Residential streets are too wide. Here's why.
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Date: 2019-09-12
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Comments and reviews: 10
Robert Rebbe
I agree with a lot of what your reasons are here but you are not considering a few things. Some areas have multiple generations living together because of high housing costs and ALL the street parking places are taken ALL the time AND the streets are too narrow to drive safely even without all those cars. If you came to most middle income suburbs in California you would find this. It SUCKS. When my wife and I were looking for a house in northern California we couldn't find ANY areas where we felt the streets were wide enough to feel safe driving down them. The only solution that ever works for problems of street safety are speedbumps, and people HATE them but they hate them a LOT less than telling them you are going to come through and make it MORE difficult (and I think LESS safe for all drivers and especially bike riders) to drive on them, you have something everyone will end up hating. If you want to help with water draining, redesign the surface itself to let water through somehow. If you want people to slow down and to help make things safer, post cops around for a while and then randomly, or put in speed bumps. Build proper sidewalks and separated bike lanes. No matter what INVOLVE the drivers in the area and reach a common consensus, otherwise your efforts, no matter how logical, ecological, and well-intentioned will either fail or cause enormous animosity, or both.
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I agree with a lot of what your reasons are here but you are not considering a few things. Some areas have multiple generations living together because of high housing costs and ALL the street parking places are taken ALL the time AND the streets are too narrow to drive safely even without all those cars. If you came to most middle income suburbs in California you would find this. It SUCKS. When my wife and I were looking for a house in northern California we couldn't find ANY areas where we felt the streets were wide enough to feel safe driving down them. The only solution that ever works for problems of street safety are speedbumps, and people HATE them but they hate them a LOT less than telling them you are going to come through and make it MORE difficult (and I think LESS safe for all drivers and especially bike riders) to drive on them, you have something everyone will end up hating. If you want to help with water draining, redesign the surface itself to let water through somehow. If you want people to slow down and to help make things safer, post cops around for a while and then randomly, or put in speed bumps. Build proper sidewalks and separated bike lanes. No matter what INVOLVE the drivers in the area and reach a common consensus, otherwise your efforts, no matter how logical, ecological, and well-intentioned will either fail or cause enormous animosity, or both.
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Henry Lahman
Residential streets need to be wide so school buses can get through. The standard school bus is 43' long with an up to 6' tail swing. Combined with a blind spot directly behind it (and extending up to 200', most companies and districts don't allow drivers to backup without assistance. So now, because of one illegally parked car, traffic piles up for twenty minutes because the bus is stuck blocking the road (or they're just stuck in the lane unable to pass it, backing up some but not all of the traffic. It's already tricky to drive a school bus on garbage day, take away the extra ten feet and you have a serious problem. You could have different school bus schedules for the different days of the week, or coordinate closely between the school district and/or busing company and sanitation department and/or a slew of private garbage collectors, but you're fundamentally destroying the easy solution we already have: streets with more than the minimum safe width for two school buses that are nearly 10' wide mirror to mirror. Nevermind the snowplow issue (you can't actually plow all the way to the curb with standard plows. Plus being able to turn right out of driveways without blocking oncoming traffic is nice.
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Residential streets need to be wide so school buses can get through. The standard school bus is 43' long with an up to 6' tail swing. Combined with a blind spot directly behind it (and extending up to 200', most companies and districts don't allow drivers to backup without assistance. So now, because of one illegally parked car, traffic piles up for twenty minutes because the bus is stuck blocking the road (or they're just stuck in the lane unable to pass it, backing up some but not all of the traffic. It's already tricky to drive a school bus on garbage day, take away the extra ten feet and you have a serious problem. You could have different school bus schedules for the different days of the week, or coordinate closely between the school district and/or busing company and sanitation department and/or a slew of private garbage collectors, but you're fundamentally destroying the easy solution we already have: streets with more than the minimum safe width for two school buses that are nearly 10' wide mirror to mirror. Nevermind the snowplow issue (you can't actually plow all the way to the curb with standard plows. Plus being able to turn right out of driveways without blocking oncoming traffic is nice.
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Isaiah
Interesting idea but it would have to be implemented on a case by basis. For instance I live with my parents and our house has a one car driveway where my mom parks, so me and my dad have to park in the street. There is room for both our vehicles there but no more than that. I have 6 siblings and three of us are adults but I'm the only one with a vehicle, but if they bought a vehicle they would have nowhere to park. Also I live in Michigan where 5-6 months out of the year it is winter, and in winter you can't park on the street from dusk till dawn( which is about 14 hours of darkness per day) so they can plow. You will get a ticket or possibly get your vehicle damaged by the snow and debris the plow will cover your car with if you leave it there. So we have to park in the yard during winter which tears up the grass and leaves tracks that will swallow a grown man whole. I like the one lane with dedicated parking idea but what if two car's are coming at each other and all the parking spots are full so you can't get out of each others way? Maybe if the narrowed the roads they could expand people driveways for them as part of the budget.
