How Does It Work? Honda's 2 Motor Hybrid System Explained
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Date: 2020-03-04
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Comments and reviews: 10
Jesse
I own a 2018 Clarity, and I can say that when the little gear isn't present on screen while on the highway (meaning the engine is producing electricity to then power the motor, not driving the wheels directly, the fuel economy is definitely decreased. The range where the engine can directly power the wheels is from about 45-75mph. That is definitely the sweet spot for best fuel economy. Also, now knowing the smaller motor generates power from the engine makes sense. When using the car in cold winter without a battery charge, the engine has to warm up to temperature before being used to drive the car in any manner (parallel or serial hybrid. But once the engine gets to temperature it ROARS SO LOUD for about 30 seconds no matter the speed you're driving in order to recharge the battery back to 10% (using the heat and then driving for about three minutes before the engine gets up to temperature depletes the hybrid battery WAY below the 10% threshold level I assume. Because it sounds like the Clarity puts the engine at full power to recharge the hybrid battery at all costs to maintain a healthy battery and keep it from reaching too low. I would say that is the Charity's downfall in my opinion, the loud and harshness of the engine after needing to charge battery or drive vehicle in cold climate after start up. I wish it was like the Volt and could start the engine while pre heating the car with no battery charge so it wouldn't then operate at 6, 000 rpm it sounds once it gets to temperature on the road. It is also an inconvenience to not be able to preheat or precool the cabin unless plugged in to a 240v charger or have a battery charge. Don't see why the Clarity can't start engine and use its generated electricity to cycle on and off like normal to then heat/cool the cabin.
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I own a 2018 Clarity, and I can say that when the little gear isn't present on screen while on the highway (meaning the engine is producing electricity to then power the motor, not driving the wheels directly, the fuel economy is definitely decreased. The range where the engine can directly power the wheels is from about 45-75mph. That is definitely the sweet spot for best fuel economy. Also, now knowing the smaller motor generates power from the engine makes sense. When using the car in cold winter without a battery charge, the engine has to warm up to temperature before being used to drive the car in any manner (parallel or serial hybrid. But once the engine gets to temperature it ROARS SO LOUD for about 30 seconds no matter the speed you're driving in order to recharge the battery back to 10% (using the heat and then driving for about three minutes before the engine gets up to temperature depletes the hybrid battery WAY below the 10% threshold level I assume. Because it sounds like the Clarity puts the engine at full power to recharge the hybrid battery at all costs to maintain a healthy battery and keep it from reaching too low. I would say that is the Charity's downfall in my opinion, the loud and harshness of the engine after needing to charge battery or drive vehicle in cold climate after start up. I wish it was like the Volt and could start the engine while pre heating the car with no battery charge so it wouldn't then operate at 6, 000 rpm it sounds once it gets to temperature on the road. It is also an inconvenience to not be able to preheat or precool the cabin unless plugged in to a 240v charger or have a battery charge. Don't see why the Clarity can't start engine and use its generated electricity to cycle on and off like normal to then heat/cool the cabin.
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Jeff
The official name of the Honda system is Intelligent multi-Mode Drive, or iMMD. Both Toyota and Honda say they have an eCVT, but it means different things. Toyotas is electronically controlled, meaning how the power split is monitored. Hondas is electrically coupled, meaning there (usually) is no mechanical connection between engine and wheels; that is, a serial hybrid. At about 7: 20, you say the battery is taken out of the equation at highway speeds. This is not true. While cruising at 55 mph, and with the clutch engaged, about 30% to 50% of the engines power is going to the battery (its generating 34 hp, and needs only 15 to 20 to cruise. When about a quarter of the batterys capacity is saved this way (where it fits in the range changes with ECON, NORMAL, and SPORT modes, the car goes into EV mode to use that energy. I dont fully understand how the 212 peak horsepower is achieved, but your explanation cant be right. It cant be the engines peak HP at 100 mph+ added to the motors 181 HP, because this would give different combined totals for the Accord/CR-V and Clarity. The 181 HP limit is a software limit, not a hardware limit. A sustained electrical power above that could damage the coils, so it is limited. I have seen speculation that this limit could be exceeded for short periods, which is why all three that use the larger motor have the same combined power. It's combined because the battery can't provide it alone. And the Accord is faster than the Camry in 0-60 mph by between 0. 4 to 0. 8 seconds, depending on whose test you read, Because the Camry wont get anywhere near its maximum HP rpm in that range, either.
