A New Type of Computer Case - HAVN HS 420 Thermal Benchmarks & Review
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Date: 2024-10-17
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Comments and reviews: 20
Laokoon7
Amazing review, as always.
As an enthusiast, I would like to suggest one thing I would LOVE to see in reviews of cases - especially expensive ones (important suggestion at the end of this comment):
Pick a good (best) fan model for all usual sizes (so 120 and 140 realistically, perhaps 160, 180, 200mm in the longer run) and for each case, try to achieve best thermal and acoustic results while using an unlimited number of aforementioned fans while using a standardized set of top-tier/hot parts (mostly GPU and CPU). And do this for vertical and horizontal GPU option, maybe with air/AIO CPU cooling (a total of 4 options, with a standardized air/aio cooler of course).
My rationale is:
1. When building a PC that uses one of the most expensive components (CPU/GPU), I can see myself spending extra even on a large number of top tier (i.e. Noctua) fans to achieve the best results.
2. I see this as the best and possibly the only way to make a relevant comparison of what is achievable with every particular case. I think inclusion of both vertical and horizontal GPU options is important, because at this tier of spending, a desire to display components is pretty common.
3. This fashion of reviewing may encourage case manufacturers:
a) to offer their cases, at least optionally, without fans - something I think would be beneficial to all consumers. I don't think I speak only for myself when I say I would prefer to pay less for the case and not face the dilemma between compromising on thermal/acoustic performance and wasting money on included fans if I'm going to replace them anyways.
b) to focus on what they do best instead of throwing another set of mediocre fans at consumers.
c) to experiment more with new designs as we can see here in HAVN HS 420
I realize this is a lot of work, especially if you were to do this for every clone of Lian Li o11 on the market. Therefore, it might be a good idea to either:
a) do this only in reviews of the best and/or most innovative cases
b) once in a while do a showdown video, where you would pick several best and/or most innovative cases from past reviews and try to achieve the best performance with each one. I can see a lot of potential with this format, i.e. every member of your team gets 1 or 2 or 3 of the best performing cases (picked at random) and competes against the others in getting the best results with them, possibly with some fun bets.
EDIT: additional idea for a video: (possibly get a 3d printing sponsor), take some big case with lots of room and go to town with 3d printer making all kinds of shrouds/air guides and see if you can achieve a meaningful improvement in thermal results
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Amazing review, as always.
As an enthusiast, I would like to suggest one thing I would LOVE to see in reviews of cases - especially expensive ones (important suggestion at the end of this comment):
Pick a good (best) fan model for all usual sizes (so 120 and 140 realistically, perhaps 160, 180, 200mm in the longer run) and for each case, try to achieve best thermal and acoustic results while using an unlimited number of aforementioned fans while using a standardized set of top-tier/hot parts (mostly GPU and CPU). And do this for vertical and horizontal GPU option, maybe with air/AIO CPU cooling (a total of 4 options, with a standardized air/aio cooler of course).
My rationale is:
1. When building a PC that uses one of the most expensive components (CPU/GPU), I can see myself spending extra even on a large number of top tier (i.e. Noctua) fans to achieve the best results.
2. I see this as the best and possibly the only way to make a relevant comparison of what is achievable with every particular case. I think inclusion of both vertical and horizontal GPU options is important, because at this tier of spending, a desire to display components is pretty common.
3. This fashion of reviewing may encourage case manufacturers:
a) to offer their cases, at least optionally, without fans - something I think would be beneficial to all consumers. I don't think I speak only for myself when I say I would prefer to pay less for the case and not face the dilemma between compromising on thermal/acoustic performance and wasting money on included fans if I'm going to replace them anyways.
b) to focus on what they do best instead of throwing another set of mediocre fans at consumers.
c) to experiment more with new designs as we can see here in HAVN HS 420
I realize this is a lot of work, especially if you were to do this for every clone of Lian Li o11 on the market. Therefore, it might be a good idea to either:
a) do this only in reviews of the best and/or most innovative cases
b) once in a while do a showdown video, where you would pick several best and/or most innovative cases from past reviews and try to achieve the best performance with each one. I can see a lot of potential with this format, i.e. every member of your team gets 1 or 2 or 3 of the best performing cases (picked at random) and competes against the others in getting the best results with them, possibly with some fun bets.
