Jeep WJ: The Alignment
video description
Date: 2020-08-05
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 10
Darryn
Eric, don't know when you are going to finish the Jeep WJ but I just watched your series. Your problem is the wheel spacers. For the best performance you wan't the centerline of the wheel to be as close to the centerline of the ball joints as possible, the further you get away from that the worse the steering and especially bump steer are going to get. This is widely known in the off road community. I'm very surprised Iron Rock Off Road did not explain this to you. No doubt those wheel spacers are your problem and eliminating those and going with a more positive offset wheel would just cause the same problem. In fact, going with a more negative offset rim is better because it will get your aforementioned centerlines closer together. That said, I realize you need clearance, so, you are going to have to modify your axles to accomodate for that but then that rig will ride like a dream on and off road. You have probably figured all this out by now but just my 2 cents. Your pitman arm and drag link geometry may be a contributor as well. I used to race motocross then quads professionally, that's where we learned these geometrical truths for 4 wheel vehicles, especially off road setups. Almost as educational in terms of suspension geometry are off road RC cars, I have several and these same principles hold true when setting up these little cars. Stray from those principles and you can see the difference night and day. However, it's just a little cheaper to play with all these setting on an RC car, Ha.
Watch allot of your vids, love it! Good luck with the Jeep and let us know where you're at with it. Warm weather is about upon us dude, so you better get that jeep ready to rock soon!
reply
Eric, don't know when you are going to finish the Jeep WJ but I just watched your series. Your problem is the wheel spacers. For the best performance you wan't the centerline of the wheel to be as close to the centerline of the ball joints as possible, the further you get away from that the worse the steering and especially bump steer are going to get. This is widely known in the off road community. I'm very surprised Iron Rock Off Road did not explain this to you. No doubt those wheel spacers are your problem and eliminating those and going with a more positive offset wheel would just cause the same problem. In fact, going with a more negative offset rim is better because it will get your aforementioned centerlines closer together. That said, I realize you need clearance, so, you are going to have to modify your axles to accomodate for that but then that rig will ride like a dream on and off road. You have probably figured all this out by now but just my 2 cents. Your pitman arm and drag link geometry may be a contributor as well. I used to race motocross then quads professionally, that's where we learned these geometrical truths for 4 wheel vehicles, especially off road setups. Almost as educational in terms of suspension geometry are off road RC cars, I have several and these same principles hold true when setting up these little cars. Stray from those principles and you can see the difference night and day. However, it's just a little cheaper to play with all these setting on an RC car, Ha.
Watch allot of your vids, love it! Good luck with the Jeep and let us know where you're at with it. Warm weather is about upon us dude, so you better get that jeep ready to rock soon!
reply
Garth
Interesting. I've always thought the tow needs to be slightly In as you had set it up however, I have also heard of folks setting it up with a slight tow-out for suspension conversions. I'm sure it's a debate item. Could be the front axle u-joints simply need some turn time on them. Maybe drive it in 4x4 for awhile then see (is this quadratrac full time. I have also heard of folks raising up the drag link mount on the right side of the housing to get it more level vs. angled as well as the track bar mounts. You might check out DynaTrac dot com as they have several upgrades for Dana 44's on the JK's, not sure if they might help you with a Dana 30 but it won't hurt to inquire. Keep in mind, the higher you raise the lift the more the stresses, angles etc. affect maneuverability, good steering/tracking. Many who have to use their SUV on the road choose to limit their lift projects to 3 just to maintain streetability. Looking good. I though your idea on the factory swingarm brackets was a good idea as it not only looked cleaner but maintained all of the spot welds to the unibody structure. Doing so also maintains the crush engineering to keep the safety levels in check as well as the overall original design strength. Altering any parts of spot welds and unibody structures will have an effect in the safety design of any unibody vehicle and some changes actually add dangerous outcomes. Thanks for the video.
