Heat Pump Guide, how to select, compare and efficiency rating hvac
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Date: 2023-11-17
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Comments and reviews: 25
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Thank you for your videos.
Lately, I have been looking at chiller offers from Sanden, Multiaqua, Daikin (Altherma 3, and Chiltrix among others.
They claim to produce heating, cooling, and hot water (except for Sanden which only produces heat and hot water) at very high levels of efficiency using air to water heat pumps.
I suspect they all use a reversing valve (except again for Sanden.
Some of them claim very high COP numbers. They, also, claim lower costs than GSHP.
When I compare long term ownership costs, I find that their costs are usually greater than air to air in spite of having higher COP numbers. In fact, I tend to get confused in attempting to decide among them.
Could you cover these types of heat pumps in more detail?
Could you, also, please provide an industry perspective of where trends in products (cooling, heating, and hot water) and future (not too far) consumer efficiency is going?
Finally, could you provide a single chart providing 10-year total cost of ownership for different technologies (for instance, air to water, air to air, etc.
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Thank you for your videos.
Lately, I have been looking at chiller offers from Sanden, Multiaqua, Daikin (Altherma 3, and Chiltrix among others.
They claim to produce heating, cooling, and hot water (except for Sanden which only produces heat and hot water) at very high levels of efficiency using air to water heat pumps.
I suspect they all use a reversing valve (except again for Sanden.
Some of them claim very high COP numbers. They, also, claim lower costs than GSHP.
When I compare long term ownership costs, I find that their costs are usually greater than air to air in spite of having higher COP numbers. In fact, I tend to get confused in attempting to decide among them.
Could you cover these types of heat pumps in more detail?
Could you, also, please provide an industry perspective of where trends in products (cooling, heating, and hot water) and future (not too far) consumer efficiency is going?
Finally, could you provide a single chart providing 10-year total cost of ownership for different technologies (for instance, air to water, air to air, etc.
reply
CostOfAutism
I live in a 2 story home, about 2K sq. ft. in the first floor and around 1K sq. ft (3 bedrooms) upstairs. I live in South Florida and only use the heating element in my AC just a few weeks a year, so I don't spend a lot on heating. I was thinking about getting a 5 zone Blueridge Mini-Split 21. 5 SEER Heat Pump. 1 in each of the bedrooms, 1 in the Family Room and one in the Kitchen downstairs. My office already has a Heat Pump I installed a few years back, since the AC didn't work very well in there. Most nights, just one of the bedrooms is in use, since our Autistic Son at 17, still insists on sleeping with us and most days are spent in the Kitchen and Family room. With this setup, my Dining room and Living Room (which we currently rarely use) wouldn't be cooled. I currently spend around $4-500 a month on my 12 SEER Air Conditioning system. . If I were to do a setup like this, leaving the existing system for the occasional usage of my unused rooms and mostly just running 1 or 2 zones at a time, would I save a lot on my AC bill?
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I live in a 2 story home, about 2K sq. ft. in the first floor and around 1K sq. ft (3 bedrooms) upstairs. I live in South Florida and only use the heating element in my AC just a few weeks a year, so I don't spend a lot on heating. I was thinking about getting a 5 zone Blueridge Mini-Split 21. 5 SEER Heat Pump. 1 in each of the bedrooms, 1 in the Family Room and one in the Kitchen downstairs. My office already has a Heat Pump I installed a few years back, since the AC didn't work very well in there. Most nights, just one of the bedrooms is in use, since our Autistic Son at 17, still insists on sleeping with us and most days are spent in the Kitchen and Family room. With this setup, my Dining room and Living Room (which we currently rarely use) wouldn't be cooled. I currently spend around $4-500 a month on my 12 SEER Air Conditioning system. . If I were to do a setup like this, leaving the existing system for the occasional usage of my unused rooms and mostly just running 1 or 2 zones at a time, would I save a lot on my AC bill?
