The Post-Workout Anabolic Window (MYTH BUSTED with Science)
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Date: 2019-11-06
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Comments and reviews: 9
C0nstellati0ns
Once amino acids are in the intestine they have to combine with different protein carriers to be absorbed. As we know, leucine is the most potent signaling factor for activating mTor. The leucine carrier peaks within 90 minutes post workout. This would imply that ingesting leucine within 90 minutes after a workout would yield a greater uptake of leucine, which in turn leads to greater stimulation of mTor, which might lead to greater muscle hypertrophy. Also, immediate carbohydrate intake post workout might be even more important for recovery than immediate intake of protein as glycogenosis is primed for 2 hrs following a workout. I don't understand your point on the insulin spike, it's futile because you can eat protein? Even though you can get similar insulin spike from protein alone, you don't want your protein to be used to replenish glycogen, as this would take away the use of protein from for instance muscular repair. Insulin also stimulates a greater uptake of amino acids. And why would you stay in a catabolic state for longer than necessary? Muscle building is trying to maximize your anabolic state and minimize catabolic effects. Although catabolic effects aren't 100% negative, I don't see why you would stay catabolic for 3 hrs after a workout when you don't need to. If you stay catabolic for 3 hrs post workout, every workout, in a year, the catabolic effects would probably have some sort of overall impact on your muscle building efforts. Another point regarding post workout protein vs carbohydrates is that protein sources have greater amount of antioxidants which may interfere with reactive oxygen species (free radicals. Although free radicals have a bad rep, they acts as signaling factors in muscle, increase insulin sensitivity, increase mitochondrial biogenesis, and acts as anabolic signaling factors. (The research on this is in it infancy, I have to say, but some studies have shown this)The take home is: if you take in carbs for glycogenesis and insulin spike, amino acids without antioxidants, no later than 90 mintues after a workout, that would probably be the best case scenario for recovery.
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Once amino acids are in the intestine they have to combine with different protein carriers to be absorbed. As we know, leucine is the most potent signaling factor for activating mTor. The leucine carrier peaks within 90 minutes post workout. This would imply that ingesting leucine within 90 minutes after a workout would yield a greater uptake of leucine, which in turn leads to greater stimulation of mTor, which might lead to greater muscle hypertrophy. Also, immediate carbohydrate intake post workout might be even more important for recovery than immediate intake of protein as glycogenosis is primed for 2 hrs following a workout. I don't understand your point on the insulin spike, it's futile because you can eat protein? Even though you can get similar insulin spike from protein alone, you don't want your protein to be used to replenish glycogen, as this would take away the use of protein from for instance muscular repair. Insulin also stimulates a greater uptake of amino acids. And why would you stay in a catabolic state for longer than necessary? Muscle building is trying to maximize your anabolic state and minimize catabolic effects. Although catabolic effects aren't 100% negative, I don't see why you would stay catabolic for 3 hrs after a workout when you don't need to. If you stay catabolic for 3 hrs post workout, every workout, in a year, the catabolic effects would probably have some sort of overall impact on your muscle building efforts. Another point regarding post workout protein vs carbohydrates is that protein sources have greater amount of antioxidants which may interfere with reactive oxygen species (free radicals. Although free radicals have a bad rep, they acts as signaling factors in muscle, increase insulin sensitivity, increase mitochondrial biogenesis, and acts as anabolic signaling factors. (The research on this is in it infancy, I have to say, but some studies have shown this)The take home is: if you take in carbs for glycogenesis and insulin spike, amino acids without antioxidants, no later than 90 mintues after a workout, that would probably be the best case scenario for recovery.
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Seth Allen
I was actually very interested in hearing about the carbohydrate consumption. You actually helped me add more evidence to a theory that I have had. Most people always say that you need to replenish your glycogen stores after a work out, and I have never put in effort towards that because I always felt that we never even touch close to low glycogen stores. I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe that we store about 1500 to 2000 calories worth of stored glycogen, maybe more. There is no way anyone is even working out intense enough to even reach past 50% to 75% of those calories (1000 calories. Only professional athletes would even get close to that, and even then, there is some research that suggests the more experienced people who exercise actually adapt to use less energy during their workouts. I would like to see you fo a video on that. That would be a great topic to discuss further. Thanks
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I was actually very interested in hearing about the carbohydrate consumption. You actually helped me add more evidence to a theory that I have had. Most people always say that you need to replenish your glycogen stores after a work out, and I have never put in effort towards that because I always felt that we never even touch close to low glycogen stores. I don't remember exact numbers, but I believe that we store about 1500 to 2000 calories worth of stored glycogen, maybe more. There is no way anyone is even working out intense enough to even reach past 50% to 75% of those calories (1000 calories. Only professional athletes would even get close to that, and even then, there is some research that suggests the more experienced people who exercise actually adapt to use less energy during their workouts. I would like to see you fo a video on that. That would be a great topic to discuss further. Thanks
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DesertMarine
Don't think carbohydrates after workouts have an impact on insulin? Given that a person's insulin sensitivity increases after training it's an ideal time to take in carbohydrates. Furthermore if the anabolic window is up to 48 hours then if I eat 30 minutes after I train I'm eating in that 48-hour anabolic window from yesterday's workout. And given the necessity to eat enough calories to gain Mass there's only so much time in the day which to consume calories, and for most people who have normal jobs it's important to get those calories in. we wouldn't have the luxury of dilly-dallying and eating 3 hours after training, many of us wouldn't get enough calories in if we skipped a post workout meal. I think the effort on the internet to bust this myth is a complete waste of time to be honest with you. The waste of time to argue against something that worst case scenario it's a break even.