EDIT: additional idea for a video: (possibly get a 3d printing sponsor), take some big case with lots of room and go to town with 3d printer making all kinds of shrouds/air guides and see if you can achieve a meaningful improvement in thermal results
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BeardedFrog
Man I hate to make any suggestions/requests at this point given the already extremely high levels of work, attention to detail and methodology you guys do here but I'll toss it out anyway.
1. You guys always use an air cooler for the CPU. Given both the lowering cost of AIOs and the rising levels of CPU heat loads, it would be nice to see tests with 360MM AIO cooler configurations. It would probably shake up the charts quite a bit (likely for the Torrent especially), and it's something that at this point probably applies to a growing majority of the audience.
2. Instead of (or in addition to) the standardised fan test having a specific set of fans that replace stock fans in the case, include a fully loaded configuration. This would be adding fans to everywhere a case has room for them (other than AIO placement spot), _without_ replacing already included stock fans (though allowing for shifting placement of them as needed for optimal AIO location). It's personally what I do, and I think a lot of people do as well when they at least have spare fans already around they can add to their case.
Either way though, you guys are the gold standard for effort/attention to detail on reviews, and your effort does not go unnoticed or appreciated.
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Man I hate to make any suggestions/requests at this point given the already extremely high levels of work, attention to detail and methodology you guys do here but I'll toss it out anyway.
1. You guys always use an air cooler for the CPU. Given both the lowering cost of AIOs and the rising levels of CPU heat loads, it would be nice to see tests with 360MM AIO cooler configurations. It would probably shake up the charts quite a bit (likely for the Torrent especially), and it's something that at this point probably applies to a growing majority of the audience.
2. Instead of (or in addition to) the standardised fan test having a specific set of fans that replace stock fans in the case, include a fully loaded configuration. This would be adding fans to everywhere a case has room for them (other than AIO placement spot), _without_ replacing already included stock fans (though allowing for shifting placement of them as needed for optimal AIO location). It's personally what I do, and I think a lot of people do as well when they at least have spare fans already around they can add to their case.
Either way though, you guys are the gold standard for effort/attention to detail on reviews, and your effort does not go unnoticed or appreciated.
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cppctek
I really love this case! But let’s be real, not many will be using a 4070 ti or an air cpu cooler with this case. I’d love to see high end cases tested with high end hardware like 4090’s to see what’s the worst case scenario if you’re using the best hardware. Also I’d be willing to bet 90% of people will use an aio for cpu cooling also
Thanks for the super detailed review and animations ! I really love this so much. I just really want to see more detailed airflow animations when you’re using high end hardware with a high end case. If I’m spending 270$ on a case I won’t cheap out on anything.
I’ve bought several 250-400$ cases before and always will use whatever the best of the best at the time in them. What suxks is when I do that and the temps are worse than advertised or reviewed because they were not tested or advertised to work with high end hardware. One would only assume a 270$ case would perform better than a 150$ case but in my experience price doesn’t mean performance anymore.
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I really love this case! But let’s be real, not many will be using a 4070 ti or an air cpu cooler with this case. I’d love to see high end cases tested with high end hardware like 4090’s to see what’s the worst case scenario if you’re using the best hardware. Also I’d be willing to bet 90% of people will use an aio for cpu cooling also
Thanks for the super detailed review and animations ! I really love this so much. I just really want to see more detailed airflow animations when you’re using high end hardware with a high end case. If I’m spending 270$ on a case I won’t cheap out on anything.
I’ve bought several 250-400$ cases before and always will use whatever the best of the best at the time in them. What suxks is when I do that and the temps are worse than advertised or reviewed because they were not tested or advertised to work with high end hardware. One would only assume a 270$ case would perform better than a 150$ case but in my experience price doesn’t mean performance anymore.
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ddzwiedziu
7:09 If GPU's had a pass-trough radiator then the vertical mount would made perfect sense for the airflow. Otherwise I'm starting to think that GPU's should be at the end of a airflow of the whole case, or have their own separate flow.
11:50 With my limited fluid mechanics memory I'd say that the hot air would have lower pressure, than the air straight from the bottom fans (smaller GPU fans and going trough and obstacle, after changing direction before and after the GPU fan) . So instead of feeding into the bottom fans, It would rather form a turbulent area separating the two flows. OFC this is not even napkin math, this would be better simulated and the shield alone prevents this.
