Can you solve the fantasy election riddle? - Dennis E. Shasha
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Date: 2021-03-25
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Comments and reviews: 10
Ancilon
My solution was first flipping the coin myself, then giving to three people and asking each to in secret flip the coin if they support the tree or leave it the same if they support the troll and give to the other participant, until the last participant gives it back to me, no participant would know what the others voted because they dont know the initial flip, and i wouldnt know who voted what, only if i had an even or odd number of tree supporters by comparing the final to initial result.
Then i could average the number of odd or even numbers until the pooling sample, in this case if its even i average 0 and 2 that gives 1, or odd i average 1 and 3, giving 2, and add this number for the tree and the total minus the number for the other participant.
The sample number can also be any odd number of people, lower numbers would be more accurate but traceability would be lower on higher numbers.
What do you guys think?
reply
My solution was first flipping the coin myself, then giving to three people and asking each to in secret flip the coin if they support the tree or leave it the same if they support the troll and give to the other participant, until the last participant gives it back to me, no participant would know what the others voted because they dont know the initial flip, and i wouldnt know who voted what, only if i had an even or odd number of tree supporters by comparing the final to initial result.
Then i could average the number of odd or even numbers until the pooling sample, in this case if its even i average 0 and 2 that gives 1, or odd i average 1 and 3, giving 2, and add this number for the tree and the total minus the number for the other participant.
The sample number can also be any odd number of people, lower numbers would be more accurate but traceability would be lower on higher numbers.
What do you guys think?
reply
Abhi
Hey, this one doesn't make sense.
If you're asking everyone to flip a coin, and always say Troll if it lands head, you're effectively not counting them at all because you don't even know if they support troll or tree.
Say out of 100, 55 actually support trolls and 45 actually support tree.
Now 50% of the population on random will get heads (always trolls. Let's suppose all who got heads actually preferred troll. You're result would still be 55 troll and 45 tree. Now you'll remove 50 trolls as 50% were forced troll. Your final result is 5 troll and 45 tree, a huge win for tree.
But in reality, troll is still the majority. You're getting skewed results because you nullified 50% of voters. That's bad.
This one doesn't make sense to me.
reply
Hey, this one doesn't make sense.
If you're asking everyone to flip a coin, and always say Troll if it lands head, you're effectively not counting them at all because you don't even know if they support troll or tree.
Say out of 100, 55 actually support trolls and 45 actually support tree.
Now 50% of the population on random will get heads (always trolls. Let's suppose all who got heads actually preferred troll. You're result would still be 55 troll and 45 tree. Now you'll remove 50 trolls as 50% were forced troll. Your final result is 5 troll and 45 tree, a huge win for tree.
But in reality, troll is still the majority. You're getting skewed results because you nullified 50% of voters. That's bad.
This one doesn't make sense to me.
reply
Suhanee
My answer for the second riddle: Just tell them to say Troll for heads and Dragon for tails. But each time, say this sentence, You know, this system is flawed. U flip the coin and I don't know if u got heads or tails. So u could say Troll and I'd never know if u actually like him or it's the coin As much as I know people, most will tell their true preference. Ted Ed, the riddle was statistic, but otherwise, what do u think of this?
reply
My answer for the second riddle: Just tell them to say Troll for heads and Dragon for tails. But each time, say this sentence, You know, this system is flawed. U flip the coin and I don't know if u got heads or tails. So u could say Troll and I'd never know if u actually like him or it's the coin As much as I know people, most will tell their true preference. Ted Ed, the riddle was statistic, but otherwise, what do u think of this?
reply
Сева
Whaaaat?
We use coin because we doesn't sure whether our electors tell truth or not. But then we ask to tell their real preferences and in this case we believe them. Why? Because according to rules they will follow our instructions? Seriously? So we can just ask them to tell their real preference.
Or i missed something?
reply
Whaaaat?
We use coin because we doesn't sure whether our electors tell truth or not. But then we ask to tell their real preferences and in this case we believe them. Why? Because according to rules they will follow our instructions? Seriously? So we can just ask them to tell their real preference.
Or i missed something?
reply
Refrash
SPOILERS note that in the first riddle the coin wasn't necessary anyway. if he had just asked people and wrote down what they said, lie or not, he would have predicted correctly. Sure, the coin allows one to make sure due to the possibility that the troll could have won the first election but he didn't.
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SPOILERS note that in the first riddle the coin wasn't necessary anyway. if he had just asked people and wrote down what they said, lie or not, he would have predicted correctly. Sure, the coin allows one to make sure due to the possibility that the troll could have won the first election but he didn't.
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frankydman
So why are we holding elections again?
Well, it all started when a peasant came up to me and said that strange warriors fighting on dragons was no basis for a system of government, and that supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical jousting ceremony
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So why are we holding elections again?
Well, it all started when a peasant came up to me and said that strange warriors fighting on dragons was no basis for a system of government, and that supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical jousting ceremony
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Sadiq
I dont understand how this works, even if you subtract the coin flips which were determined by probability, you dont know the real preference of those voters and theyre preference might be enough to tip the poll the other way. It seems like the subtracted tosses dont matter though for some reason?
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I dont understand how this works, even if you subtract the coin flips which were determined by probability, you dont know the real preference of those voters and theyre preference might be enough to tip the poll the other way. It seems like the subtracted tosses dont matter though for some reason?
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Abhuday
What if we masked a different voting choice for each consecutive house, say we let the first house vote their preference if tails and vote troll if heads and we let the next house vote dragon if heads and their preference if tails, would that be correct too?
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What if we masked a different voting choice for each consecutive house, say we let the first house vote their preference if tails and vote troll if heads and we let the next house vote dragon if heads and their preference if tails, would that be correct too?
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RENEE
Me: okay, so there's probably gonna be some sort of trick with the coin, or maybe this guy is gonna give me a magic spell that makes the coin do some weird thing for the riddle.
Ted-Ed: Now get an accurate poll.
Me: Wait, where is the information?
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Me: okay, so there's probably gonna be some sort of trick with the coin, or maybe this guy is gonna give me a magic spell that makes the coin do some weird thing for the riddle.
Ted-Ed: Now get an accurate poll.
Me: Wait, where is the information?
reply
Harsh
Hold up for the first case how can we be so confident that exactly 50 percent of all flips were heads or even if all people wil tell their true opinion or the troll cause they can just tell any regardless of the coin flip so please explain this
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Hold up for the first case how can we be so confident that exactly 50 percent of all flips were heads or even if all people wil tell their true opinion or the troll cause they can just tell any regardless of the coin flip so please explain this
reply
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