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Don't think carbohydrates after workouts have an impact on insulin? Given that a person's insulin sensitivity increases after training it's an ideal time to take in carbohydrates. Furthermore if the anabolic window is up to 48 hours then if I eat 30 minutes after I train I'm eating in that 48-hour anabolic window from yesterday's workout. And given the necessity to eat enough calories to gain Mass there's only so much time in the day which to consume calories, and for most people who have normal jobs it's important to get those calories in. we wouldn't have the luxury of dilly-dallying and eating 3 hours after training, many of us wouldn't get enough calories in if we skipped a post workout meal. I think the effort on the internet to bust this myth is a complete waste of time to be honest with you. The waste of time to argue against something that worst case scenario it's a break even.
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Grant Baker
To feed as soon as possible after workout. In this respect, not eating does not offer any benefits. I beg to differ. I'm on a 18/6 fast, my eating window is between 15: 00 and 21: 00, I workout around 13: 00. After the workout there are many things going on in the body, especially when intermittent fasting. HGH increase massively for example, cellular activity also increases, so I like to ride the wave, get all the benefits, and wait at least an hour before I eat anything. Also, when I eat and kick start my metabolism, more blood accumulates around the organs and abdomen, meaning less blood in the muscles, and you want good blood flow in your muscles after a workout for a number of reasons. I could go into much more detail but my comment would be very long. Based on my research I think it's optimal for me personally to refrain from eating right after a workout.
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To feed as soon as possible after workout. In this respect, not eating does not offer any benefits. I beg to differ. I'm on a 18/6 fast, my eating window is between 15: 00 and 21: 00, I workout around 13: 00. After the workout there are many things going on in the body, especially when intermittent fasting. HGH increase massively for example, cellular activity also increases, so I like to ride the wave, get all the benefits, and wait at least an hour before I eat anything. Also, when I eat and kick start my metabolism, more blood accumulates around the organs and abdomen, meaning less blood in the muscles, and you want good blood flow in your muscles after a workout for a number of reasons. I could go into much more detail but my comment would be very long. Based on my research I think it's optimal for me personally to refrain from eating right after a workout.
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Mahesh K
Whey may be not reaching your muscles in 20 minutes but much faster than egg or meat. After workout our body is completely depleted, glycogen, glutamin, dehydration etc. whatever it is. Some bros says it's fat burning zone. but it's not just ur fat only loose any all muscle survive. we loose both. So as soon as if we eat Atleast we can preserve se muscle. If we eat carbs it will not use as aminos to repair muscle, so obviously protein asap. And it doesn't matter if u take immediate or later. the overall 48 hours of protein intake mattersThen this whey also included in that 48 hours. Next. It's not the immediate whey that build or repair muscle. it's last 48 hours of protein intake that already absorbed by body doing that job. Then think it is ur yesterday's Post Shaked worked and today's shake will work tomorrow. So are we loosing anything?
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Whey may be not reaching your muscles in 20 minutes but much faster than egg or meat. After workout our body is completely depleted, glycogen, glutamin, dehydration etc. whatever it is. Some bros says it's fat burning zone. but it's not just ur fat only loose any all muscle survive. we loose both. So as soon as if we eat Atleast we can preserve se muscle. If we eat carbs it will not use as aminos to repair muscle, so obviously protein asap. And it doesn't matter if u take immediate or later. the overall 48 hours of protein intake mattersThen this whey also included in that 48 hours. Next. It's not the immediate whey that build or repair muscle. it's last 48 hours of protein intake that already absorbed by body doing that job. Then think it is ur yesterday's Post Shaked worked and today's shake will work tomorrow. So are we loosing anything?
