HW News - Silent RTX 4080 Changes, Cheaper AMD Motherboards, Official Star Trek PC Case
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Date: 2023-02-01
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Comments and reviews: 14
mapesdhs
9:52 - The absence of POST debug display (and power/reset buttons) is not something specific to entry level mbds. I can't be the only one who's noticed that almost all modern mbds don't have these features anymore, especially AMD models, and the shift to not including them has been going on for a while, since before Ryzen kicked off.
It's asburd, we know they are very cheap to include, because low cost mbds from years ago had them, such as the Asrock P55 Extreme. They ought to be standard on all mbds by now, so why has the cost gone up yet the inclusion of these basics almost vanished?
When I bought an X470 way back, it was hard to find any model that did have them, again with the 500 series, but it's much worse now, ie. plenty of far more expensive X670/E mbds don't have them either, ditto Z790.
This is both hidden inflation and corporate penny pinching. We pay more but receive less. For the overall sense of what one received, I think PC mbd tech peaked with X58, P55, X79 and P67/Z68, SKUs such as the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Rampage IV Extreme, Asrock X58 Extreme6, Asrock P55 Deluxe, ASUS P7P55 WS Supercomputer, ASUS Maximus IV Extreme/Z and P9X79/-E WS (I was more familiar with ASUS/Asrock back then). Look at what was included on those boards, soooo design innovation and extras like PLEX/NF200 ICs for extra PCIe. Heck, even the S775 ASUS Striker II Extreme impresses me more than modern mbds. My current gaming system has an MSI B450 Tomahawk Max II which works well, but there's nothing interesting about it, just does the job without fuss, whereas the old setup with an ASUS M4E is still a really impressive board, just out of date.
Perhaps part of it is also the degree to which functionality has been moved onto the CPU, but there's still scope for innovation and uniqueness, which alas seems to be slipping away, while prices keep rising. Buildzoid pointed out that modern CPUs have so much I/O and included functionality, a manufacturer could even make a mbd with no chipset at all, which would surely be cheaper; he expressed surprise that nobody had tried this yet. There's more than enough I/O directly from a modern CPU to provide all the usual necessities such as GigE, multiple SATA3, PCIe, USB3, etc. A low cost board doesn't need Gen5 NVMe, or indeed Gen5 PCIe for GPU, so use some of the PCIe lanes for something else.
Which is all to say, mbd tech has become boring and expensive at the same time, but people have become addicted to NVMe and having the latest PCIe for GPUs despite there being no solid rationale for either in most use cases. I'd rather have additional front panel fast TypeC USB ports.
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9:52 - The absence of POST debug display (and power/reset buttons) is not something specific to entry level mbds. I can't be the only one who's noticed that almost all modern mbds don't have these features anymore, especially AMD models, and the shift to not including them has been going on for a while, since before Ryzen kicked off.
It's asburd, we know they are very cheap to include, because low cost mbds from years ago had them, such as the Asrock P55 Extreme. They ought to be standard on all mbds by now, so why has the cost gone up yet the inclusion of these basics almost vanished?
When I bought an X470 way back, it was hard to find any model that did have them, again with the 500 series, but it's much worse now, ie. plenty of far more expensive X670/E mbds don't have them either, ditto Z790.
This is both hidden inflation and corporate penny pinching. We pay more but receive less. For the overall sense of what one received, I think PC mbd tech peaked with X58, P55, X79 and P67/Z68, SKUs such as the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Rampage IV Extreme, Asrock X58 Extreme6, Asrock P55 Deluxe, ASUS P7P55 WS Supercomputer, ASUS Maximus IV Extreme/Z and P9X79/-E WS (I was more familiar with ASUS/Asrock back then). Look at what was included on those boards, soooo design innovation and extras like PLEX/NF200 ICs for extra PCIe. Heck, even the S775 ASUS Striker II Extreme impresses me more than modern mbds. My current gaming system has an MSI B450 Tomahawk Max II which works well, but there's nothing interesting about it, just does the job without fuss, whereas the old setup with an ASUS M4E is still a really impressive board, just out of date.