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The official name of the Honda system is Intelligent multi-Mode Drive, or iMMD. Both Toyota and Honda say they have an eCVT, but it means different things. Toyotas is electronically controlled, meaning how the power split is monitored. Hondas is electrically coupled, meaning there (usually) is no mechanical connection between engine and wheels; that is, a serial hybrid. At about 7: 20, you say the battery is taken out of the equation at highway speeds. This is not true. While cruising at 55 mph, and with the clutch engaged, about 30% to 50% of the engines power is going to the battery (its generating 34 hp, and needs only 15 to 20 to cruise. When about a quarter of the batterys capacity is saved this way (where it fits in the range changes with ECON, NORMAL, and SPORT modes, the car goes into EV mode to use that energy. I dont fully understand how the 212 peak horsepower is achieved, but your explanation cant be right. It cant be the engines peak HP at 100 mph+ added to the motors 181 HP, because this would give different combined totals for the Accord/CR-V and Clarity. The 181 HP limit is a software limit, not a hardware limit. A sustained electrical power above that could damage the coils, so it is limited. I have seen speculation that this limit could be exceeded for short periods, which is why all three that use the larger motor have the same combined power. It's combined because the battery can't provide it alone. And the Accord is faster than the Camry in 0-60 mph by between 0. 4 to 0. 8 seconds, depending on whose test you read, Because the Camry wont get anywhere near its maximum HP rpm in that range, either.
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John
The Clarity PHEV and Accord Hybrid both have 181-hp motors (although not the same motors--they have different magnets, so how can Honda claim the same total 212 hp for the Clarity PHEV and the Accord Hybrid, despite the Accord's more powerful engine? Also, the Clarity PHEV is limited electronically to 100 mph, not the 110 mph that Alex says would be required to produce 212 hp, so how can Honda claim 212 hp for that car? I don't know how fast Honda allows the Accord Hybrid to go, so maybe the total horsepower explanation works for that car. Alex, please explain why the Honda Clarity PHEV starts up its engine in response to regen braking if the battery is already fully charged. How can that technique use up the excess electricity generated by the traction motor as it tries to slow the car down? Why doesn't the Clarity PHEV act like the Accord Hybrid, which expends excess electricity by powering the starter motor/generator to spin a dormant (no fuel injected) engine?
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The Clarity PHEV and Accord Hybrid both have 181-hp motors (although not the same motors--they have different magnets, so how can Honda claim the same total 212 hp for the Clarity PHEV and the Accord Hybrid, despite the Accord's more powerful engine? Also, the Clarity PHEV is limited electronically to 100 mph, not the 110 mph that Alex says would be required to produce 212 hp, so how can Honda claim 212 hp for that car? I don't know how fast Honda allows the Accord Hybrid to go, so maybe the total horsepower explanation works for that car. Alex, please explain why the Honda Clarity PHEV starts up its engine in response to regen braking if the battery is already fully charged. How can that technique use up the excess electricity generated by the traction motor as it tries to slow the car down? Why doesn't the Clarity PHEV act like the Accord Hybrid, which expends excess electricity by powering the starter motor/generator to spin a dormant (no fuel injected) engine?
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Jim
Thanks for pointing out what I perceive to be a fundamental weakness of many/most hybrid vehicles, that being their [lack of] performance above 65 - 70 mph. My former 2016 Sonata hybrid was gangbusters up to about 65 mph; delivering 45+ mpg. At about 70 or so, it would still get in the low 40s, but over 70, it lacked any gumption whatsoever and fuel efficiency plummeted to the low 30s. Moreover, the engine was much more vocal, making a less-than-pleasant driving experience.
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Thanks for pointing out what I perceive to be a fundamental weakness of many/most hybrid vehicles, that being their [lack of] performance above 65 - 70 mph. My former 2016 Sonata hybrid was gangbusters up to about 65 mph; delivering 45+ mpg. At about 70 or so, it would still get in the low 40s, but over 70, it lacked any gumption whatsoever and fuel efficiency plummeted to the low 30s. Moreover, the engine was much more vocal, making a less-than-pleasant driving experience.