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Interesting idea but it would have to be implemented on a case by basis. For instance I live with my parents and our house has a one car driveway where my mom parks, so me and my dad have to park in the street. There is room for both our vehicles there but no more than that. I have 6 siblings and three of us are adults but I'm the only one with a vehicle, but if they bought a vehicle they would have nowhere to park. Also I live in Michigan where 5-6 months out of the year it is winter, and in winter you can't park on the street from dusk till dawn( which is about 14 hours of darkness per day) so they can plow. You will get a ticket or possibly get your vehicle damaged by the snow and debris the plow will cover your car with if you leave it there. So we have to park in the yard during winter which tears up the grass and leaves tracks that will swallow a grown man whole. I like the one lane with dedicated parking idea but what if two car's are coming at each other and all the parking spots are full so you can't get out of each others way? Maybe if the narrowed the roads they could expand people driveways for them as part of the budget.
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Nebs
New residential areas in Australia are a joke. Each residential lot is tiny and the streets are narrow. Even so, Australia still has the largest average house size in the world. Standard modern single garages don't fit a sedan in them, double garages only fit one car comfortably. Two cars can cram in if you only want to open doors on one side. Most driveways can only fit one car in the driveway. This means almost every house has a car parked on the street. One house in my street has 4 cars parked on the street. Now remember I said the streets are narrow, if you park two cars opposite each other on the street you would struggle to squeeze a small hatchback between them. I have seen trucks reverse down the entire street because they came across some idiots parked opposite each other. I actually planed ahead and bought a huge block(for this area. I have space for 6 cars to park on my driveway and garage. My backyard is still big and the house is big too. I love my house and land, I just hate the roads and crammed blocks nearby. I would have already moved if my house wasn't so nice.
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New residential areas in Australia are a joke. Each residential lot is tiny and the streets are narrow. Even so, Australia still has the largest average house size in the world. Standard modern single garages don't fit a sedan in them, double garages only fit one car comfortably. Two cars can cram in if you only want to open doors on one side. Most driveways can only fit one car in the driveway. This means almost every house has a car parked on the street. One house in my street has 4 cars parked on the street. Now remember I said the streets are narrow, if you park two cars opposite each other on the street you would struggle to squeeze a small hatchback between them. I have seen trucks reverse down the entire street because they came across some idiots parked opposite each other. I actually planed ahead and bought a huge block(for this area. I have space for 6 cars to park on my driveway and garage. My backyard is still big and the house is big too. I love my house and land, I just hate the roads and crammed blocks nearby. I would have already moved if my house wasn't so nice.
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Scott
A nice bit of information. A lot of that seems logical. Though, I'd rather have wider streets with ample speed bumps instead of a narrow street. Though, I do like the idea of narrowing certain areas of the street. In the midwest we have to contend with snow. It has to go somewhere and at times it can be a huge amount depending on where. Limited spots on the street, in general, I'd say has the potential of increasing hostility between neighbors. I've seen some really poorly designed condo areas where residents have decent length driveways, but have to play musical chairs with their cars if they have more than one car. That leads to extra wear on their cars over time from starting and stopping them abruptly to move them as needed and a waste fuel. I don't mind walking when I can, but many areas lack sidewalks and it feels like a risk to walk on the edge of most streets. In that respect I understand that narrow streets or adding things like speed bumps would be nice. though I'd rather just have a sidewalk.
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A nice bit of information. A lot of that seems logical. Though, I'd rather have wider streets with ample speed bumps instead of a narrow street. Though, I do like the idea of narrowing certain areas of the street. In the midwest we have to contend with snow. It has to go somewhere and at times it can be a huge amount depending on where. Limited spots on the street, in general, I'd say has the potential of increasing hostility between neighbors. I've seen some really poorly designed condo areas where residents have decent length driveways, but have to play musical chairs with their cars if they have more than one car. That leads to extra wear on their cars over time from starting and stopping them abruptly to move them as needed and a waste fuel. I don't mind walking when I can, but many areas lack sidewalks and it feels like a risk to walk on the edge of most streets. In that respect I understand that narrow streets or adding things like speed bumps would be nice. though I'd rather just have a sidewalk.
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Entropy Zero
As a German, these suburban streets look like ones that are designed to have two lanes in each direction (not sure whether the correct term for that is 2- or 4-lane road) Heck, some of them look like they might even be able to accommodate a shoulder in addition to that. I get that they are designed for on-street parking - but you could park in two rows or in one row of cars perpendicular to the road _on both sides_ and still be able to drive through them at a reasonable pace for a residential road. And yet if my eyes don't deceive me on the first picture people are still parking partway on the sidewalk? I get that there is a lot of room and everything in the US is bigger, but this just seems wasteful to me 0o(Also, I probably would be very uncomfortable driving on a road this large without any sort of markings as I would have no idea how many lanes it is actually supposed to have)
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As a German, these suburban streets look like ones that are designed to have two lanes in each direction (not sure whether the correct term for that is 2- or 4-lane road) Heck, some of them look like they might even be able to accommodate a shoulder in addition to that. I get that they are designed for on-street parking - but you could park in two rows or in one row of cars perpendicular to the road _on both sides_ and still be able to drive through them at a reasonable pace for a residential road. And yet if my eyes don't deceive me on the first picture people are still parking partway on the sidewalk? I get that there is a lot of room and everything in the US is bigger, but this just seems wasteful to me 0o(Also, I probably would be very uncomfortable driving on a road this large without any sort of markings as I would have no idea how many lanes it is actually supposed to have)
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ParabolicCat
Wide streets are awesome, I hope your silly crusade fails. Residential neighborhoods are home to families, wide streets give kids room to play. If a ball rolls into the street and a little kid chases after it I'd rather have a huge road to swerve to avoid it on rather than some narrow alley. Same thing for animals, dogs, cats, squirrels, they run in the road too. You want animals dying here? Also use the driveway? Enjoy getting your car towed, that is not a public parking space, you can't just park in some stranger's driveway. I go to parks where sometimes the only access is neighborhood parking. I either park on the street or don't go at all. The idea of European towns making their streets narrower on purpose by putting obstructions in them for safety is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Get that crap out of the street, you're asking for more accidents.