reply
Interesting. I've always thought the tow needs to be slightly In as you had set it up however, I have also heard of folks setting it up with a slight tow-out for suspension conversions. I'm sure it's a debate item. Could be the front axle u-joints simply need some turn time on them. Maybe drive it in 4x4 for awhile then see (is this quadratrac full time. I have also heard of folks raising up the drag link mount on the right side of the housing to get it more level vs. angled as well as the track bar mounts. You might check out DynaTrac dot com as they have several upgrades for Dana 44's on the JK's, not sure if they might help you with a Dana 30 but it won't hurt to inquire. Keep in mind, the higher you raise the lift the more the stresses, angles etc. affect maneuverability, good steering/tracking. Many who have to use their SUV on the road choose to limit their lift projects to 3 just to maintain streetability. Looking good. I though your idea on the factory swingarm brackets was a good idea as it not only looked cleaner but maintained all of the spot welds to the unibody structure. Doing so also maintains the crush engineering to keep the safety levels in check as well as the overall original design strength. Altering any parts of spot welds and unibody structures will have an effect in the safety design of any unibody vehicle and some changes actually add dangerous outcomes. Thanks for the video.
reply
GNX157
If i had to guess, I'd say it's the new tires. Put the originals back in and take for a ride. I had a car with the exact same wandering/pulling issues and chased it a while, thinking well it couldn't be these brand new tires. I had the frame checked and straightened, a new steering box (old one had a twisted steering shaft, and various front end parts. Nothing fixed it so it was a white knuckler to drive. Finally wore out those tires and put new BF Goodrich TA radials on it like my other car had and low and behold, the car drove great. Could not believe it but there it was, night and day. Near as I could tell, those other tires had a very stiff sidewall whereas the Goodrich did not.
reply
If i had to guess, I'd say it's the new tires. Put the originals back in and take for a ride. I had a car with the exact same wandering/pulling issues and chased it a while, thinking well it couldn't be these brand new tires. I had the frame checked and straightened, a new steering box (old one had a twisted steering shaft, and various front end parts. Nothing fixed it so it was a white knuckler to drive. Finally wore out those tires and put new BF Goodrich TA radials on it like my other car had and low and behold, the car drove great. Could not believe it but there it was, night and day. Near as I could tell, those other tires had a very stiff sidewall whereas the Goodrich did not.
reply
Charles
Believe me that Jeep will never drive down the road clean again. Been a Jeep guy for yr's, it's either you make a nice Street Ride or you go all out for an off road ride. Have many friends that have done just what you are doing only to find out they made a 60 mile an hour ride. You just created a life time worth of Parts Replacement. In my opinion the Jeep was in to good of shape to turn into an Off Road er. The Transfer Case should be changed to a 231 case with just part time 4 wheel drive for off road. That Jeep will for sure track to whatever slant is in the Road.
reply
Believe me that Jeep will never drive down the road clean again. Been a Jeep guy for yr's, it's either you make a nice Street Ride or you go all out for an off road ride. Have many friends that have done just what you are doing only to find out they made a 60 mile an hour ride. You just created a life time worth of Parts Replacement. In my opinion the Jeep was in to good of shape to turn into an Off Road er. The Transfer Case should be changed to a 231 case with just part time 4 wheel drive for off road. That Jeep will for sure track to whatever slant is in the Road.
