I rode ALL kinds of Seattle transit in 4 hours (even the monorail)
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the DSTT actually had to close for a while because the rails initially in it didn t fit for the link trains: (
Convention center station is not going to reopen with connections to the DSTT. i believe it will never reopen but could be wrong
You missed a few modes! Trolley bus, fast ferry, and sound transit regional express bus, but adding those would probably make this a much longer task
Date: 2021-05-27
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Comments and reviews: 9
James
Nice video! Thanks for your content! Anyone whose lived in North America and taken public transport has felt that stomach drop moment knowing you'll have to wait for hours if you don't book it! While I definitely support what I assume is your approach of measuring success in increments relative to progress; it is important for comparison purposes to take a top-down comparative view. Seattle-Tacoma had pre-pandemic ridership levels of less than 10%. When compared to large metropolitan areas internationally it's the other 90% of commuters in Seattle-Tacoma driving that really sticks out to me. It was interesting to hear the heavy-rail option was floated but not ultimately adopted; it explains the disjointed multi-modal and ultimately more expensive system in terms of both commuter time and overall resources to build and maintain. It is perhaps fair to note that Seattle-Tacoma is more on par with other North American cities with slowly improving public transport ridership like San Francisco, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto than say Dallas, Atlanta, or Detroit. But Barcelona, Singapore, or Guadalajara it is not. Furthermore, over the same period of time China his planned and built the world's largest high-speed rail network starting from zero; what I see here is a characteristic lack of political will to prioritize public transportation and an unwillingness on the part of Urban Planners to call poor ridership poor ridership (presumably due to misplaced guilt about decisions which aren't theirs. Comparisons are mainly useful for the purposes of improving future performance; I'm not sure what North America constantly comparing itself to itself could hope to achieve. Economically, light-rail systems often sit in an unfortunate purgatory; offering most of the expenses required for dedicated separate exclusive rights of way, without the infrastructure, signaling systems, or rolling stock of heavy rail required to enable significant and cost-effective ridership movements. I have read papers that argue that, tabula rasa, building a heavy-rail system with automated drivers and all-day 5 minute service (with fewer cars on at lower times) takes the insecurity out of planning for riders and encourages uptake. Especially if partnered with T. O. D. to build local markets for stations. If memory serves, the papers also posit that if necessary it is better to start building at a smaller scale (to reduce upfront costs) than it is widely but sub-optimally due to path dependency issues like unavoidable multi-modal systems, underbuilt, overbuilt, and inflexible service levels which are near impossible to fix, prevent ridership uptake, and cut into the ability of the service to start making a profit sooner to support its own expansion (see MTR in Hong Kong for an excellent example. While I share your enthusiasm for buses in terms of their cost effectiveness for North American cities; it's important to note that the general public there reportedly have a persistent negative perception of buses which evidently hinders ridership uptake. I'm not confident what the best way is to do something about that; I tend to think the time and effort is probably better spent on building something people readily understand and will willingly use in numbers that support virtuous economic cycles and will ultimately favour well in international comparisons.
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Nice video! Thanks for your content! Anyone whose lived in North America and taken public transport has felt that stomach drop moment knowing you'll have to wait for hours if you don't book it! While I definitely support what I assume is your approach of measuring success in increments relative to progress; it is important for comparison purposes to take a top-down comparative view. Seattle-Tacoma had pre-pandemic ridership levels of less than 10%. When compared to large metropolitan areas internationally it's the other 90% of commuters in Seattle-Tacoma driving that really sticks out to me. It was interesting to hear the heavy-rail option was floated but not ultimately adopted; it explains the disjointed multi-modal and ultimately more expensive system in terms of both commuter time and overall resources to build and maintain. It is perhaps fair to note that Seattle-Tacoma is more on par with other North American cities with slowly improving public transport ridership like San Francisco, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto than say Dallas, Atlanta, or Detroit. But Barcelona, Singapore, or Guadalajara it is not. Furthermore, over the same period of time China his planned and built the world's largest high-speed rail network starting from zero; what I see here is a characteristic lack of political will to prioritize public transportation and an unwillingness on the part of Urban Planners to call poor ridership poor ridership (presumably due to misplaced guilt about decisions which aren't theirs. Comparisons are mainly useful for the purposes of improving future performance; I'm not sure what North America constantly comparing itself to itself could hope to achieve. Economically, light-rail systems often sit in an unfortunate purgatory; offering most of the expenses required for dedicated separate exclusive rights of way, without the infrastructure, signaling systems, or rolling stock of heavy rail required to enable significant and cost-effective ridership movements. I have read papers that argue that, tabula rasa, building a heavy-rail system with automated drivers and all-day 5 minute service (with fewer cars on at lower times) takes the insecurity out of planning for riders and encourages uptake. Especially if partnered with T. O. D. to build local markets for stations. If memory serves, the papers also posit that if necessary it is better to start building at a smaller scale (to reduce upfront costs) than it is widely but sub-optimally due to path dependency issues like unavoidable multi-modal systems, underbuilt, overbuilt, and inflexible service levels which are near impossible to fix, prevent ridership uptake, and cut into the ability of the service to start making a profit sooner to support its own expansion (see MTR in Hong Kong for an excellent example. While I share your enthusiasm for buses in terms of their cost effectiveness for North American cities; it's important to note that the general public there reportedly have a persistent negative perception of buses which evidently hinders ridership uptake. I'm not confident what the best way is to do something about that; I tend to think the time and effort is probably better spent on building something people readily understand and will willingly use in numbers that support virtuous economic cycles and will ultimately favour well in international comparisons.