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Guest
Thx for the detailed explanation. It was very insightful. But may I suggest, classifying the different makes of Hybrids, as a Serial or Parallel Hybrid, to show how they are related to each other, would have been useful. For example the Parallel Hybrid Prius has little in common, with the different versions of the Volt, that are primarily Serial Hybrids. Even if they use the same types of parts such as tires, brakes or planetary gearing.
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Thx for the detailed explanation. It was very insightful. But may I suggest, classifying the different makes of Hybrids, as a Serial or Parallel Hybrid, to show how they are related to each other, would have been useful. For example the Parallel Hybrid Prius has little in common, with the different versions of the Volt, that are primarily Serial Hybrids. Even if they use the same types of parts such as tires, brakes or planetary gearing.
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Ca
Wow. That was confusing (I know little about cars. What I need to know is how does the CRV hybrid compare to the RAV4 hybrid? Which is better and why? I went to test drive a RAV4 today and the sales rep simply said that Honda uses an old hybrid system model that doesn't even compare to the RAV4 hybrid superior system. I didn't have enough knowledge to ask better questions. So I'm hoping you can help lil'ol me out. #Overwhelmed
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Wow. That was confusing (I know little about cars. What I need to know is how does the CRV hybrid compare to the RAV4 hybrid? Which is better and why? I went to test drive a RAV4 today and the sales rep simply said that Honda uses an old hybrid system model that doesn't even compare to the RAV4 hybrid superior system. I didn't have enough knowledge to ask better questions. So I'm hoping you can help lil'ol me out. #Overwhelmed
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Pmo
Itd also be interesting to see the sustained hp and torque ratings on these electric motors. Perhaps one of the advantages of a parallel P2 hybrid setup is that the gas engine + transmission is capable of propelling the vehicle without electric motor assistance, which reduces the thermal load on those parts. Might be why these layouts can tow significantly more.
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Itd also be interesting to see the sustained hp and torque ratings on these electric motors. Perhaps one of the advantages of a parallel P2 hybrid setup is that the gas engine + transmission is capable of propelling the vehicle without electric motor assistance, which reduces the thermal load on those parts. Might be why these layouts can tow significantly more.
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Andrew
I see a definite advantage of Honda's hybrid system over Honda's regular 1. 5L turbo engine: The 2. 0L Atkinson cycle engine in the hybrid has port fuel injection and no turbo. This engine should last a long time and not have the problems that Honda's direct injection high compression turbos have seen (namely, fuel leaking into the crankcase's oil sump.
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I see a definite advantage of Honda's hybrid system over Honda's regular 1. 5L turbo engine: The 2. 0L Atkinson cycle engine in the hybrid has port fuel injection and no turbo. This engine should last a long time and not have the problems that Honda's direct injection high compression turbos have seen (namely, fuel leaking into the crankcase's oil sump.
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Waldemar
Why is CR-V more expensive than competition? Is there a mechanical reason why? At least on my (Japanese) market, it is extra 10% for all CR-V trims and Honda offers less features (still no heated steering wheel on most Japanese models. This hybrid would make sense for me as I want good AWD and my cruising speed on the motorway is max 68 mph.
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Why is CR-V more expensive than competition? Is there a mechanical reason why? At least on my (Japanese) market, it is extra 10% for all CR-V trims and Honda offers less features (still no heated steering wheel on most Japanese models. This hybrid would make sense for me as I want good AWD and my cruising speed on the motorway is max 68 mph.
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Pikminiman
I definitely appreciate the performance you get with Honda's hybrid system, and I love that it's so easily transferrable to all-electric cars. However, I drive most of my miles at 75-80 MPH, so the lackluster high-speed efficiency just doesn't cut it for me. Still, I bet this system will be extremely robust and reliable in the long-term.
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I definitely appreciate the performance you get with Honda's hybrid system, and I love that it's so easily transferrable to all-electric cars. However, I drive most of my miles at 75-80 MPH, so the lackluster high-speed efficiency just doesn't cut it for me. Still, I bet this system will be extremely robust and reliable in the long-term.
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