What happens after a city removes a freeway?
video description
This should be a 1 lane road in each direction, 1 buslane in each direction and a bidirectional bikelane on the water's side of the road, then you could have an occasional SINGLE turn lane. We don't want people to use this as a quick passthrough to get the other side, that's what other streets are for and in fact other streets could be upgraded to allow for better passthrough traffic by possibly removing most on street parking and things like that.
Date: 2021-06-19
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Comments and reviews: 9
Randall
I acknowledge your concerns regarding the number of lanes and the significant distance for pedestrian crossings. There are some existing geographic/grade features between the downtown core and the pier/waterfront that can be used to alleviate some of the concerns and enhance connectivity. There is a SIGNIFICANT grade change from downtown to the waterfront. If memory serves me, the parking garage at Pike Place Market is 4 or 5 levels between street grade at the entrance and the grade of the waterfront.
My suggestion would be to increase the number of planned perpendicular routes from downtown to the waterfront and utilize the change in grade to gradually progress to an elevated crossing of the grade level traffic. This may require several steps in the progression of the connectors. I could guess approximately 6 or 7 blocks for the eventual change in grade. Wholeheartedly agree to new waterfront facing buildings and developments. I would make the components of the perpendicular connections, an integrated part of the promenade along the water. The goal is to have more nonvehicular flow between downtown and the waterfront. I would encourage the perpendicular primarily pedestrian connectors to have significant accommodation for a variety of commercial activities. A high concentration of food trucks or storage unit shops/food options along the connectors between downtown and the waterfront can encourage the use of the connectors and provide a transition.
An additional question I have is if there is any incorporation of Underground Seattle? Historically fires etc resulted in the current downtown Seattle being built over/elevated over the Original Seattle. Since original/underground Seattle is already at a lower grade to current downtown, I could imagine potential incorporation of underground Seattle in the transition/flow between Downtown and the Waterfront. MANY engineering details that I don't know would be involved in answering this question and utilization.
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I acknowledge your concerns regarding the number of lanes and the significant distance for pedestrian crossings. There are some existing geographic/grade features between the downtown core and the pier/waterfront that can be used to alleviate some of the concerns and enhance connectivity. There is a SIGNIFICANT grade change from downtown to the waterfront. If memory serves me, the parking garage at Pike Place Market is 4 or 5 levels between street grade at the entrance and the grade of the waterfront.
My suggestion would be to increase the number of planned perpendicular routes from downtown to the waterfront and utilize the change in grade to gradually progress to an elevated crossing of the grade level traffic. This may require several steps in the progression of the connectors. I could guess approximately 6 or 7 blocks for the eventual change in grade. Wholeheartedly agree to new waterfront facing buildings and developments. I would make the components of the perpendicular connections, an integrated part of the promenade along the water. The goal is to have more nonvehicular flow between downtown and the waterfront. I would encourage the perpendicular primarily pedestrian connectors to have significant accommodation for a variety of commercial activities. A high concentration of food trucks or storage unit shops/food options along the connectors between downtown and the waterfront can encourage the use of the connectors and provide a transition.
An additional question I have is if there is any incorporation of Underground Seattle? Historically fires etc resulted in the current downtown Seattle being built over/elevated over the Original Seattle. Since original/underground Seattle is already at a lower grade to current downtown, I could imagine potential incorporation of underground Seattle in the transition/flow between Downtown and the Waterfront. MANY engineering details that I don't know would be involved in answering this question and utilization.
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Mike
There are four bad reasons the boulevard is wider than before: (1) The tunnel has no downtown exits so cars going downtown and freight going to Interbay have to use the boulevard, whereas before they'd use the viaduct. (2) The viaduct is tolled, so people who don't like tolls switch to the boulevard. (The toll is lower than expected and isn't paying the full cost of the tunnel, because so few drivers will pay the toll. This raises the question of whether the tunnel was necessary) (3) It has two new transit lanes, for buses that used to be on the viaduct and can't use the tunnel because the tunnel has no downtown exits. (4) The state insisted on a ferry-queuing lane for the state ferries. When activists suggested narrowing the boulevard, the state proposed eliminating the transit lanes because it said the ferry lane and four GP lanes were non-negotiable. The port said keeping the ferry lane was a condition of it approving the project. Activists said, um, let's keep the transit lanes, so as a result it won't be narrowed.