Still I think it would disrupt the airflow at the CPU.
12:55 Did you thought about making tests with smoke, to see the airflow Smoke, as in a small controlled oil at smoke temperature, as done with aerodynamic tests.
26:25 Yeah...
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7:09 If GPU's had a pass-trough radiator then the vertical mount would made perfect sense for the airflow. Otherwise I'm starting to think that GPU's should be at the end of a airflow of the whole case, or have their own separate flow.
11:50 With my limited fluid mechanics memory I'd say that the hot air would have lower pressure, than the air straight from the bottom fans (smaller GPU fans and going trough and obstacle, after changing direction before and after the GPU fan) . So instead of feeding into the bottom fans, It would rather form a turbulent area separating the two flows. OFC this is not even napkin math, this would be better simulated and the shield alone prevents this.
Still I think it would disrupt the airflow at the CPU.
12:55 Did you thought about making tests with smoke, to see the airflow Smoke, as in a small controlled oil at smoke temperature, as done with aerodynamic tests.
26:25 Yeah...
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adamshettle5391
My reaction to the highly standardized setup, versus more customized setups with narrow peer-to-peer comparisons is something of a goldilocks: configure each case in the manner you would expect the typical buyer of that case to configure it, and include the cost of any non-included fans when doing the comparison.
If it is a high end case that comes with no fans, buy a similar product tier fan, and use the number that you would expect to be used. Not necessarily a minimum, and not necessarily populating all the fan slots, unless that would be reasonably expected. If it is a budget case that comes with a few fans, then only use those fans.
For example, with a Phanteks NV case, I would expect all the fan slots to be populated, and be populated with D30's. The case is meant to be a showpiece. How many people buy it without the intention to populate all the fan slots
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My reaction to the highly standardized setup, versus more customized setups with narrow peer-to-peer comparisons is something of a goldilocks: configure each case in the manner you would expect the typical buyer of that case to configure it, and include the cost of any non-included fans when doing the comparison.
If it is a high end case that comes with no fans, buy a similar product tier fan, and use the number that you would expect to be used. Not necessarily a minimum, and not necessarily populating all the fan slots, unless that would be reasonably expected. If it is a budget case that comes with a few fans, then only use those fans.
For example, with a Phanteks NV case, I would expect all the fan slots to be populated, and be populated with D30's. The case is meant to be a showpiece. How many people buy it without the intention to populate all the fan slots
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DELTA9XTC
I am at 7:13 in the video and already have to say I like it.
I will build a pc with 9800x3D RTX 5090. I dont believe the rumours that the 5090 will only be a 2 slot card. Thats why I def want a big case, with well above 400mm GPU space. Thats why I was looking at the Fractal Meshify 2 (with RGB ofc).
I would def like the look of a verticam mounted 5090. Already bought my motherboars, its the x870e Carbon Wifi by MSI; that one is black. My Corsair Vengeance ram sticks are also not white. So not aure about the colour. I actually would really like a white build, but now it would be white case, maybe white fans, black mobo/ram, white AIO, and then GPU is the question. If O can get it, I will buy the Nvidia Founders Edition. Not sure how that one will look vertically. hmmmm so hard to decide
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I am at 7:13 in the video and already have to say I like it.
I will build a pc with 9800x3D RTX 5090. I dont believe the rumours that the 5090 will only be a 2 slot card. Thats why I def want a big case, with well above 400mm GPU space. Thats why I was looking at the Fractal Meshify 2 (with RGB ofc).
I would def like the look of a verticam mounted 5090. Already bought my motherboars, its the x870e Carbon Wifi by MSI; that one is black. My Corsair Vengeance ram sticks are also not white. So not aure about the colour. I actually would really like a white build, but now it would be white case, maybe white fans, black mobo/ram, white AIO, and then GPU is the question. If O can get it, I will buy the Nvidia Founders Edition. Not sure how that one will look vertically. hmmmm so hard to decide
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photonboy999
ANTEC ONE HUNDRED is still the perfect case...
Why Mostly because it has a coffee holder that I use for USB drives. I'm not exactly joking, but my point is that I carefully planned out my COOLING SETUP with Noctua case fans, a Be Quiet PSU, a Noctua-modded RTX4070 and my PC is dead silent when gaming... I just get baffled when people OVERTHINK case design (speaking in general)... oh, and I hate, hate HATE windows on computers.
