Intel CPU Warranty Investigation Undercover: XMP vs. RMA
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Date: 2020-05-06
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Comments and reviews: 10
Scootermagoo
Steve, as someone who worked for at&t in retention, I have a little insight for you with them. The departments inside at&t are ran by different people, they are basically independent from one another. The phone process is designed to piss you off so you hang up, and stop trying to have something changed. I went thru 6 weeks of training to learn how this works. I wont buy a at&t product ever again and that includes directv whom I represented. To see Intel picking the phone up inside 5 minutes consistently is amazing in that alone, and offering a direct refund is even more surprising. I mean a mainstream daily driver like a 9600k should be replaced, but not having enough stock to do a replacement is. kinda silly. I'd allocated 10% to the refund services to keep people happy, but I guess dollars can over ride brains at some points. My only other issue and this is from a native english speaker is having your phone center in mexico possibly guetamala as one of at&t's in in that country like that one sounded like it was in can make communications difficult at times. But better that then having spanish help from india I suppose. Keep up the good work.
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Steve, as someone who worked for at&t in retention, I have a little insight for you with them. The departments inside at&t are ran by different people, they are basically independent from one another. The phone process is designed to piss you off so you hang up, and stop trying to have something changed. I went thru 6 weeks of training to learn how this works. I wont buy a at&t product ever again and that includes directv whom I represented. To see Intel picking the phone up inside 5 minutes consistently is amazing in that alone, and offering a direct refund is even more surprising. I mean a mainstream daily driver like a 9600k should be replaced, but not having enough stock to do a replacement is. kinda silly. I'd allocated 10% to the refund services to keep people happy, but I guess dollars can over ride brains at some points. My only other issue and this is from a native english speaker is having your phone center in mexico possibly guetamala as one of at&t's in in that country like that one sounded like it was in can make communications difficult at times. But better that then having spanish help from india I suppose. Keep up the good work.
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Mark
Two concerns (problems, if you wish): (1) Mr. Burke, you were very clear that if Enermax lied or in any way mislead consumers about their AIO product they were in the wrong. Does one get permission to be dishonest in inverse proportion to an entity's net worth? (Paraphrase, Intel has millions of bucks and I don't. Seriously, that kind of amoral thinking removes any moral high ground for having a complaint. (2) If consumers just lie to get repair/replacement then the real issue and the issue you seem to be rightly concerned about is never addressed. That issue is the misleading sales promotion but total lack of manufacturing support for some option, e. g, XMP. And, in anticipation of a few comments concerning the research method of going undercover, I will say that as a journalist or other investigative party role playing to evaluate is not lying in the same way it is to procure financial benefit. So, I am not condemning the investigation only the passive endorsement of consumers being dishonest to get what they want. Two wrongs do not make this problem solved. Instead they actually bury the real concern.
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Two concerns (problems, if you wish): (1) Mr. Burke, you were very clear that if Enermax lied or in any way mislead consumers about their AIO product they were in the wrong. Does one get permission to be dishonest in inverse proportion to an entity's net worth? (Paraphrase, Intel has millions of bucks and I don't. Seriously, that kind of amoral thinking removes any moral high ground for having a complaint. (2) If consumers just lie to get repair/replacement then the real issue and the issue you seem to be rightly concerned about is never addressed. That issue is the misleading sales promotion but total lack of manufacturing support for some option, e. g, XMP. And, in anticipation of a few comments concerning the research method of going undercover, I will say that as a journalist or other investigative party role playing to evaluate is not lying in the same way it is to procure financial benefit. So, I am not condemning the investigation only the passive endorsement of consumers being dishonest to get what they want. Two wrongs do not make this problem solved. Instead they actually bury the real concern.
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Dan
Gamers Nexus: According to a reply in a post I made on an Intel Overclocking Megathread in reddit, XMP profiles do not include VCCSA or VCCIO settings (parameters). If this is the case, I can potentially see why Intel could claim a valid warranty dispute. For example, my MSI Meg Ace board throws SA and IO up to 1. 48v with XMP alone (4400mhz C18. I feel that an argument could be made that Intel needs to specify a maximum cap to vendors on all voltages tied to higher frequency XMP profiles (at which point they could commit to stand by replacement warranty requests. I realize this is far from what the standard user might experience, and that anyone pushing RAM speeds this high, most likely has a grasp on appropriate voltages - It still leads to a point validating Intel's decision to void when the XMP profiles don't limit motherboard vendors to elevate voltages to potentially unsafe levels. Curious about your thoughts?
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Gamers Nexus: According to a reply in a post I made on an Intel Overclocking Megathread in reddit, XMP profiles do not include VCCSA or VCCIO settings (parameters). If this is the case, I can potentially see why Intel could claim a valid warranty dispute. For example, my MSI Meg Ace board throws SA and IO up to 1. 48v with XMP alone (4400mhz C18. I feel that an argument could be made that Intel needs to specify a maximum cap to vendors on all voltages tied to higher frequency XMP profiles (at which point they could commit to stand by replacement warranty requests. I realize this is far from what the standard user might experience, and that anyone pushing RAM speeds this high, most likely has a grasp on appropriate voltages - It still leads to a point validating Intel's decision to void when the XMP profiles don't limit motherboard vendors to elevate voltages to potentially unsafe levels. Curious about your thoughts?
