Did pedestrian malls ruin U. S. downtowns?
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Date: 2019-10-24
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Comments and reviews: 9
shotelco
Culture shift: Isn't the current definition of Malls one that revolves around tourism, and no longer actual shopping? We can either go to Amazon on our own, at 9 o'clock at night, and have (our order) there in two days, Or we could wait until the weekend, and get everybody in the car, go out shopping and hopefully we find what we want. As more consumption addled Americans choose to shop online (over 10% of all retail now, the faster traditional brick-mortar retailers will go bankrupt. How will Urban Planners deal with the fact that Americans will simply go to work, come home, shop online - where everything. including restaurant food and groceries are delivered to them (which also self-perpetuates the growing anti-social mentality that U. S. citizens seem to be gravitating to) - in designs for the future? Do we really need city planners for an American future that ultimately may resemble cities of cylindrical tower Pods in the Matrix movies?
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Culture shift: Isn't the current definition of Malls one that revolves around tourism, and no longer actual shopping? We can either go to Amazon on our own, at 9 o'clock at night, and have (our order) there in two days, Or we could wait until the weekend, and get everybody in the car, go out shopping and hopefully we find what we want. As more consumption addled Americans choose to shop online (over 10% of all retail now, the faster traditional brick-mortar retailers will go bankrupt. How will Urban Planners deal with the fact that Americans will simply go to work, come home, shop online - where everything. including restaurant food and groceries are delivered to them (which also self-perpetuates the growing anti-social mentality that U. S. citizens seem to be gravitating to) - in designs for the future? Do we really need city planners for an American future that ultimately may resemble cities of cylindrical tower Pods in the Matrix movies?
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DrDewott
I mean one thing I will add from European experience is that these kinds of things will often get a lot of foot traffic if a big means of transportation is nearby. I know this is a department the US is really lacking behind in, and heck my home country of Denmark is lacking behind this too. But if there's one thing I can see in a lot of European towns it's that pedestrian streets and train stations often go hand in hand. Especially in cities of the 20k-100k population range. However I often see that with new rail development, both in the US and Denmark that there are no plans or room for businesses near new train stations. Most of the time they just have big parking lots attached and are otherwise far away from anything else, making it very unattractive to use the trains as well as hurting business overall in the area since the customer base will be significantly lower when ease of access is limited away from transit.
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I mean one thing I will add from European experience is that these kinds of things will often get a lot of foot traffic if a big means of transportation is nearby. I know this is a department the US is really lacking behind in, and heck my home country of Denmark is lacking behind this too. But if there's one thing I can see in a lot of European towns it's that pedestrian streets and train stations often go hand in hand. Especially in cities of the 20k-100k population range. However I often see that with new rail development, both in the US and Denmark that there are no plans or room for businesses near new train stations. Most of the time they just have big parking lots attached and are otherwise far away from anything else, making it very unattractive to use the trains as well as hurting business overall in the area since the customer base will be significantly lower when ease of access is limited away from transit.
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Nunovia Gottdamnedbizzness
I'm not sure if these exist in the US but in Canada we have underground pedestrian malls, like the Path system in Toronto that links hundreds of office blocks, condo towers, hotels, stadiums, museums, shopping malls with over. 20 miles of tunnels all lined with even more shops, restaurants, food courts and bars. It's also connected to the subway, which eliminates a lot of outdoor winter travel in a harsh climate. Other cities have similar systems, Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton. There are also cities where the bedrock makes tunneling too expensive so buildings are connected with over head glassed in suspended walkways like the Skywalk in Halifax, and another in Saint John. Toronto has the largest underground system in the world, even life long residents can still get lost in the miles of endless subterrean suburban sprawl underneath the downtown core of Canada's largest city
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I'm not sure if these exist in the US but in Canada we have underground pedestrian malls, like the Path system in Toronto that links hundreds of office blocks, condo towers, hotels, stadiums, museums, shopping malls with over. 20 miles of tunnels all lined with even more shops, restaurants, food courts and bars. It's also connected to the subway, which eliminates a lot of outdoor winter travel in a harsh climate. Other cities have similar systems, Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton. There are also cities where the bedrock makes tunneling too expensive so buildings are connected with over head glassed in suspended walkways like the Skywalk in Halifax, and another in Saint John. Toronto has the largest underground system in the world, even life long residents can still get lost in the miles of endless subterrean suburban sprawl underneath the downtown core of Canada's largest city
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Cal3000
Suburbanism ruined everything. It's all cookie cutter and every suburban mall or shopping area is generic and look the same everywhere in America. Urban or larger downtown shopping centers bring a unique vibe to them. They are all over Tokyo from Shibuya to Shinjuku. Same in Shanghai or HK. One thing that these cities have in common is that the middle class are able to live in the densely populated environment. No adays in America, this is being reserved for the rich where rent for flats are double or triple that of apartments in suburban areas. Bring affordable housing back to the cities and major downtown area businesses will thrive, and public transit will expand.