IDLE on my PC for most fans is around 300RPM!! Never exceed roughly 600RPM. Dead silent. Yay!
If the GOAL is a silent/quiet PC then buying a great case only gets you so far. A crappy case with great fans, fan profiles (Fan Control software) etc might do a far better job than a great case that hasn't had all fans tuned well.
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ANTEC ONE HUNDRED is still the perfect case...
Why Mostly because it has a coffee holder that I use for USB drives. I'm not exactly joking, but my point is that I carefully planned out my COOLING SETUP with Noctua case fans, a Be Quiet PSU, a Noctua-modded RTX4070 and my PC is dead silent when gaming... I just get baffled when people OVERTHINK case design (speaking in general)... oh, and I hate, hate HATE windows on computers.
IDLE on my PC for most fans is around 300RPM!! Never exceed roughly 600RPM. Dead silent. Yay!
If the GOAL is a silent/quiet PC then buying a great case only gets you so far. A crappy case with great fans, fan profiles (Fan Control software) etc might do a far better job than a great case that hasn't had all fans tuned well.
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Pratalax
Innovation!! Yes! and by goodness they're doing it all so right, i mean sure the special gimmick vgpu doodad didn't work out as one would have hoped but ignoring that, this is absolutely an a showing from them. So much attention to detail (though on that subject 29:30 is probably the slickest thing i've seen you do, my god) and shit, even if it doesn't perform as well as a traditional layout, the vgpu and angled fans look freaking cool. That counts for a lot to me, especially if the performance loss isn't super significant.
This is absolutely what i was hoping to see outta Tryx, i really loved how that thing looked too. Very much looking forward to what both companies do next!
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Innovation!! Yes! and by goodness they're doing it all so right, i mean sure the special gimmick vgpu doodad didn't work out as one would have hoped but ignoring that, this is absolutely an a showing from them. So much attention to detail (though on that subject 29:30 is probably the slickest thing i've seen you do, my god) and shit, even if it doesn't perform as well as a traditional layout, the vgpu and angled fans look freaking cool. That counts for a lot to me, especially if the performance loss isn't super significant.
This is absolutely what i was hoping to see outta Tryx, i really loved how that thing looked too. Very much looking forward to what both companies do next!
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schtinerbock4570
I love this company's attention to detail. May be my next case. My least favorite part of PC building is trying to get the proper mix of 120 and 140mm rgb fans, some with regular exhaust and some with reverse exhaust and have them all somewhat match in appearance and then try to get them all working together with hubs. My biggest desire with cases is if manufacturers provided the full suite of color matching fans, various sizes and flow direction and on a single hub. If I need to remove some then I can do so. For all the headache I go through with friggin fans thanks to being OCD about appearance I would gladly pay double or more case prices for full fan setups.
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I love this company's attention to detail. May be my next case. My least favorite part of PC building is trying to get the proper mix of 120 and 140mm rgb fans, some with regular exhaust and some with reverse exhaust and have them all somewhat match in appearance and then try to get them all working together with hubs. My biggest desire with cases is if manufacturers provided the full suite of color matching fans, various sizes and flow direction and on a single hub. If I need to remove some then I can do so. For all the headache I go through with friggin fans thanks to being OCD about appearance I would gladly pay double or more case prices for full fan setups.
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upforellie
I like the direction you're heading with the new standardized tests. The current ones are too restrictive and flawed because of that. My tweak would be to implement a fan budget using only one brand of fans (like Noctua) to eliminate variables while staying true to the 'spirit of the case.' You’d have a pool of 18 fans (2x200mm, 2x180mm, 2x160mm, 6x140mm, 6x120mm) and optimize layouts based on this 'budget' for each case. This way, cases like the Torrent aren’t unfairly disadvantaged, and you can see real differences between it and something like the O11 Dynamic XL which are widely different cases. Both cases get the best shot, focusing purely on chassis performance.
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I like the direction you're heading with the new standardized tests. The current ones are too restrictive and flawed because of that. My tweak would be to implement a fan budget using only one brand of fans (like Noctua) to eliminate variables while staying true to the 'spirit of the case.' You’d have a pool of 18 fans (2x200mm, 2x180mm, 2x160mm, 6x140mm, 6x120mm) and optimize layouts based on this 'budget' for each case. This way, cases like the Torrent aren’t unfairly disadvantaged, and you can see real differences between it and something like the O11 Dynamic XL which are widely different cases. Both cases get the best shot, focusing purely on chassis performance.