The seven lanes are only south of Columbia Street. That's all industrial and the ferry terminal. The touristy area with Pike Place Market and the Aquarium is further north, and it has only four lanes. Then the boulevard turns away from the waterfront, and the northern part is only two lanes and quiet.
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There are four bad reasons the boulevard is wider than before: (1) The tunnel has no downtown exits so cars going downtown and freight going to Interbay have to use the boulevard, whereas before they'd use the viaduct. (2) The viaduct is tolled, so people who don't like tolls switch to the boulevard. (The toll is lower than expected and isn't paying the full cost of the tunnel, because so few drivers will pay the toll. This raises the question of whether the tunnel was necessary) (3) It has two new transit lanes, for buses that used to be on the viaduct and can't use the tunnel because the tunnel has no downtown exits. (4) The state insisted on a ferry-queuing lane for the state ferries. When activists suggested narrowing the boulevard, the state proposed eliminating the transit lanes because it said the ferry lane and four GP lanes were non-negotiable. The port said keeping the ferry lane was a condition of it approving the project. Activists said, um, let's keep the transit lanes, so as a result it won't be narrowed.
The seven lanes are only south of Columbia Street. That's all industrial and the ferry terminal. The touristy area with Pike Place Market and the Aquarium is further north, and it has only four lanes. Then the boulevard turns away from the waterfront, and the northern part is only two lanes and quiet.
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fgkpev
It really bothers when Seattle media and public officials refer to Alaskan Way as waterfront.
Fundamentally the problem with Seattle's waterfront redevelopment is that there really is no access to the waterfront. Almost the whole length of this project is blocked from the water by ugly buildings on piers. There is no intention to change that. In contrast, Vancouver, BC has almost complete public access to the waterfront. What little private waterfront buildings there are (such as West Point Grey Road, the city has been working at taking them over and demolishing them. Even when Vancouver redeveloped its convention center, the building was built with a public access and wide waterfront path.
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It really bothers when Seattle media and public officials refer to Alaskan Way as waterfront.
Fundamentally the problem with Seattle's waterfront redevelopment is that there really is no access to the waterfront. Almost the whole length of this project is blocked from the water by ugly buildings on piers. There is no intention to change that. In contrast, Vancouver, BC has almost complete public access to the waterfront. What little private waterfront buildings there are (such as West Point Grey Road, the city has been working at taking them over and demolishing them. Even when Vancouver redeveloped its convention center, the building was built with a public access and wide waterfront path.
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Chris
First of all, thank you for mentioning Rochester! Haha, the neighborhood of play is gonna be a cool place. There s a crap load of housing going in, but also the Strong National Museum of Play is expanding. That was a big deal. But the bigger deal unfortunately was our mayor. She was the one who filled the darn thing in. And there was a HUGE pushback when they finally filled it in.
Rochester and the State of NY have some funny rules about affordable housing. Basically, if you build new developments in the city, you have to have so much of it dedicated to affordable housing.
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First of all, thank you for mentioning Rochester! Haha, the neighborhood of play is gonna be a cool place. There s a crap load of housing going in, but also the Strong National Museum of Play is expanding. That was a big deal. But the bigger deal unfortunately was our mayor. She was the one who filled the darn thing in. And there was a HUGE pushback when they finally filled it in.
Rochester and the State of NY have some funny rules about affordable housing. Basically, if you build new developments in the city, you have to have so much of it dedicated to affordable housing.