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Noah
I think worst yet is that the consumer gives up and decides not to buy an intel CPU in their next build. I actually did this with an EVGA GPU that failed within a couple years. Technically it was not covered because I did not register it after purchasing it. I never bothered to call because I knew the policy. It's my understanding that they do replace it under warranty even if it was not registered if you call, so again an instance of an unenforced policy that's a little silly. I bought an ASUS GPU to replace it because of the bad warranty experience. From my perspective, I paid a lot of money for the EVGA GPU and it lasted me less than 2 years when it had a 3 year warranty. A CPU is kind of tied to the motherboard, so you' wouldn't just change CPU brands necessarily. It could still affect your purchasing decision for the next build especially if the two companies were evenly matched.
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I think worst yet is that the consumer gives up and decides not to buy an intel CPU in their next build. I actually did this with an EVGA GPU that failed within a couple years. Technically it was not covered because I did not register it after purchasing it. I never bothered to call because I knew the policy. It's my understanding that they do replace it under warranty even if it was not registered if you call, so again an instance of an unenforced policy that's a little silly. I bought an ASUS GPU to replace it because of the bad warranty experience. From my perspective, I paid a lot of money for the EVGA GPU and it lasted me less than 2 years when it had a 3 year warranty. A CPU is kind of tied to the motherboard, so you' wouldn't just change CPU brands necessarily. It could still affect your purchasing decision for the next build especially if the two companies were evenly matched.
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Kepe
Wait a minute, XMP is an Intel technology, advertised by Intel as something everyone can easily enable to get more out of their system, and then it voids the warranty. How can the use of an advertised feature built into a product void the warranty? I'm quite sure that's illegal. It's like having a big red button in the middle of the dash of a car, and the manufacturer says pushing that button will give you 5% more power but it'll also void the warranty of your car. That wouldn't fly in any court. If you advertise a feature in your product, then using that feature is normal use of the product and not some out of spec use case not covered by warranty. Our car comes with a 5 year warranty but if you push the gas pedal over 70%, it'll void the warranty because you're driving out of spec and trying to accelerate too hard for any normal use case. Nice.
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Wait a minute, XMP is an Intel technology, advertised by Intel as something everyone can easily enable to get more out of their system, and then it voids the warranty. How can the use of an advertised feature built into a product void the warranty? I'm quite sure that's illegal. It's like having a big red button in the middle of the dash of a car, and the manufacturer says pushing that button will give you 5% more power but it'll also void the warranty of your car. That wouldn't fly in any court. If you advertise a feature in your product, then using that feature is normal use of the product and not some out of spec use case not covered by warranty. Our car comes with a 5 year warranty but if you push the gas pedal over 70%, it'll void the warranty because you're driving out of spec and trying to accelerate too hard for any normal use case. Nice.
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DMan
Gamers Nexus Thanks for the video! Back in November/December 2012, after building my first PC, I inquired of Intel about using the more expensive, faster RAM I had purchased with my i7-3970X I had just spent 1000 on. I had read the processor supported 1600, and I was honestly curious why XMP was marketed and offered by companies at all if it could be harmful. Because of Intel's response, and because of my trust for them over the RAM manufacturers concerning the safety for the processor, I returned the more expensive RAM kit and have been using 1600 in my PC ever since. I still use that same build with faster storage (850 EVO boot drive) and graphics card (GTX 1080 OCed) for everything, including VR. Could I have used the much faster kit and been fine all this time? I honestly don't know, but it wasn't a guarantee according to Intel, so here I am.
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Gamers Nexus Thanks for the video! Back in November/December 2012, after building my first PC, I inquired of Intel about using the more expensive, faster RAM I had purchased with my i7-3970X I had just spent 1000 on. I had read the processor supported 1600, and I was honestly curious why XMP was marketed and offered by companies at all if it could be harmful. Because of Intel's response, and because of my trust for them over the RAM manufacturers concerning the safety for the processor, I returned the more expensive RAM kit and have been using 1600 in my PC ever since. I still use that same build with faster storage (850 EVO boot drive) and graphics card (GTX 1080 OCed) for everything, including VR. Could I have used the much faster kit and been fine all this time? I honestly don't know, but it wasn't a guarantee according to Intel, so here I am.