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moldyshishkabob
Admittedly, I am very sad that the different, new ideas were... okay.
That said, the pure attention to detail with cable routing, packaging (minus the one-time-use bags), material quality are awesome. I unfortunately would never buy a Full Tower and would not be interested in this, but I hope HAVN gets to understand that the sheer attention to detail really does add HAVN to my list of watching career with great interest companies.
Really hoping to see what they can cook up in a more 40 - 50L, $100-150 market. I'd love to see a budget case particularly, but I feel that's unrealistic for this level of quality.
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Admittedly, I am very sad that the different, new ideas were... okay.
That said, the pure attention to detail with cable routing, packaging (minus the one-time-use bags), material quality are awesome. I unfortunately would never buy a Full Tower and would not be interested in this, but I hope HAVN gets to understand that the sheer attention to detail really does add HAVN to my list of watching career with great interest companies.
Really hoping to see what they can cook up in a more 40 - 50L, $100-150 market. I'd love to see a budget case particularly, but I feel that's unrealistic for this level of quality.
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clashwithkeen
I've been wondering for a long time why this angled approach hasn't been the norm. It makes so much more sense than pointing airflow from one set of fans to another set at a 90 degree angle which interrupts the flow coming out of the bottom side of the gpu potentially feeding the hot air back into the gpu fans. My old NZXT phantom has a side panel mounted fan basically doing the same 90 degree thing and I've always wondered if I could get a riser for the gpu so that it blows directly into the front but back then in 2012, accommodating vertical gpu mounting wasn't as common a thing in cases.
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I've been wondering for a long time why this angled approach hasn't been the norm. It makes so much more sense than pointing airflow from one set of fans to another set at a 90 degree angle which interrupts the flow coming out of the bottom side of the gpu potentially feeding the hot air back into the gpu fans. My old NZXT phantom has a side panel mounted fan basically doing the same 90 degree thing and I've always wondered if I could get a riser for the gpu so that it blows directly into the front but back then in 2012, accommodating vertical gpu mounting wasn't as common a thing in cases.
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cmill4836
gamersnexus is there a way to basically categorize cases into as designed groups. IE: 140mm air cooled intakes. 120 mm air cooled intakes. 120 mm fish tank water cooled 140 mm fish tank air cooled etc.
From there you could have a standard fan setup that works best in each design category.
I agree that 1 standard fan setup has its limits and can cause cases to under preform because you are using a fan setup that goes against the case design.
Even though you would have to source more fans, I could see some fan overlap as well between the categories.
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gamersnexus is there a way to basically categorize cases into as designed groups. IE: 140mm air cooled intakes. 120 mm air cooled intakes. 120 mm fish tank water cooled 140 mm fish tank air cooled etc.
From there you could have a standard fan setup that works best in each design category.
I agree that 1 standard fan setup has its limits and can cause cases to under preform because you are using a fan setup that goes against the case design.
Even though you would have to source more fans, I could see some fan overlap as well between the categories.
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ThisIsFro
Great review, awesome job by Gamers Nexus like always. However, I don't agree with using the Antec fans with this case. It's unrealistic to think that anyone would use those fans with this case or any other case besides the Antec case. I think you should pick 3rd party fans that each case uses. I know that this would probably show favoritism towards a manufacturer or steer people towards that brand but its really the only way to do it realistically. Noctua would probably be the best choice but Artic or Be Quiet would also be good choices.
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Great review, awesome job by Gamers Nexus like always. However, I don't agree with using the Antec fans with this case. It's unrealistic to think that anyone would use those fans with this case or any other case besides the Antec case. I think you should pick 3rd party fans that each case uses. I know that this would probably show favoritism towards a manufacturer or steer people towards that brand but its really the only way to do it realistically. Noctua would probably be the best choice but Artic or Be Quiet would also be good choices.
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emilyshabang
My main hangup on this case is that it seems like its appeal is the vertical GPU setup. Yet Steve points out that the angled fan setup isn't particularly effective at cooling the GPU. The horizontal GPU version cools well, but that setup ends up being another O11 Dynamic XL as far as appearance....outside of the rounded glass and rounded slats. Build quality sounds good which is always appreciative. The horizontal GPU version is kind of boring in the grand scheme of things, since there are a ton of O11 variant cases on the market.
