Ford Smart Charge System Alternator Not Charging
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Date: 2020-08-05
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Comments and reviews: 10
YouSpamTard
I just found out and it seems to be that on some European cars if you replace the battery you have to do a charging system reset using a scanner or it will kill the new battery. I think I read about this on identifix about a Volkswagen if I remember correctly. I then asked a reputable BMW shop owner if it if he knew anything about it and he said yes. He said he installed a new battery in a BMW and it got killed in about 6 months because he didn't reset the charging system. It sounds just crazy to me. It seems if the charging system is at a current state of hi charge because of a weak old battery it will stay in that state and over charge the new battery. I'm sure its more complicated than I understand.
Here is an charging system description of operation for a 2005 Ford Mustang 4. 0: The PCM-controlled charging system provides many additional benefits over the current integral generator regulator system. The first benefit is improved battery life. In an integral generator regulator system, the regulator set point is established by a temperature sensor in the regulator which estimates battery temperature. In a PCM-controlled charging system, the regulator voltage set point is determined by the PCM and communicated to the regulator through the generator regulator control (GENRC) circuit. The PCM uses an algorithm to estimate battery temperature. Improving battery temperature estimates will reduce battery damage caused by over- and undercharging.
The second benefit is improved engine performance. Whenever the PCM senses a wide-open throttle (WOT) condition, the PCM will momentarily lower the regulator voltage set point. This reduces the torque load of the generator on the engine and improves acceleration. The PCM has a calibratable time limit on this reduced voltage feature. This is to prevent the generator output from being cut back for an extended WOT period, which could cause battery discharge.
The third benefit is improved idle stability. In response to the PCM's GENRC signal, the regulator uses a generator load input (GENLI) signal to provide feedback to the PCM. The GENLI signal provides the PCM with charging system information. Specifically, it lets the PCM know when the charging system receives a transient electrical load which would normally affect idle stability. Because the PCM can anticipate additional loads, actions can be taken to minimize idle sag. The PCM can choose to either reduce the regulator set point or increase engine idle speed, both of which are calibratable features. In order to establish whether the regulator is accurately maintaining the desired voltage set point, the regulator uses a charging system voltage line to sense battery voltage.
The fourth benefit is reduced cranking efforts. The PCM can reduce the mechanical load on the starter by initially commanding a low voltage set point. This may improve start times.
If the PCM detects a charging system error, it will broadcast a low voltage telltale (ON) network communication message which tells the cluster to illuminate the charge indicator. The charge indicator will be illuminated if the PCM fails to see a signal on the GENLI circuit for a time period greater than 500 milliseconds. This telltale command will also be used to indicate over-voltage conditions detected by the PCM-controlled generator.
Each time the ignition switch is cycled to the run position, the instrument cluster will initiate a bulb check by illuminating the charge indicator. It is the PCM's responsibility to issue a low voltage telltale (OFF) command if the charging system is functioning properly. This message should be sent during the network initialization in the voluntary phase (250 milliseconds to 450 milliseconds after the ignition switch is cycled to the run position. If a low voltage telltale (OFF) network communication message is not received, the instrument cluster will continue to illuminate the charge indicator indefinitely.
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I just found out and it seems to be that on some European cars if you replace the battery you have to do a charging system reset using a scanner or it will kill the new battery. I think I read about this on identifix about a Volkswagen if I remember correctly. I then asked a reputable BMW shop owner if it if he knew anything about it and he said yes. He said he installed a new battery in a BMW and it got killed in about 6 months because he didn't reset the charging system. It sounds just crazy to me. It seems if the charging system is at a current state of hi charge because of a weak old battery it will stay in that state and over charge the new battery. I'm sure its more complicated than I understand.
Here is an charging system description of operation for a 2005 Ford Mustang 4. 0: The PCM-controlled charging system provides many additional benefits over the current integral generator regulator system. The first benefit is improved battery life. In an integral generator regulator system, the regulator set point is established by a temperature sensor in the regulator which estimates battery temperature. In a PCM-controlled charging system, the regulator voltage set point is determined by the PCM and communicated to the regulator through the generator regulator control (GENRC) circuit. The PCM uses an algorithm to estimate battery temperature. Improving battery temperature estimates will reduce battery damage caused by over- and undercharging.
The second benefit is improved engine performance. Whenever the PCM senses a wide-open throttle (WOT) condition, the PCM will momentarily lower the regulator voltage set point. This reduces the torque load of the generator on the engine and improves acceleration. The PCM has a calibratable time limit on this reduced voltage feature. This is to prevent the generator output from being cut back for an extended WOT period, which could cause battery discharge.
