An Introduction to District Heating Systems
video description
- waste incineration doesn't provide anywhere near enough heat on its own. We burn pretty much all municipal trash and even in a mild winter like right now we get somewhere around 10% of our heat from waste, with far from 100% coverage. Waste incineration also needs additional fuel to burn properly. It's a nice addon, but not a solution to the energy crisis.
- Piping capacity is a major issue, arguably the most important one. Low capacity means you need higher temperatures, which makes renewable heat sources like heat pumps and geothermal plants inefficient (also applies to thermal plants but to a lesser degree, and adding more is hard because you'd need to dig up half the city. And we're already lucky to have heavily invested into district heating in the past, most cities have even higher costs.
Date: 2023-01-25
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Comments and reviews: 14
karlInSanDiego
Waste To Energy is NOT sustainable. It is a hack to deal to wasteful consumption. You know what doesn't burn well in WTE? Organic material. It's wet and doesn't generate high energy output, so the wise thing to do with organic waste stream is to reuse it as compost, NOT burn it. This involve aerobics processing of it to make it into carbon returned to farming.
The key caloric input to WTE is plastic, which is not sustainable. This is essentially burning oil after it was used as plastic. Sweden has resorted to importing trash from thousands of miles away to feed their WTE, because when we reduce plastic in prep for eliminating oil extraction, you end up with no more feedstock for WTE. So WTE is not sustainable. We cannot power ourselves burning trash. Therefore building district heating based on WTE is shortsighted and will be in contention with reducing the creation of waste as they rely on waste for their heat. Like powering cars with used fast food frying oil, this solution does not scale. It's a hack built off the back of unsustainable consumption. We must move away from excessive plastic and single use packaging. Once done, our waste stream is hopefully a small portion of spoiled food and other organic waste. We will not burn this.
District heating isn't more efficient or logical. 5th generation heating and cooling with low temperature water exchange can allow some buildings that have permanent need for cooling matching the needs for buildings with permanent need for heating. But otherwise, this is just engineering that lacks forward thought and sustainability.
reply
Waste To Energy is NOT sustainable. It is a hack to deal to wasteful consumption. You know what doesn't burn well in WTE? Organic material. It's wet and doesn't generate high energy output, so the wise thing to do with organic waste stream is to reuse it as compost, NOT burn it. This involve aerobics processing of it to make it into carbon returned to farming.
The key caloric input to WTE is plastic, which is not sustainable. This is essentially burning oil after it was used as plastic. Sweden has resorted to importing trash from thousands of miles away to feed their WTE, because when we reduce plastic in prep for eliminating oil extraction, you end up with no more feedstock for WTE. So WTE is not sustainable. We cannot power ourselves burning trash. Therefore building district heating based on WTE is shortsighted and will be in contention with reducing the creation of waste as they rely on waste for their heat. Like powering cars with used fast food frying oil, this solution does not scale. It's a hack built off the back of unsustainable consumption. We must move away from excessive plastic and single use packaging. Once done, our waste stream is hopefully a small portion of spoiled food and other organic waste. We will not burn this.
District heating isn't more efficient or logical. 5th generation heating and cooling with low temperature water exchange can allow some buildings that have permanent need for cooling matching the needs for buildings with permanent need for heating. But otherwise, this is just engineering that lacks forward thought and sustainability.
reply
PhilfreezeCH
My parents were recently connected to their district heating system and its great!
For one, no more boiler maintenance which means the cost-of-living is way more predictable (you will never have to replace your heating system for a lot of money, instead it is just a monthly fee like electricity.
Additionally, they gained a whole ass room in their house since they don t need the big and bulky heating system anymore.
The best thing is of course that the district heating system uses an energy mix and as long as the temperatures aren t too low it can run solely on renewables (in-ground heat pumps and geothermal) and only if the heating demand is high enough will it turn on the oil and wood pellet burners.
The local government also only connect you to the district heating system if you agree to improve your home insulation, which is done via a credit that you pay off over the monthly fees for the next 20 years, meaning it is actually super affordable.
reply
My parents were recently connected to their district heating system and its great!
For one, no more boiler maintenance which means the cost-of-living is way more predictable (you will never have to replace your heating system for a lot of money, instead it is just a monthly fee like electricity.
Additionally, they gained a whole ass room in their house since they don t need the big and bulky heating system anymore.
The best thing is of course that the district heating system uses an energy mix and as long as the temperatures aren t too low it can run solely on renewables (in-ground heat pumps and geothermal) and only if the heating demand is high enough will it turn on the oil and wood pellet burners.