reply
first
I know this is an old video but I wonder if adjusting the rear toe inadvertently changed the rear caster making it drive unstable. As far as I know the alignment rack won't give you an option to measure rear caster. I wonder if setting the rear end back to factory specs and using shims to bring in toe would fix the issue with stability, but the problem with that is you have to deal with clearance issues all over again. That's a tricky one maybe you can find some used tires you can experiment with instead of buying new tires all over again
reply
I know this is an old video but I wonder if adjusting the rear toe inadvertently changed the rear caster making it drive unstable. As far as I know the alignment rack won't give you an option to measure rear caster. I wonder if setting the rear end back to factory specs and using shims to bring in toe would fix the issue with stability, but the problem with that is you have to deal with clearance issues all over again. That's a tricky one maybe you can find some used tires you can experiment with instead of buying new tires all over again
reply
Jay
I only have a 2 - 2. 5 lift on my ZJ, after rebuilding the front driveshaft (axle rzeppa, transfer case double cardan, it had a vibration at high speed. I ended up dialing all caster out of the stock lower control arms which enabled me to get about 75 mph out of the vehicle which is fast enough for me. Have not seen any updates on this vehicle recently, you may not like them but, maybe you could try the offset upper ball-joints. I'll take straight front axles ANY day over IFS, hope to see more of your WJ.
reply
I only have a 2 - 2. 5 lift on my ZJ, after rebuilding the front driveshaft (axle rzeppa, transfer case double cardan, it had a vibration at high speed. I ended up dialing all caster out of the stock lower control arms which enabled me to get about 75 mph out of the vehicle which is fast enough for me. Have not seen any updates on this vehicle recently, you may not like them but, maybe you could try the offset upper ball-joints. I'll take straight front axles ANY day over IFS, hope to see more of your WJ.
reply
BuBBz
Had this problem, replaced the rear lower control arms and the Y joint with upgraded bushings and joint. Im telling you its not alignment its those arms and joint. Im riding on a 4inch RC lift on my 04 WJ AWD all time. No shaft vibration and i dont get the fish tailing feeling. No death wobble etc. Only thing i have is a little play in the steering, im guessing a new or tightened steering box would solve that.
reply
Had this problem, replaced the rear lower control arms and the Y joint with upgraded bushings and joint. Im telling you its not alignment its those arms and joint. Im riding on a 4inch RC lift on my 04 WJ AWD all time. No shaft vibration and i dont get the fish tailing feeling. No death wobble etc. Only thing i have is a little play in the steering, im guessing a new or tightened steering box would solve that.
reply
Peter
He took a perfectly good vehicle and turned it into a nightmare in my opinion, from what I gathered he wanted something for family use, as I was watching I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I'm sure some kid would buy it, they wouldn't know the way it's supposed to be, they'll just like the fact that's it's different, but all the time and money spent will never be recouped.
reply
He took a perfectly good vehicle and turned it into a nightmare in my opinion, from what I gathered he wanted something for family use, as I was watching I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I'm sure some kid would buy it, they wouldn't know the way it's supposed to be, they'll just like the fact that's it's different, but all the time and money spent will never be recouped.
reply
Grey
Get used to wild driving. Thats the new norm now. Wait till you hit a chuck hole with the right front tire at 50 MPH and get the death wobble. Better than six flags for your heart rate. I have one lifted 3. Ruined the vehicle for highway driving. White knuckles all the time.
reply
Get used to wild driving. Thats the new norm now. Wait till you hit a chuck hole with the right front tire at 50 MPH and get the death wobble. Better than six flags for your heart rate. I have one lifted 3. Ruined the vehicle for highway driving. White knuckles all the time.
reply
TheRocketbob22
bLESS YPUR HEART eRICAo. i HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT YOU WILL GET YOUR FUN jEEP TRACKING, rEMEMBER, IF WE CAN DO IT, SO CAN YOU iF MY SPELLING IS WONKY, IT; S CAUSE MY EYE SIGHT IS WANING. i WATCH sma FOR HOURS EVERDAY, BETTER THAN jOHN wAYNE MOVIES.
reply
bLESS YPUR HEART eRICAo. i HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT YOU WILL GET YOUR FUN jEEP TRACKING, rEMEMBER, IF WE CAN DO IT, SO CAN YOU iF MY SPELLING IS WONKY, IT; S CAUSE MY EYE SIGHT IS WANING. i WATCH sma FOR HOURS EVERDAY, BETTER THAN jOHN wAYNE MOVIES.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