The third benefit is improved idle stability. In response to the PCM's GENRC signal, the regulator uses a generator load input (GENLI) signal to provide feedback to the PCM. The GENLI signal provides the PCM with charging system information. Specifically, it lets the PCM know when the charging system receives a transient electrical load which would normally affect idle stability. Because the PCM can anticipate additional loads, actions can be taken to minimize idle sag. The PCM can choose to either reduce the regulator set point or increase engine idle speed, both of which are calibratable features. In order to establish whether the regulator is accurately maintaining the desired voltage set point, the regulator uses a charging system voltage line to sense battery voltage.
The fourth benefit is reduced cranking efforts. The PCM can reduce the mechanical load on the starter by initially commanding a low voltage set point. This may improve start times.
If the PCM detects a charging system error, it will broadcast a low voltage telltale (ON) network communication message which tells the cluster to illuminate the charge indicator. The charge indicator will be illuminated if the PCM fails to see a signal on the GENLI circuit for a time period greater than 500 milliseconds. This telltale command will also be used to indicate over-voltage conditions detected by the PCM-controlled generator.
Each time the ignition switch is cycled to the run position, the instrument cluster will initiate a bulb check by illuminating the charge indicator. It is the PCM's responsibility to issue a low voltage telltale (OFF) command if the charging system is functioning properly. This message should be sent during the network initialization in the voluntary phase (250 milliseconds to 450 milliseconds after the ignition switch is cycled to the run position. If a low voltage telltale (OFF) network communication message is not received, the instrument cluster will continue to illuminate the charge indicator indefinitely.
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Peter
It is not that difficult to understand. Easy. On initial startup, the GEN COMM is used for sending command to the regulator, to put field voltage into the alternator, to start charging. As soon as it generates voltage, it does not need that command so you see only periodic waveform for the regulator. The gen MON is primarily used for ECU to rise RPM, and ly tell regulator to increase field voltage. And yes, it is not instant. As far as I remember there is specific MAP in ecu just for this. As you started the engine with alternator unplugged, there was no field voltage in the alternator until you raised RPM and the alternator got self-exited and started charging. All it needed was a new regulator.
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It is not that difficult to understand. Easy. On initial startup, the GEN COMM is used for sending command to the regulator, to put field voltage into the alternator, to start charging. As soon as it generates voltage, it does not need that command so you see only periodic waveform for the regulator. The gen MON is primarily used for ECU to rise RPM, and ly tell regulator to increase field voltage. And yes, it is not instant. As far as I remember there is specific MAP in ecu just for this. As you started the engine with alternator unplugged, there was no field voltage in the alternator until you raised RPM and the alternator got self-exited and started charging. All it needed was a new regulator.
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Napsterbater
Im betting it is not the fact its in a high charge state, I betting its because the desired voltage is steady and the PCM only transmits every 5sec OR when an adjustment is needed which ever is first. At start it wanted that set desired voltage due to low battery, but once running and charged a bit it's constantly changing its desired voltage for efficiency reasons, thus it is constantly fine tuning its instructions to the Alt with of course feedback from the Alt feeding into calculations to come up with the instructions, and again thus the constant talking vs every 5 sec. At Least that is my theory.
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Im betting it is not the fact its in a high charge state, I betting its because the desired voltage is steady and the PCM only transmits every 5sec OR when an adjustment is needed which ever is first. At start it wanted that set desired voltage due to low battery, but once running and charged a bit it's constantly changing its desired voltage for efficiency reasons, thus it is constantly fine tuning its instructions to the Alt with of course feedback from the Alt feeding into calculations to come up with the instructions, and again thus the constant talking vs every 5 sec. At Least that is my theory.
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Matthew
Hey buddy I like the way you think! Yes I understand your dilemma. I'm working on my girlfriends 2006 ford taurus. The dam thing has (wrongfully) thrown the check charging system warning light for the last year. Well all a sudden it stops doing it. Great right? Nope the dam altenator is now bad. Bad altenator and now no code? So I'm thinkin it's not a bad altenator. I'm thinkin bad ECM PCM or wire. But after watching this I'm thinking bad altenator. So I'm going to put a new one on. I will let you know the outcome. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
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Hey buddy I like the way you think! Yes I understand your dilemma. I'm working on my girlfriends 2006 ford taurus. The dam thing has (wrongfully) thrown the check charging system warning light for the last year. Well all a sudden it stops doing it. Great right? Nope the dam altenator is now bad. Bad altenator and now no code? So I'm thinkin it's not a bad altenator. I'm thinkin bad ECM PCM or wire. But after watching this I'm thinking bad altenator. So I'm going to put a new one on. I will let you know the outcome. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
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Rod
Whether or not its relevant to the job you are doing, Its relevant to the job i am doing, and i appreciate that greatly. I have one that charges and quits charging, Alternator replaced, battery replaced. So this vid greatly helps in my impending diagnosis.