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Stephen
I am just deeply puzzled by this notion of trains that run for a couple of hours twice a day as a transit system. Or that a 20 minute walk is a connection. The worst case waiting time during the day needs to be no more than 20 minutes, there has to be some way of getting home at 3AM, and connections need to, well, connect, otherwise how can people rely on the system to live their lives?
The entire pattern of America seems to be we will design everything to force people to drive cars! Now, why do people insist on driving cars?
Oh, one other thing. In Shanghai the transit cards work for taxis, too. In the Netherlands, a single card works throughout the country. Once again the evidence is that, at best, the US isn't trying. It seems determined to join the third world, just as everyone else is bootstrapping furiously.
Even the best the US has to offer is simply sad.
reply
I am just deeply puzzled by this notion of trains that run for a couple of hours twice a day as a transit system. Or that a 20 minute walk is a connection. The worst case waiting time during the day needs to be no more than 20 minutes, there has to be some way of getting home at 3AM, and connections need to, well, connect, otherwise how can people rely on the system to live their lives?
The entire pattern of America seems to be we will design everything to force people to drive cars! Now, why do people insist on driving cars?
Oh, one other thing. In Shanghai the transit cards work for taxis, too. In the Netherlands, a single card works throughout the country. Once again the evidence is that, at best, the US isn't trying. It seems determined to join the third world, just as everyone else is bootstrapping furiously.
Even the best the US has to offer is simply sad.
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Oran
Looks like fun and something I'd want to attempt someday but maybe include trolleybuses.
One unique feature of the ORCA card and Puget Sound's regional fare system is the acceptance of transfer credit across all operators (except state ferries. You get two hours of unlimited rides of equal or lesser value from the moment you pay. If the service you are boarding has a higher fare than your first boarding, you only pay the difference and your two hour transfer clock resets.
I got massive sticker shock when I visited the Bay Area to ride a bunch of transit and realized that transfers between BART and Muni and other operators are not free even with a Clipper card.
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Looks like fun and something I'd want to attempt someday but maybe include trolleybuses.
One unique feature of the ORCA card and Puget Sound's regional fare system is the acceptance of transfer credit across all operators (except state ferries. You get two hours of unlimited rides of equal or lesser value from the moment you pay. If the service you are boarding has a higher fare than your first boarding, you only pay the difference and your two hour transfer clock resets.
I got massive sticker shock when I visited the Bay Area to ride a bunch of transit and realized that transfers between BART and Muni and other operators are not free even with a Clipper card.
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This
interesting. i didn't know there could be so many different kinds of public transport in a city. in vienna we have trams, busses and undergrounds. new systems wouldn't make sense, instead the existing infrastructure gets expanded. light rail and streetcar would be the same thing in vienna and i actually don't know the difference between the 2. to me they both seem like 2 seperate networks of trams.
by the way, all public transport runs every 3 minutes during rush hour. longest possible wait is 15 minutes on in the middle of the night on weekends
and i guess there is a normal railway too, but that just happens to run trhough the city
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interesting. i didn't know there could be so many different kinds of public transport in a city. in vienna we have trams, busses and undergrounds. new systems wouldn't make sense, instead the existing infrastructure gets expanded. light rail and streetcar would be the same thing in vienna and i actually don't know the difference between the 2. to me they both seem like 2 seperate networks of trams.
by the way, all public transport runs every 3 minutes during rush hour. longest possible wait is 15 minutes on in the middle of the night on weekends
and i guess there is a normal railway too, but that just happens to run trhough the city
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bballboy2002
I feel like you really skimmed over future expansions in this. They're doing a lot more than just a few light rail stops each direction, there's 3 whole new lines going in over the next 20 years and much more expansion to the existing one than you mentioned. They are also building a real BRT system along 405 (i think it opens in 2024) and expanding the Sounder.