Perhaps part of it is also the degree to which functionality has been moved onto the CPU, but there's still scope for innovation and uniqueness, which alas seems to be slipping away, while prices keep rising. Buildzoid pointed out that modern CPUs have so much I/O and included functionality, a manufacturer could even make a mbd with no chipset at all, which would surely be cheaper; he expressed surprise that nobody had tried this yet. There's more than enough I/O directly from a modern CPU to provide all the usual necessities such as GigE, multiple SATA3, PCIe, USB3, etc. A low cost board doesn't need Gen5 NVMe, or indeed Gen5 PCIe for GPU, so use some of the PCIe lanes for something else.
Which is all to say, mbd tech has become boring and expensive at the same time, but people have become addicted to NVMe and having the latest PCIe for GPUs despite there being no solid rationale for either in most use cases. I'd rather have additional front panel fast TypeC USB ports.
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HuddledEragon
I do have a feeling as soon as is Windows 10 has reached end of life span this is when a lot more people will move to to the Linux operating system, because we all know the Windows 11 just sucks and we all hate the fact that we have to be forced to sign in and I know there's work around you can get into the operating system without signing in but I do have a feeling Microsoft will figure out how to stop people from doing that because they want to to force us to be signed in all the time while I'll watching what we're doing.
By then I believe the steam deck like operating system will already figure out how to make nvidia graphics cards work properly or by that time Valve could release the steam deck operating system to the public, basically I'm saying Microsoft is trying to force people yet again to take an operating system the people most probably do not want use for example look at Windows 8, Windows Vista and other old unpopular Windows operating system as well, but with those terrible operating systems they have brought out better version then those and this time I have a feeling they're not going to do that because look how big corporations are acting these days.
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I do have a feeling as soon as is Windows 10 has reached end of life span this is when a lot more people will move to to the Linux operating system, because we all know the Windows 11 just sucks and we all hate the fact that we have to be forced to sign in and I know there's work around you can get into the operating system without signing in but I do have a feeling Microsoft will figure out how to stop people from doing that because they want to to force us to be signed in all the time while I'll watching what we're doing.
By then I believe the steam deck like operating system will already figure out how to make nvidia graphics cards work properly or by that time Valve could release the steam deck operating system to the public, basically I'm saying Microsoft is trying to force people yet again to take an operating system the people most probably do not want use for example look at Windows 8, Windows Vista and other old unpopular Windows operating system as well, but with those terrible operating systems they have brought out better version then those and this time I have a feeling they're not going to do that because look how big corporations are acting these days.
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Condor
The one _and only_ thing I could see the drone camera being good for is only needing one of those (per floor) instead of X amount of cameras. Depending on how much you want covered, a single drone (per floor) could _potentially_ be more cost effective than an array of cameras. Of course this introduces a totally new problem in which the drone will have to take time to navigate around the house to see it all (or where you want to look), and it's outstandingly loud. So on top of potentially _not_ seeing whoever it is that's trying to break into your house because the drone both takes too long to reach the destination, it's also so loud that it likely spook alert the intruder and give them ample amount of time to react anyways. At that point, there's no practicality when a few cameras and an alarm system would do the same job but better.
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The one _and only_ thing I could see the drone camera being good for is only needing one of those (per floor) instead of X amount of cameras. Depending on how much you want covered, a single drone (per floor) could _potentially_ be more cost effective than an array of cameras. Of course this introduces a totally new problem in which the drone will have to take time to navigate around the house to see it all (or where you want to look), and it's outstandingly loud. So on top of potentially _not_ seeing whoever it is that's trying to break into your house because the drone both takes too long to reach the destination, it's also so loud that it likely spook alert the intruder and give them ample amount of time to react anyways. At that point, there's no practicality when a few cameras and an alarm system would do the same job but better.