EDIT: just for clarification, i did not replace either, the customer made assumptions and did this before contacting me. I AM NOT a parts changer. I dont have a fancy a pico, (yes i am jealous, but not in a malevolent way) however my Vantage Pro or my Autel MP408 will do nicely.
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Whether or not its relevant to the job you are doing, Its relevant to the job i am doing, and i appreciate that greatly. I have one that charges and quits charging, Alternator replaced, battery replaced. So this vid greatly helps in my impending diagnosis.
EDIT: just for clarification, i did not replace either, the customer made assumptions and did this before contacting me. I AM NOT a parts changer. I dont have a fancy a pico, (yes i am jealous, but not in a malevolent way) however my Vantage Pro or my Autel MP408 will do nicely.
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VIPLegal
So I guess I got confused with your conclusion it was the alternator after you bypassed pcm? I thought once you revved it the alternator started working just fine and there after? Having the same issue with 06 Ford Five Hundred. Same smart bs system but i bypassed my pcm as advised and turned engine on and low and behold no charging still. I didnt bother revving it. I yanked that sob out because I just replaced it about a month ago with a duralast reman and you bet your ass I was gonna walk that up there and give them an earful.
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So I guess I got confused with your conclusion it was the alternator after you bypassed pcm? I thought once you revved it the alternator started working just fine and there after? Having the same issue with 06 Ford Five Hundred. Same smart bs system but i bypassed my pcm as advised and turned engine on and low and behold no charging still. I didnt bother revving it. I yanked that sob out because I just replaced it about a month ago with a duralast reman and you bet your ass I was gonna walk that up there and give them an earful.
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Michael
I had a multipart charging system issue. It started off as a bad alternator. Then got another bad alternator from the parts store (Both confirmed bad by their testing. Third alternator also seemed bad had them but they said they tested it good before it came over. Turns out that a bad tensioner was causing it not to charge with the known good alternator. Tensioner felt pretty good when I started but when I went to take the belt off the last time it stuck back quite obviously.
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I had a multipart charging system issue. It started off as a bad alternator. Then got another bad alternator from the parts store (Both confirmed bad by their testing. Third alternator also seemed bad had them but they said they tested it good before it came over. Turns out that a bad tensioner was causing it not to charge with the known good alternator. Tensioner felt pretty good when I started but when I went to take the belt off the last time it stuck back quite obviously.
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matthew
very informative video, put a new alternator on today and tested it at 14. 1 V, post test drive it dipped to 13. 6, and then 13v after letting it idle for a bit. unplugged the coms from the alternator and its charging at 14. 1-14. 2, battery light has also popped up. bit of a loss right now, either the alternator regulator has crapped out, or the PCM system is restricting charge not really sure.
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very informative video, put a new alternator on today and tested it at 14. 1 V, post test drive it dipped to 13. 6, and then 13v after letting it idle for a bit. unplugged the coms from the alternator and its charging at 14. 1-14. 2, battery light has also popped up. bit of a loss right now, either the alternator regulator has crapped out, or the PCM system is restricting charge not really sure.
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Hugo
Do you have any tips for troubleshooting a code P065B (Generator Control Circuit Range/Performance? The truck starts fine and the battery light will be on for about 30 seconds then the light goes off and the truck works fine for the rest of the day. This only happens when the truck is off for longer then a couple hours. Thanks.
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Do you have any tips for troubleshooting a code P065B (Generator Control Circuit Range/Performance? The truck starts fine and the battery light will be on for about 30 seconds then the light goes off and the truck works fine for the rest of the day. This only happens when the truck is off for longer then a couple hours. Thanks.
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StagArmslower
I always thought that weaker battery need that initial current from the alternator to start the engine and i'm wondering if there is any data indicating that smart charging system extends the life of battery or alternator; probably not because either one fails regularly
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I always thought that weaker battery need that initial current from the alternator to start the engine and i'm wondering if there is any data indicating that smart charging system extends the life of battery or alternator; probably not because either one fails regularly
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