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My main hangup on this case is that it seems like its appeal is the vertical GPU setup. Yet Steve points out that the angled fan setup isn't particularly effective at cooling the GPU. The horizontal GPU version cools well, but that setup ends up being another O11 Dynamic XL as far as appearance....outside of the rounded glass and rounded slats. Build quality sounds good which is always appreciative. The horizontal GPU version is kind of boring in the grand scheme of things, since there are a ton of O11 variant cases on the market.
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bzdtemp
Another case where functionality suffers or at as a minimum costs extra in order to live with glass panels. Just as the the RGB complexity and cost some add to their computers, this seems rather silly to me.
A computer should be as silent as possible, with no cost and complexity that add to the functionality and certainly not any that compromise performance. The idea of having glass panels just has me asking Why, they don't make the PC faster, they limit where you can have fans and air vents, they are fragile, cost extra...
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Another case where functionality suffers or at as a minimum costs extra in order to live with glass panels. Just as the the RGB complexity and cost some add to their computers, this seems rather silly to me.
A computer should be as silent as possible, with no cost and complexity that add to the functionality and certainly not any that compromise performance. The idea of having glass panels just has me asking Why, they don't make the PC faster, they limit where you can have fans and air vents, they are fragile, cost extra...
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Jules_Diplopia
I love the angled support for the bottom fans. Not so keen on the curved glass. But a great thing that this company has actually thought everything through and is trying to innovate.
The inset IO at the rear is super, just a shame that the front IO is at the top, to me that space at the bottom is cryying out to be Front IO power button and Brand .
I will be looking to see what they produce next, hopefully with a mesh front to improve airflow and reduce cost of that espensive curved glass.
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I love the angled support for the bottom fans. Not so keen on the curved glass. But a great thing that this company has actually thought everything through and is trying to innovate.
The inset IO at the rear is super, just a shame that the front IO is at the top, to me that space at the bottom is cryying out to be Front IO power button and Brand .
I will be looking to see what they produce next, hopefully with a mesh front to improve airflow and reduce cost of that espensive curved glass.
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8_bit_Andy
I like the move away from the old standardized fan setup for comparing case thermals. If two cases have comparable thermals with a sub-optimal fan setup but one of those cases scales much better than the other with the advent of additional fans I absolutely want to know that when making my purchase decisions. I appreciate you guys always self evaluating and making changes that you believe will bring the best possible information to your audience.
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I like the move away from the old standardized fan setup for comparing case thermals. If two cases have comparable thermals with a sub-optimal fan setup but one of those cases scales much better than the other with the advent of additional fans I absolutely want to know that when making my purchase decisions. I appreciate you guys always self evaluating and making changes that you believe will bring the best possible information to your audience.
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Stormpriest
Where I am not in the market for a new case, my thermaltake core PA is doing just fine, it is always nice to keep my finger on the pulse of the market.
This as a smaller case, the p8 is freaking huge, and comes in white apparently as default from what I can see, is a interesting breath of fresh air. And the fact that there's a model specifically for either or is a slight detraction but at least you know what you're getting.
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Where I am not in the market for a new case, my thermaltake core PA is doing just fine, it is always nice to keep my finger on the pulse of the market.
This as a smaller case, the p8 is freaking huge, and comes in white apparently as default from what I can see, is a interesting breath of fresh air. And the fact that there's a model specifically for either or is a slight detraction but at least you know what you're getting.
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eldibs
Actually, I really did need that bit of vocabulary lesson, because it relates to cooking burgers and helps me explain a concept perfectly. If you're curious, it's that your burger should not be an oval, that's way too thick and unpleasant, basically a meatball. Your burger, when viewed from the side, should be an obround, because that ensures consistency across the burger and optimizes the surface area for proper browning.
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Actually, I really did need that bit of vocabulary lesson, because it relates to cooking burgers and helps me explain a concept perfectly. If you're curious, it's that your burger should not be an oval, that's way too thick and unpleasant, basically a meatball. Your burger, when viewed from the side, should be an obround, because that ensures consistency across the burger and optimizes the surface area for proper browning.
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