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HWI
I can tell you a use case for that drone camera, people that travel for work for long periods of time. For instance, I have been on travel out of state for work for 9 months straight. I do actually have a Ring alarm, so this would integrate easy for me. I do have exterior and interior cameras, the exterior cameras are always operational, the interior cameras are unplugged when the house is occupied. This would be a product that would be unplugged while I am in town, it would see use while I am on travel. The benefit is that it could cover the entire house rather than just the static locations my current cameras can see, it would provide additional peace of mind. I can definitely see the cons to this product and think it is kind of dumb for almost everyone, but I believe it would be kind of nice for my particular case.
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I can tell you a use case for that drone camera, people that travel for work for long periods of time. For instance, I have been on travel out of state for work for 9 months straight. I do actually have a Ring alarm, so this would integrate easy for me. I do have exterior and interior cameras, the exterior cameras are always operational, the interior cameras are unplugged when the house is occupied. This would be a product that would be unplugged while I am in town, it would see use while I am on travel. The benefit is that it could cover the entire house rather than just the static locations my current cameras can see, it would provide additional peace of mind. I can definitely see the cons to this product and think it is kind of dumb for almost everyone, but I believe it would be kind of nice for my particular case.
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Jadadpe
I think the difference between past a and b series chipsets and current ones is that this generation board partners seem to be overbuilding and over-featuring their boards which increases the price. The B650 and more noticeably B650E chipset motherboards seem to be almost on par with what an x-class motherboard was back during ryzen 5000 and 3000. For this reason, A620 motherboards may be more similar to what a B450 or B550 was offering previously? Correct me if I'm wrong. The prices are still slightly too high regardless (full size B650E should be around 180-190), but it's interesting to think about.
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I think the difference between past a and b series chipsets and current ones is that this generation board partners seem to be overbuilding and over-featuring their boards which increases the price. The B650 and more noticeably B650E chipset motherboards seem to be almost on par with what an x-class motherboard was back during ryzen 5000 and 3000. For this reason, A620 motherboards may be more similar to what a B450 or B550 was offering previously? Correct me if I'm wrong. The prices are still slightly too high regardless (full size B650E should be around 180-190), but it's interesting to think about.
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Tappy
The older Debian SteamOS should not be recommended. Until SteamOS 3 gets an official standard distribution the easiest distro to recommend to gamers unfamiliar with Linux is probably Ubuntu 22.04 (if they have new hardware maybe 22.10, but they'll then have to upgrade to 23.04 in april as anything that's not an even-numbered april release is not supported for long). Many people will also recommend pop_os, or fedora, or arch, but as you go down the list the more likely you are to encounter issues that a novice shouldn't have to deal with IMO.
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The older Debian SteamOS should not be recommended. Until SteamOS 3 gets an official standard distribution the easiest distro to recommend to gamers unfamiliar with Linux is probably Ubuntu 22.04 (if they have new hardware maybe 22.10, but they'll then have to upgrade to 23.04 in april as anything that's not an even-numbered april release is not supported for long). Many people will also recommend pop_os, or fedora, or arch, but as you go down the list the more likely you are to encounter issues that a novice shouldn't have to deal with IMO.
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Geordie
ATi tried releasing a rumour of hidden performance boost locked behind drivers on the radeon 9700pro, all to get consumers to run out and buy the card, it wasn't needed, it was a beast at the time, but the driver team as per normal wrecked the legacy, and nvidia overtook with solid hardware releases instead of incremental speed bumps...
Generally, if positive performance rumours start, then they are fake, and are trying to force people into buying hardware because its not moving....
Oh wait....
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ATi tried releasing a rumour of hidden performance boost locked behind drivers on the radeon 9700pro, all to get consumers to run out and buy the card, it wasn't needed, it was a beast at the time, but the driver team as per normal wrecked the legacy, and nvidia overtook with solid hardware releases instead of incremental speed bumps...
Generally, if positive performance rumours start, then they are fake, and are trying to force people into buying hardware because its not moving....
Oh wait....
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Black
That surveillance drone is the coolest thing ever, I want some. 3 floors so we'll need 3.
Just fyi, don't clap your hands at your microphone, it's super annoying and very unprofessional.
As for fan technology have you looked into toroidal fan blades? Much quieter and more efficient in both air and water. I 3d printed some up for my PC fans and it's so much quieter and cooler with just that change and no other. It's quieter than my liquid cooled system with ordinary fans on the radiators.