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Stephen
If you can choose between air source and ground source heat pump then whats the return on investment ie which is going to cover its install cost sooner assuming a set amount of use and heat generated. Also would air source heat pumps work best in warm climates where outside air can be very warm (30/90s? Also many water source heat pumps need access to a PRIVATE water source, not sure you can just extract the heat from your local river and dump the colder thermal load back into the water via a heat exchanger? Also if you live in warmer climates would nighttime air temp not be be quite high and thus allow for air source heat pumps to extract heat even overnight? It also seems quite straightforward to dump the excess heat into a water tank so in the morning your shower is not just luke warm.
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If you can choose between air source and ground source heat pump then whats the return on investment ie which is going to cover its install cost sooner assuming a set amount of use and heat generated. Also would air source heat pumps work best in warm climates where outside air can be very warm (30/90s? Also many water source heat pumps need access to a PRIVATE water source, not sure you can just extract the heat from your local river and dump the colder thermal load back into the water via a heat exchanger? Also if you live in warmer climates would nighttime air temp not be be quite high and thus allow for air source heat pumps to extract heat even overnight? It also seems quite straightforward to dump the excess heat into a water tank so in the morning your shower is not just luke warm.
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Antti
Do they also manufacture heat pump energy harvest system from the waste water. You know, they flow usually so deep, that the temperature could be lowered like a few degrees without concern of icing. Also waste water is commonly so so called salty, that it actually could be cooled to maybe zero nearly always.
And do they make accessory additive system to air-to-air or air-to-water pumping. Like glycol-water, old or spare part car radiator, and circulator pump. To own yard or field to a few dozen centimeters, and there you go, like ground to air; but the investment cost maybe a few hundred euros/bucks. Why heat wells, do not understand. In narrow spaces, vital maybe.
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Do they also manufacture heat pump energy harvest system from the waste water. You know, they flow usually so deep, that the temperature could be lowered like a few degrees without concern of icing. Also waste water is commonly so so called salty, that it actually could be cooled to maybe zero nearly always.
And do they make accessory additive system to air-to-air or air-to-water pumping. Like glycol-water, old or spare part car radiator, and circulator pump. To own yard or field to a few dozen centimeters, and there you go, like ground to air; but the investment cost maybe a few hundred euros/bucks. Why heat wells, do not understand. In narrow spaces, vital maybe.
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Philip
Continuation and we bet more technical and he does censor or mechanical switch that will detect ice buildup on the evaporator coil that will make him break a contact on his low voltage side of the controls to clarify this unit will be a heating only and will run on second hand salvaged control components for which the capacity to make and break current through a switch will be completely Overkill one componentthat I would like to have that may or may not exist would be a digital displayed remote sensing stat that has adjustable cut in and cut out points the temperature and humidity that this pile of crap can safely operate in without icing the evaporator coil over
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Continuation and we bet more technical and he does censor or mechanical switch that will detect ice buildup on the evaporator coil that will make him break a contact on his low voltage side of the controls to clarify this unit will be a heating only and will run on second hand salvaged control components for which the capacity to make and break current through a switch will be completely Overkill one componentthat I would like to have that may or may not exist would be a digital displayed remote sensing stat that has adjustable cut in and cut out points the temperature and humidity that this pile of crap can safely operate in without icing the evaporator coil over
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Philip
Well here is my heating solution for a small room I bought a harrier air conditioner that is 8000 BTUs per hour it is a 410A unit I paid $5 for it the manufacturer included an extra metal part that held the capacitor in place located underneath the circuit board now it's blew the fuse I purchased a 10 amp fuse the board called for a 16 but it is what was available the unit worked I intend to take a 24-volt contactor and a heating thermostat in conjunction with a transformer and put the evaporator coil to the outside and and set aside the fancy circuit board with its remote and teeny relay that runs on six volts
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Well here is my heating solution for a small room I bought a harrier air conditioner that is 8000 BTUs per hour it is a 410A unit I paid $5 for it the manufacturer included an extra metal part that held the capacitor in place located underneath the circuit board now it's blew the fuse I purchased a 10 amp fuse the board called for a 16 but it is what was available the unit worked I intend to take a 24-volt contactor and a heating thermostat in conjunction with a transformer and put the evaporator coil to the outside and and set aside the fancy circuit board with its remote and teeny relay that runs on six volts
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Jim
As a physicist, it disturbs me to see energy in units of kW, which is only appropriate for power. The units for energy are kWh, or kilowatt-hours. It's like listening to concrete contractor speaking of yards of concrete needed for a project.