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Wide streets are awesome, I hope your silly crusade fails. Residential neighborhoods are home to families, wide streets give kids room to play. If a ball rolls into the street and a little kid chases after it I'd rather have a huge road to swerve to avoid it on rather than some narrow alley. Same thing for animals, dogs, cats, squirrels, they run in the road too. You want animals dying here? Also use the driveway? Enjoy getting your car towed, that is not a public parking space, you can't just park in some stranger's driveway. I go to parks where sometimes the only access is neighborhood parking. I either park on the street or don't go at all. The idea of European towns making their streets narrower on purpose by putting obstructions in them for safety is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Get that crap out of the street, you're asking for more accidents.
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latinworldexplorer
Hey buddy, I do agree with several points that you make in this video. Streets in Europe are so much more narrower, and most people live in small apartments in buildings where in the same foot print as a single family home stateside you have 10, 20 or more families living over there in Europe. It makes for much more togetherness, closeness. It makes everything so much more walkable. You can forgo a car. But do keep in mind that many people stateside who own or live in homes with a garage, they never use such a garage for their cars. The cars park in the driveway, in front of the garage, as the garage becomes your storage space for all the junk that people stateside like to accumulate. It would be fair to say that you can take out a very large percentage of garages in homes out of your calculations there. People just dont use them for cars.
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Hey buddy, I do agree with several points that you make in this video. Streets in Europe are so much more narrower, and most people live in small apartments in buildings where in the same foot print as a single family home stateside you have 10, 20 or more families living over there in Europe. It makes for much more togetherness, closeness. It makes everything so much more walkable. You can forgo a car. But do keep in mind that many people stateside who own or live in homes with a garage, they never use such a garage for their cars. The cars park in the driveway, in front of the garage, as the garage becomes your storage space for all the junk that people stateside like to accumulate. It would be fair to say that you can take out a very large percentage of garages in homes out of your calculations there. People just dont use them for cars.
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Chengyan Boon
Here in Vancouver urban planners actually advocate for street parking as a way to induce traffic calming. I don't know what it is about here, but barely anyone has a driveway or garage in the city proper. Maybe it's because people are more into building laneway houses nowadays. In any case, street parking usage is incredibly high and well-utilized, so the extra parked cars on the side have a slowing effect on drivers (which I guess makes sense if there's lots, all the time, which doesn't seem to be the case for the streets you showed in Oregon. Finally parking can be a barrier between the street and a bike lane (parking-protected bike lanes) which from what I understand are becoming more popular in New York and really do feel a lot safer for cyclists.
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Here in Vancouver urban planners actually advocate for street parking as a way to induce traffic calming. I don't know what it is about here, but barely anyone has a driveway or garage in the city proper. Maybe it's because people are more into building laneway houses nowadays. In any case, street parking usage is incredibly high and well-utilized, so the extra parked cars on the side have a slowing effect on drivers (which I guess makes sense if there's lots, all the time, which doesn't seem to be the case for the streets you showed in Oregon. Finally parking can be a barrier between the street and a bike lane (parking-protected bike lanes) which from what I understand are becoming more popular in New York and really do feel a lot safer for cyclists.
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Trdat
What about a video on narrow or wide streets for city streets? I understand that the US city planning is totally different than Europe but in Denmark I know that there was massive debates on street widths. Many proponents fought for typical narrow streets to mimic other parts of Europe especially in the city centre to increase walk through, spending etc etc. Although still narrow compared to US, I think the wider width backers won. Yerevan, Armenia also other parts of Soviet is a great example of wide streets gone wrong in every way again although many people are proud of the wide streets but don't understand the negative effects on the local economy. Can you do a detailed video explaining perhaps the logic behind narrow and wide streets in city centres.
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What about a video on narrow or wide streets for city streets? I understand that the US city planning is totally different than Europe but in Denmark I know that there was massive debates on street widths. Many proponents fought for typical narrow streets to mimic other parts of Europe especially in the city centre to increase walk through, spending etc etc. Although still narrow compared to US, I think the wider width backers won. Yerevan, Armenia also other parts of Soviet is a great example of wide streets gone wrong in every way again although many people are proud of the wide streets but don't understand the negative effects on the local economy. Can you do a detailed video explaining perhaps the logic behind narrow and wide streets in city centres.
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