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That surveillance drone is the coolest thing ever, I want some. 3 floors so we'll need 3.
Just fyi, don't clap your hands at your microphone, it's super annoying and very unprofessional.
As for fan technology have you looked into toroidal fan blades? Much quieter and more efficient in both air and water. I 3d printed some up for my PC fans and it's so much quieter and cooler with just that change and no other. It's quieter than my liquid cooled system with ordinary fans on the radiators.
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felderup
for the school drive, get some stuff like the tern controller boards, modern ones, the original stuff is damn expensive, esp32 boards are cheap, and they can take em home. also, 8051 based dev hardware might be fun, a LOT of car controllers use c code on chips like that, truly ancient, it's a good career path for some, there might even be some good to open sourcing replacement code to fix the car manufacturers trash.
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for the school drive, get some stuff like the tern controller boards, modern ones, the original stuff is damn expensive, esp32 boards are cheap, and they can take em home. also, 8051 based dev hardware might be fun, a LOT of car controllers use c code on chips like that, truly ancient, it's a good career path for some, there might even be some good to open sourcing replacement code to fix the car manufacturers trash.
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XFourty7
If that company makes a case that has speakers + side-running (Using dedicated hardware) an AI that would use the voice / samples of Q / John De Lancie and harass the user, I'd probably actually buy that LOL.
Hello there, why are you spending so much processing power on some weird game called 'Arma 3'? You'd probably be better off using those resources helping yourself. -Q / my computer lmao :D
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If that company makes a case that has speakers + side-running (Using dedicated hardware) an AI that would use the voice / samples of Q / John De Lancie and harass the user, I'd probably actually buy that LOL.
Hello there, why are you spending so much processing power on some weird game called 'Arma 3'? You'd probably be better off using those resources helping yourself. -Q / my computer lmao :D
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tocsa120ls
5:50 moving the voltage comparator _inside_ the die means that after locking down their VBIOS, now you're completely locked out of voltage adjustments. The way overclockers did it was to modify the reference voltage of the comparator, and thereby the output voltage. You could see Vince doing this with that perfboard/pots contraption. Say bye to that.
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5:50 moving the voltage comparator _inside_ the die means that after locking down their VBIOS, now you're completely locked out of voltage adjustments. The way overclockers did it was to modify the reference voltage of the comparator, and thereby the output voltage. You could see Vince doing this with that perfboard/pots contraption. Say bye to that.
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Birki
If Microsoft wants me to upgrade to Win 11. They need to make it a meaningful improvement over win 10. As of now, it's nothing but a pain in the ass getting used to a new OS.
As of now, my laptop is win 11 and my desktop is win 10. Ive yet to run into a single situation where 11 is clearly better.
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If Microsoft wants me to upgrade to Win 11. They need to make it a meaningful improvement over win 10. As of now, it's nothing but a pain in the ass getting used to a new OS.
As of now, my laptop is win 11 and my desktop is win 10. Ive yet to run into a single situation where 11 is clearly better.
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Aluveitie
The ASRock card does the same that X670 does, connecting a second chipset chip by PCIe x4. If you need more I/O then it would be cheaper to buy X670 in the first place. But it would allow to buy B650 and upgrade to X670 later when needed, but at a premium over buying X670 in the first place.
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The ASRock card does the same that X670 does, connecting a second chipset chip by PCIe x4. If you need more I/O then it would be cheaper to buy X670 in the first place. But it would allow to buy B650 and upgrade to X670 later when needed, but at a premium over buying X670 in the first place.
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fierydawn
Time to get a proper external back-up I guess and equip it with a face mask. So that when Windows 10 automatically boots up in the middle of the night to secretly update OS, I can just purge the drives and not worry about data-loss or my backup getting infected with Win-11.
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Time to get a proper external back-up I guess and equip it with a face mask. So that when Windows 10 automatically boots up in the middle of the night to secretly update OS, I can just purge the drives and not worry about data-loss or my backup getting infected with Win-11.
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