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travel
Brisbane in Australia has the Riverside Expressway which is essentially a bridge sitting over and running parallel to the bank of the Brisbane River past the most built up part of the city. Now they re building a new development that s going to try and reclaim the bank a bit by building right up to the expressway and then adding parkland on the far side of it. The opposing bank already has an extensive world class green space and cultural precinct but it s interesting to see that the current development for the other bank seems committed to keeping the expressway in place
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Brisbane in Australia has the Riverside Expressway which is essentially a bridge sitting over and running parallel to the bank of the Brisbane River past the most built up part of the city. Now they re building a new development that s going to try and reclaim the bank a bit by building right up to the expressway and then adding parkland on the far side of it. The opposing bank already has an extensive world class green space and cultural precinct but it s interesting to see that the current development for the other bank seems committed to keeping the expressway in place
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Lucas
Hey City Beautiful! Long time viewer here, aspiring architect, but this is the first time I've seen one of your video hit close to home (I'm brazilian and things move in another pace here. You made me think about the waterfront in my city (Porto Alegre. Its been recently redeveloped, but there was many outcries trying to make it more communal and full of public spaces and less 'capitalist' and full of shops and restaurants. If you ask me, they hit the head of the nail spliting between uses but there's a lot of resistance still. Hope its a good study case!
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Hey City Beautiful! Long time viewer here, aspiring architect, but this is the first time I've seen one of your video hit close to home (I'm brazilian and things move in another pace here. You made me think about the waterfront in my city (Porto Alegre. Its been recently redeveloped, but there was many outcries trying to make it more communal and full of public spaces and less 'capitalist' and full of shops and restaurants. If you ask me, they hit the head of the nail spliting between uses but there's a lot of resistance still. Hope its a good study case!
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John
A few years ago in Detroit a developer wanted to build an aquarium on the water front, but the mayor declined it because he was afraid that families had to cross an 8 lane road to access it even though there is already a large parking garage next to the site go figure. Today it is still a lot for parked vehicles.
There are on going plans to demolish the freeway on the eastern side of Downtown, but looking at the renders there are so many lanes. We already have a freeway the connects directly to Downtown on the western and northern side of Downtown.
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A few years ago in Detroit a developer wanted to build an aquarium on the water front, but the mayor declined it because he was afraid that families had to cross an 8 lane road to access it even though there is already a large parking garage next to the site go figure. Today it is still a lot for parked vehicles.
There are on going plans to demolish the freeway on the eastern side of Downtown, but looking at the renders there are so many lanes. We already have a freeway the connects directly to Downtown on the western and northern side of Downtown.
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Cheratomo
As part of the waterfront project they re adding green space and bike lanes which I love but absolutely when I read their pdf report about the waterfront road it made no sense. So many lanes, how is anyone going to drive that way and figure out which lane to go in? If they want tourists there, no one is gonna drive because the lanes will freak them out. And yet they re taking away car lanes in the roads leading to the waterfront? In the doc they said their priority was retaining road access for trucks coming off the ferries yeah, no kidding.
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As part of the waterfront project they re adding green space and bike lanes which I love but absolutely when I read their pdf report about the waterfront road it made no sense. So many lanes, how is anyone going to drive that way and figure out which lane to go in? If they want tourists there, no one is gonna drive because the lanes will freak them out. And yet they re taking away car lanes in the roads leading to the waterfront? In the doc they said their priority was retaining road access for trucks coming off the ferries yeah, no kidding.
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cade
As someone who as born and raised in the Seattle Metro Area who has been to the waterfront numerous times throughout my childhood and early teenage years, I can assure you that even without any of the fancy new city development, the waterfront already looks better without that ugly grey viaduct. I love how open the waterfront is and, even with some less than appealing looking buildings, gives you an amazing view of one of the best skylines in the world.
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As someone who as born and raised in the Seattle Metro Area who has been to the waterfront numerous times throughout my childhood and early teenage years, I can assure you that even without any of the fancy new city development, the waterfront already looks better without that ugly grey viaduct. I love how open the waterfront is and, even with some less than appealing looking buildings, gives you an amazing view of one of the best skylines in the world.
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