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lap
'One party consent' of phone recording does not allow you to publish the phone call with the intent of that person being laughed at and ridiculed by your viewers, something you knew would happen. The video is also being commercial sponsored which means the phone call is making you money, again something you are not allowed to do unless you got the consent off the Intel employee to use their voice in a social media video that your making money from. I think you will find any lawyer will agree with 'one party consent' laws if both you and Intel are in 'one party consent' states BUT same lawyers will say you could be in trouble if you publicly publish the phone call with the intent to make money from it, which you are, both from the video sponsor and youtube themselves. You just need to hope the Intel employee you recorded does not make a complaint.
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'One party consent' of phone recording does not allow you to publish the phone call with the intent of that person being laughed at and ridiculed by your viewers, something you knew would happen. The video is also being commercial sponsored which means the phone call is making you money, again something you are not allowed to do unless you got the consent off the Intel employee to use their voice in a social media video that your making money from. I think you will find any lawyer will agree with 'one party consent' laws if both you and Intel are in 'one party consent' states BUT same lawyers will say you could be in trouble if you publicly publish the phone call with the intent to make money from it, which you are, both from the video sponsor and youtube themselves. You just need to hope the Intel employee you recorded does not make a complaint.
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The
If Intel uses 3200MHz XMP OC d ram to advertise the CPU s speed in benchmarks ETC for advertises. But they do not offer warranty for anyone ELSE who does it, (even tho intel even encourage you to do it) isnt that false advertising or goes against some kind of law? This is just ludicrous. I know AMD has its issues aswell (a fair share, but im not gonna buy anything from Intel until they get their shit together. With Ryzen being out, its literally no reason to buy anything from intel either. Feel like i choose right going for the 3900X over 9900K. Anyways, im glad i live in a country where this is a non issue, we have GREAT customer protection laws here, 5 year warranties on CPU s ETC no matter the issue. (or well, if you damage the CPU physically or OC it to shit and short it, burt it up or some, then sure, its not under warranty lol.
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If Intel uses 3200MHz XMP OC d ram to advertise the CPU s speed in benchmarks ETC for advertises. But they do not offer warranty for anyone ELSE who does it, (even tho intel even encourage you to do it) isnt that false advertising or goes against some kind of law? This is just ludicrous. I know AMD has its issues aswell (a fair share, but im not gonna buy anything from Intel until they get their shit together. With Ryzen being out, its literally no reason to buy anything from intel either. Feel like i choose right going for the 3900X over 9900K. Anyways, im glad i live in a country where this is a non issue, we have GREAT customer protection laws here, 5 year warranties on CPU s ETC no matter the issue. (or well, if you damage the CPU physically or OC it to shit and short it, burt it up or some, then sure, its not under warranty lol.
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Jacques
if xmp is an option offered by intel itself through agreements with mobo manufacturers as a selling point, it should without objection be supported by intel or remove xmp from the options that can be enabled, there are non K versions of intel cpu's, if intel wants to control the rma process by faulting a user for using their option to use a technology created by the manufacturer. its bs to offer it and not support it -- I do realise intel does not officially support xmp, but it should if it is offering it. If it is undetectable in hardware that it was overclocked, they have to rely on honor system and it shouldn't. . just my thoughts. It seems intel does take care, but if you have to lie to get it swapped out, it doesn't look good.
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if xmp is an option offered by intel itself through agreements with mobo manufacturers as a selling point, it should without objection be supported by intel or remove xmp from the options that can be enabled, there are non K versions of intel cpu's, if intel wants to control the rma process by faulting a user for using their option to use a technology created by the manufacturer. its bs to offer it and not support it -- I do realise intel does not officially support xmp, but it should if it is offering it. If it is undetectable in hardware that it was overclocked, they have to rely on honor system and it shouldn't. . just my thoughts. It seems intel does take care, but if you have to lie to get it swapped out, it doesn't look good.
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Helio
It sounds like it works in Canada then. Well, it looks like it doesn't work in Brazil. Sometimes. Anyway, I have a Ryzen 5 3600 with 3200 RAM (which also happens to be the maximum supported, which is wrong since they marketed zen 2 with 3600 RAM, so it's not really my problem. I happen to have a decent processor. I guess that only a tool would get an RMA denied by Intel in Canada, but it apparently takes a double tool to even buy a crappy processor who calls a janky 3000 stick overclocking. RMA not working in Brazil doesn't scare me in the slightest. Intel saying the recommended memory for a 9900KS is 2666 is the real laughing stock here. What kind of crappy memory controller Intel processors have to recommend that?
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It sounds like it works in Canada then. Well, it looks like it doesn't work in Brazil. Sometimes. Anyway, I have a Ryzen 5 3600 with 3200 RAM (which also happens to be the maximum supported, which is wrong since they marketed zen 2 with 3600 RAM, so it's not really my problem. I happen to have a decent processor. I guess that only a tool would get an RMA denied by Intel in Canada, but it apparently takes a double tool to even buy a crappy processor who calls a janky 3000 stick overclocking. RMA not working in Brazil doesn't scare me in the slightest. Intel saying the recommended memory for a 9900KS is 2666 is the real laughing stock here. What kind of crappy memory controller Intel processors have to recommend that?
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