The local government also only connect you to the district heating system if you agree to improve your home insulation, which is done via a credit that you pay off over the monthly fees for the next 20 years, meaning it is actually super affordable.
reply
jaxvoice
The ongoing energy crisis is making us more creative in Europe. Waste heat is a resource, but has often been treated as a problem.
Not only can we get a lot of useful district heating from power plants, like nuclear or bioenergy/waste incinerators, industry too can produce and take advantage of heat recycling, both producing and consuming. A data centre may produce low grade heat, a steel mill high grade heat, far from any urban centre. But this cheap heat can be useful for e. g. indoor farming that uses considerable heat especially in winter, or other heat-intensive production, e. g. glass making.
reply
The ongoing energy crisis is making us more creative in Europe. Waste heat is a resource, but has often been treated as a problem.
Not only can we get a lot of useful district heating from power plants, like nuclear or bioenergy/waste incinerators, industry too can produce and take advantage of heat recycling, both producing and consuming. A data centre may produce low grade heat, a steel mill high grade heat, far from any urban centre. But this cheap heat can be useful for e. g. indoor farming that uses considerable heat especially in winter, or other heat-intensive production, e. g. glass making.
reply
Tom
I live directly across a street (well, a canal) from the city heating plant in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. It's in the dense center of town, yet has a surprisingly small footprint. I pay an estimated amount ( 200) each month to the landlord; I assume the building as a whole is billed. My radiators have little meters on them, so ostensibly I'll receive a bill or refund corresponding to the amount that I personally used. I've only been here a few months, though; I think they work it out annually. Anyway, from my point of view it works like any other radiator, with an on/off knob. Seems to function just fine.
reply
I live directly across a street (well, a canal) from the city heating plant in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. It's in the dense center of town, yet has a surprisingly small footprint. I pay an estimated amount ( 200) each month to the landlord; I assume the building as a whole is billed. My radiators have little meters on them, so ostensibly I'll receive a bill or refund corresponding to the amount that I personally used. I've only been here a few months, though; I think they work it out annually. Anyway, from my point of view it works like any other radiator, with an on/off knob. Seems to function just fine.
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Thorbj rn
There is another level to this, in Sweden at least, large furnaces etc. from industry are connected to provide heat to municipal heating. The industry sell the heat to the city network instead of venting it all to waste. And the city don't need to burn something on their own to provide the heat.
If there is one industry in a village or small town, they often are the solve heating provider. So central heating is not just for cities.
And this is the reason Sweden import garbage, due to recycling we no longer generate enough domestic garbage to fuel the heating plants.
reply
There is another level to this, in Sweden at least, large furnaces etc. from industry are connected to provide heat to municipal heating. The industry sell the heat to the city network instead of venting it all to waste. And the city don't need to burn something on their own to provide the heat.
If there is one industry in a village or small town, they often are the solve heating provider. So central heating is not just for cities.
And this is the reason Sweden import garbage, due to recycling we no longer generate enough domestic garbage to fuel the heating plants.
reply
steem
District heating? THAT'S COMMUNISM! UnAmerican!
I used to live where you got heating and warm water from a 1km far plant. It was HOT. They feed it with 76 and I got it at 74 I think. Now I live where I have to make the hot water myself in a small unit. It's a trickle compared to the gush before and also never as hot. I really miss the easiness. Also, if somethign would happen know who long it would take for someone to come repair it. If something stops working that the town uses to heat thousands of people, they have their own staff coming in an emergency.
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District heating? THAT'S COMMUNISM! UnAmerican!
I used to live where you got heating and warm water from a 1km far plant. It was HOT. They feed it with 76 and I got it at 74 I think. Now I live where I have to make the hot water myself in a small unit. It's a trickle compared to the gush before and also never as hot. I really miss the easiness. Also, if somethign would happen know who long it would take for someone to come repair it. If something stops working that the town uses to heat thousands of people, they have their own staff coming in an emergency.
reply
Jabli ka
I lived with district heating the entire time living in Czechia. Pros: very cheap hot water, never needed to turn the radiators on as the transport pipes running through the flat did all the heating necessary, water was always hot enough to use. Cons: if you use more than your allotted share it's very expensive, two weeks of no hot water in summer while the plant undergoes maintenance (and other off periods where work is required.
All in all, it's a big thumbs up from me and worth the occsional inconvenience.
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I lived with district heating the entire time living in Czechia. Pros: very cheap hot water, never needed to turn the radiators on as the transport pipes running through the flat did all the heating necessary, water was always hot enough to use. Cons: if you use more than your allotted share it's very expensive, two weeks of no hot water in summer while the plant undergoes maintenance (and other off periods where work is required.