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Robert Jackman
Duh this theory is flawed, how would your body know when you stop a workout like some people workout for an hour, some for two. So if u need to get protein right after you tear the muscle, then wouldn't that clock start right after that first set? Right when you tear the muscle, wouldn't u need to start the hour clock then? Or does your body say Oh it's cool bro, finish your workout and tear all your scheduled muscle groups for 2day then we'll start the 1 hour clock after your last set. Lol if you tear your chest first of the workout then at the end (1 hour later) you did your biceps, then start the hour clock. well then you have your biceps protein within one hour but your chest waited 2 hours. How does that make sense? The clock would have to b timed from the very first rep.
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Duh this theory is flawed, how would your body know when you stop a workout like some people workout for an hour, some for two. So if u need to get protein right after you tear the muscle, then wouldn't that clock start right after that first set? Right when you tear the muscle, wouldn't u need to start the hour clock then? Or does your body say Oh it's cool bro, finish your workout and tear all your scheduled muscle groups for 2day then we'll start the 1 hour clock after your last set. Lol if you tear your chest first of the workout then at the end (1 hour later) you did your biceps, then start the hour clock. well then you have your biceps protein within one hour but your chest waited 2 hours. How does that make sense? The clock would have to b timed from the very first rep.
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Neofolis
The part of this that doesn't make any sense at all to me is that there are numerous studies that show how long protein takes to digest. Even whey, which is commonly regarded as the fastest digesting protein source can only be digested at a rate of 8-10g per hour. If that is the case then someone who has 50g of protein 3 hours before they work out will still have 20-26g of undigested protein in their system when they start their workout and still maybe 10-18g after their workout, assuming a one hour workout. This would suggest that there is still going to be protein available being digested for the next one to two hours after their workout and adding more protein is not going to enable them to digest it any faster, it would only allow the muscles to make better use of it.
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The part of this that doesn't make any sense at all to me is that there are numerous studies that show how long protein takes to digest. Even whey, which is commonly regarded as the fastest digesting protein source can only be digested at a rate of 8-10g per hour. If that is the case then someone who has 50g of protein 3 hours before they work out will still have 20-26g of undigested protein in their system when they start their workout and still maybe 10-18g after their workout, assuming a one hour workout. This would suggest that there is still going to be protein available being digested for the next one to two hours after their workout and adding more protein is not going to enable them to digest it any faster, it would only allow the muscles to make better use of it.
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MrGonq
36% reduction in glycogen stores seems pretty significant to me? if you can replenish that through consuming dextrose immediately post-workout, why wouldn't you? Also doesn't this feed into the studies on protein absorption in higher quantities? If glycogen storage is optimal, then the whey protein you take post-workout will be absorbed better and quicker, and the protein wont suffer from oxidative degradation due to not being needed for new protein synthesis? I've found the studies and papers that i've read inconclusive as have you, and more scientific research is needed to create a proper conclusion, but wouldn't it be better to be on the safe side? Especially seeing as there doesn't seem to be a downside to doing so?
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36% reduction in glycogen stores seems pretty significant to me? if you can replenish that through consuming dextrose immediately post-workout, why wouldn't you? Also doesn't this feed into the studies on protein absorption in higher quantities? If glycogen storage is optimal, then the whey protein you take post-workout will be absorbed better and quicker, and the protein wont suffer from oxidative degradation due to not being needed for new protein synthesis? I've found the studies and papers that i've read inconclusive as have you, and more scientific research is needed to create a proper conclusion, but wouldn't it be better to be on the safe side? Especially seeing as there doesn't seem to be a downside to doing so?
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M
There are two other reasons I see post workout carbs recommended I hope you could address: My understanding is carbs will be the most strongly partitioned to the muscles post workout. Because they are more insulin sensitive and also the exercise induced GLUT4 mechanism I recently learned about that lets them suck up even more carbs without even needing insulin. On top of that I also heard that the carbs shuttle in proteins as well as taking the carbs with protein results in 30% higher glycogen. So even though you can replenish glycogen later it still seems like the post workout window is a fantastic period to take in carbs. Maybe you could do a video just on post-carb intake?
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There are two other reasons I see post workout carbs recommended I hope you could address: My understanding is carbs will be the most strongly partitioned to the muscles post workout. Because they are more insulin sensitive and also the exercise induced GLUT4 mechanism I recently learned about that lets them suck up even more carbs without even needing insulin. On top of that I also heard that the carbs shuttle in proteins as well as taking the carbs with protein results in 30% higher glycogen. So even though you can replenish glycogen later it still seems like the post workout window is a fantastic period to take in carbs. Maybe you could do a video just on post-carb intake?
reply
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