Speedrunning tip: you should've started with the ferry as it takes the longest round-trip. Start the timer getting on the ferry at Bainbridge and go from there. Going to Tukwila round-trip takes a while too but you get 3 modes done so it's worth it.
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I feel like you really skimmed over future expansions in this. They're doing a lot more than just a few light rail stops each direction, there's 3 whole new lines going in over the next 20 years and much more expansion to the existing one than you mentioned. They are also building a real BRT system along 405 (i think it opens in 2024) and expanding the Sounder.
Speedrunning tip: you should've started with the ferry as it takes the longest round-trip. Start the timer getting on the ferry at Bainbridge and go from there. Going to Tukwila round-trip takes a while too but you get 3 modes done so it's worth it.
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Greywolf
I'm living in Berlin (the germany one. We have Bus (express Buss as well, if you want to make that destinction, Metro, light Rail, Tram and Ferries. Technical regional rail too, since a lot of regional lines have several stops in the city and you can use them with a normal inner city ticket. You probably could get all in half an hour or less, the biggest hurdle would be, that Tram lines are mostly in the eastern half of the city, while the ferries are in the western. But if you time the regional rail well (they have much longer tacts obviously, should be possible.
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I'm living in Berlin (the germany one. We have Bus (express Buss as well, if you want to make that destinction, Metro, light Rail, Tram and Ferries. Technical regional rail too, since a lot of regional lines have several stops in the city and you can use them with a normal inner city ticket. You probably could get all in half an hour or less, the biggest hurdle would be, that Tram lines are mostly in the eastern half of the city, while the ferries are in the western. But if you time the regional rail well (they have much longer tacts obviously, should be possible.
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Tom
As a Seattle resident, I would argue that there is a bigger distinction between our WSF ferries (like the one you took - slow, targeted more towards cars than foot commuters) and our express/commuter ferry network (connecting various cities across the sound, even West Seattle) to the same downtown terminal you rode out of. They are so much smaller, newer, and FASTER it feels like a totally different experience! Much more modern, and really feels like a great way to move commuters into and out of the city.
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As a Seattle resident, I would argue that there is a bigger distinction between our WSF ferries (like the one you took - slow, targeted more towards cars than foot commuters) and our express/commuter ferry network (connecting various cities across the sound, even West Seattle) to the same downtown terminal you rode out of. They are so much smaller, newer, and FASTER it feels like a totally different experience! Much more modern, and really feels like a great way to move commuters into and out of the city.
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book81able
Gonna go do this for Boston: Metro, Light Rail/Streetcar/Whatever the Green Line is, Rapid Bus, Commuter Rail, Bus, Ferry, Blue Bike.
I live 5 minutes via public bike away from a commuter rail/metro station, so taking the train to South Station, taking the Silver Line to the airport and the ferry back, taking a downtown green line trip, and returning to home via the commuter rail and a short bus ride would be a full round trip on every mode.
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Gonna go do this for Boston: Metro, Light Rail/Streetcar/Whatever the Green Line is, Rapid Bus, Commuter Rail, Bus, Ferry, Blue Bike.
I live 5 minutes via public bike away from a commuter rail/metro station, so taking the train to South Station, taking the Silver Line to the airport and the ferry back, taking a downtown green line trip, and returning to home via the commuter rail and a short bus ride would be a full round trip on every mode.
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FutureBoyWonder
to hear that phone based fare cards are so cutting edge makes me feel good about the Cleveland fare system. They had antiqued cash/paper fares forever but skipped the cards and went straight to the phone app even though quite a bit of money was spent to put cards into the transit system and it never materialized. if only we had more than 3 rail lines and didnt decimate what was once a great BRT line.
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to hear that phone based fare cards are so cutting edge makes me feel good about the Cleveland fare system. They had antiqued cash/paper fares forever but skipped the cards and went straight to the phone app even though quite a bit of money was spent to put cards into the transit system and it never materialized. if only we had more than 3 rail lines and didnt decimate what was once a great BRT line.
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