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Suburbanism ruined everything. It's all cookie cutter and every suburban mall or shopping area is generic and look the same everywhere in America. Urban or larger downtown shopping centers bring a unique vibe to them. They are all over Tokyo from Shibuya to Shinjuku. Same in Shanghai or HK. One thing that these cities have in common is that the middle class are able to live in the densely populated environment. No adays in America, this is being reserved for the rich where rent for flats are double or triple that of apartments in suburban areas. Bring affordable housing back to the cities and major downtown area businesses will thrive, and public transit will expand.
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ThreeRunHomer
The key to success for pedestrianized streets is: outdoor dining. People LOVE to eat outside, but there is no place in the suburbs to do it (because eating outside next to a parking lot sucks. Remove traffic from a downtown street and it becomes an ideal venue for outdoor dining. Your study appears to have missed Market Square in downtown Knoxville, Tennessee. Super successful with many restaurants and shops. Vitality has spread from there throughout downtown. Final note the downtown mall in Charlottesville, Virginia, is not particularly close to the university and doesnt depend on students for financial support.
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The key to success for pedestrianized streets is: outdoor dining. People LOVE to eat outside, but there is no place in the suburbs to do it (because eating outside next to a parking lot sucks. Remove traffic from a downtown street and it becomes an ideal venue for outdoor dining. Your study appears to have missed Market Square in downtown Knoxville, Tennessee. Super successful with many restaurants and shops. Vitality has spread from there throughout downtown. Final note the downtown mall in Charlottesville, Virginia, is not particularly close to the university and doesnt depend on students for financial support.
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Mike
This reminds me of the (still living) Austrian urban designer Hermann Knoflacher. He said, that a car doesn't buy anything. And yeah, pedestrian friendly malls/streets/plazas are a nice place to be. It makes the city itself more livable. And American cities can be walkable too I was in Philadelphia, PA and Washington DC, and to me personally, I thought these were quite walkable cities. The way bigger disadvantage American cities have, are suburbs and a lot of incoming comuters, who rely on a car to get to work. (And insane zoning codes and regulations as minimum parking)
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This reminds me of the (still living) Austrian urban designer Hermann Knoflacher. He said, that a car doesn't buy anything. And yeah, pedestrian friendly malls/streets/plazas are a nice place to be. It makes the city itself more livable. And American cities can be walkable too I was in Philadelphia, PA and Washington DC, and to me personally, I thought these were quite walkable cities. The way bigger disadvantage American cities have, are suburbs and a lot of incoming comuters, who rely on a car to get to work. (And insane zoning codes and regulations as minimum parking)
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Demetrius Hicks
Greenville, NC also had a pedestrian mall, I believe from the 70s through mid-90s. In Greenville, we have a large college but the pedestrian mall wasnt built exactly in the best location (more near our courthouse as opposed to the large university, East Carolina. Im running for Mayor of my city, and Ive floated the idea of a pedestrian mall or plaza, much closer to our university. The current strip of road has a popular restaurants, a few clubs, etc. Hopefully, if I win, we could try to build a successful Plaza again in our city.
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Greenville, NC also had a pedestrian mall, I believe from the 70s through mid-90s. In Greenville, we have a large college but the pedestrian mall wasnt built exactly in the best location (more near our courthouse as opposed to the large university, East Carolina. Im running for Mayor of my city, and Ive floated the idea of a pedestrian mall or plaza, much closer to our university. The current strip of road has a popular restaurants, a few clubs, etc. Hopefully, if I win, we could try to build a successful Plaza again in our city.
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Major Fallacy
This video is about my own research Oh, so it's going to be about how urban planning data is a pain in the ass? Yep it is. Have you considered access to public transport in your research? If no, that is probably a big factor. Some of the most popular ones i know (in europe) follow a subway line or at least have a bus or two. I don't know if that falls into transit mall because i've never heard that word before, but if so I think you absolutely should compare them to non-transit ones instead of discarding them
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This video is about my own research Oh, so it's going to be about how urban planning data is a pain in the ass? Yep it is. Have you considered access to public transport in your research? If no, that is probably a big factor. Some of the most popular ones i know (in europe) follow a subway line or at least have a bus or two. I don't know if that falls into transit mall because i've never heard that word before, but if so I think you absolutely should compare them to non-transit ones instead of discarding them
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Kurt John
Parking: I went to Iowa. I started in 1999, and the downtown area was empty. When I started, Iowa City considered their ped mall a failure. There were a few bars and a lot of empty stores. By the time I left, the Ped mall was improving and once my younger sister graduated (4 years difference, the ped mall was thriving. Iowa City added parking garages to allow the suburban population to drive and park in the downtown area. I assume most ped malls fail or thrive based on parking.
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Parking: I went to Iowa. I started in 1999, and the downtown area was empty. When I started, Iowa City considered their ped mall a failure. There were a few bars and a lot of empty stores. By the time I left, the Ped mall was improving and once my younger sister graduated (4 years difference, the ped mall was thriving. Iowa City added parking garages to allow the suburban population to drive and park in the downtown area. I assume most ped malls fail or thrive based on parking.
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