All in all, it's a big thumbs up from me and worth the occsional inconvenience.
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Thercon
Switzerland uses the same practice of refuse incineration plants to create district heating. There is an older one a couple kilometers away from where I live. It is up for modernisation and will be resized as there's less incinerable waste being produced. The local green party launched an initiative to use the modernisation for an upgrade to co-generation. It was approved by over 75% of voters. Our municipality sadly hasn't yet joined the future district heating network, but there wasn't yet a vote on it.
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Switzerland uses the same practice of refuse incineration plants to create district heating. There is an older one a couple kilometers away from where I live. It is up for modernisation and will be resized as there's less incinerable waste being produced. The local green party launched an initiative to use the modernisation for an upgrade to co-generation. It was approved by over 75% of voters. Our municipality sadly hasn't yet joined the future district heating network, but there wasn't yet a vote on it.
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Scott
I love your videos! I just wanted to leave some friendly and well-intentioned feedback. The content is fantastic but the inflection of the narration always tends to go low and then high at the end of the sentences so it sounds like every sentence is a complaint or critique even when you're just stating factual information as in the first modern generation began in the US in the 1880's. It becomes a bit tiresome to the ear. That is all. Please keep producing great content. Thanks!
reply
I love your videos! I just wanted to leave some friendly and well-intentioned feedback. The content is fantastic but the inflection of the narration always tends to go low and then high at the end of the sentences so it sounds like every sentence is a complaint or critique even when you're just stating factual information as in the first modern generation began in the US in the 1880's. It becomes a bit tiresome to the ear. That is all. Please keep producing great content. Thanks!
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Xandalf
I visited the waste incineration plant in Bern, Switzerland and they have an extensive municipal heating system, primarily for institutions like the hospital or industries. they also have an additional gas turbine and wood power plant to switch on in winter if necessary.
The main issue is to extend the pipe network in already built up enviromments but it can be done gradually and is very promising to reduce energy use and emissions.
reply
I visited the waste incineration plant in Bern, Switzerland and they have an extensive municipal heating system, primarily for institutions like the hospital or industries. they also have an additional gas turbine and wood power plant to switch on in winter if necessary.
The main issue is to extend the pipe network in already built up enviromments but it can be done gradually and is very promising to reduce energy use and emissions.
reply
Anthony
I don't really understand why traditional powerplants have significant waste heat? Why is the water carrying the waste heat not just reused in the boiler? Or if its in steam, why is the steam not collected and condense to the same effect? I guess there must be some reason if cogeneration is such a perennial technology, but it seems a lot easier than piping that hot water around the city and back.
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I don't really understand why traditional powerplants have significant waste heat? Why is the water carrying the waste heat not just reused in the boiler? Or if its in steam, why is the steam not collected and condense to the same effect? I guess there must be some reason if cogeneration is such a perennial technology, but it seems a lot easier than piping that hot water around the city and back.
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Mathias
What is really neat with district heating is that it is just warm water running through pipes, so you always change HOW you boil the water if another method becomes more efficient. In Denmark there are trying to install a system in which if it gets very windy and the electical price drops to next to nothing, then they switch to electrical district heating instead of burning stuff.
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What is really neat with district heating is that it is just warm water running through pipes, so you always change HOW you boil the water if another method becomes more efficient. In Denmark there are trying to install a system in which if it gets very windy and the electical price drops to next to nothing, then they switch to electrical district heating instead of burning stuff.
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Miko aj
You can also produce biogas in a water treatment facility and then burn this gas for district heating system thus reduce the methane emissions from the water treatment process and have a renewable fuel for dustrict heating. This has proven to work in places like Denmark or Sweden. In my hometown (Tychy, Poland) we also have something like this but just for a part of the city.
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You can also produce biogas in a water treatment facility and then burn this gas for district heating system thus reduce the methane emissions from the water treatment process and have a renewable fuel for dustrict heating. This has proven to work in places like Denmark or Sweden. In my hometown (Tychy, Poland) we also have something like this but just for a part of the city.
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Tom
In Finland 95%+ off all buildings are attached to a central heating network. The heat is a by-product of electricity production/heavy industry and burning waste. Using central heating pumps eg. the Centre of Helsinki (700 000 people) get central AC as well. Heating in Finland is almost for free - but once again the Infrastructure is not but that has been built the past 70 years.
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In Finland 95%+ off all buildings are attached to a central heating network. The heat is a by-product of electricity production/heavy industry and burning waste. Using central heating pumps eg. the Centre of Helsinki (700 000 people) get central AC as well. Heating in Finland is almost for free - but once again the Infrastructure is not but that has been built the past 70 years.
reply
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