the colors?
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Then what if Mary had never actually seen color by her very own eyes, but had her brain s color - seeing area stimulated and had experienced color in that manner. If she sees the apple on the screen, does it still counts that she d learnt something? Given that the brain stimulation creates the exact same sensations as actually seeing the colors?
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Filip
Interestingly enough, while other branches of philosophy of science has formulated camps that are close to the hard science, philosophy of mind (which could be argued is philosophy of psychology) has gone in the opposite direction:
The camps are fought with pure philosophical arguments.
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Interestingly enough, while other branches of philosophy of science has formulated camps that are close to the hard science, philosophy of mind (which could be argued is philosophy of psychology) has gone in the opposite direction:
The camps are fought with pure philosophical arguments.
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