We physicists naturally perform dimensional analysis to check validity of our equations and formulas, and, if they don't pass, we consider them bogus from the get-go.
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As a physicist, it disturbs me to see energy in units of kW, which is only appropriate for power. The units for energy are kWh, or kilowatt-hours. It's like listening to concrete contractor speaking of yards of concrete needed for a project.
We physicists naturally perform dimensional analysis to check validity of our equations and formulas, and, if they don't pass, we consider them bogus from the get-go.
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LasseBB
I bought and installed my 5kw (SCOP of 5) split air to air heat pump for 550$ US and thats include a wifi module to control it. Those prices presented here seems rather high, but for the water and ground source units it seems realistic. I truly don't understand why there units are so much higher in price when they basically is the same unit, just a different heat exchanger attached.
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I bought and installed my 5kw (SCOP of 5) split air to air heat pump for 550$ US and thats include a wifi module to control it. Those prices presented here seems rather high, but for the water and ground source units it seems realistic. I truly don't understand why there units are so much higher in price when they basically is the same unit, just a different heat exchanger attached.
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Eric
Has anyone tried tapping into the grey water leaving the home? Bathtub/shower, dishwasher, washing machine, kitchen sink? I think a heat pump would love all that waste heat. A grey tank in the basement. Is it doable? Edit: Yes I do understand there would be regular maintenance of any household grey tank with messy cleaning but it may be worth it. I live in Canada. Brrrr
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Has anyone tried tapping into the grey water leaving the home? Bathtub/shower, dishwasher, washing machine, kitchen sink? I think a heat pump would love all that waste heat. A grey tank in the basement. Is it doable? Edit: Yes I do understand there would be regular maintenance of any household grey tank with messy cleaning but it may be worth it. I live in Canada. Brrrr
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Eyes
Informative video, and I'm all for clean energy, but I always have to throw a flag on people describing electric power as 100% efficient or 0 emissions. Electricity isn't a power source -- it's just a convenient way of transmitting energy harvested from other sources. Electric power is only as clean or efficient as the original power source.
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Informative video, and I'm all for clean energy, but I always have to throw a flag on people describing electric power as 100% efficient or 0 emissions. Electricity isn't a power source -- it's just a convenient way of transmitting energy harvested from other sources. Electric power is only as clean or efficient as the original power source.
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Jack
Would be amazing to have a video on borehole systems, how is the fluid physically transferred, different method of transferring thermal energy, different ways to reject thermal energy (including rejecting water back to a river maybe) Rising water table in city of london is a good talking point! cheers for all the great vids!
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Would be amazing to have a video on borehole systems, how is the fluid physically transferred, different method of transferring thermal energy, different ways to reject thermal energy (including rejecting water back to a river maybe) Rising water table in city of london is a good talking point! cheers for all the great vids!
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backpackmac
Good video but key elements are scop and capacity drop off at lower temperatures. There is a large variety depending upon specification. Check scop and delivery capacity at -7 degrees ambient with flow temp for heating at 45c to make sure you are getting a decent product
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Good video but key elements are scop and capacity drop off at lower temperatures. There is a large variety depending upon specification. Check scop and delivery capacity at -7 degrees ambient with flow temp for heating at 45c to make sure you are getting a decent product
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Patrick
Is there a good formula for inputting scop, cop, seer, hspf along with tonnage to compare a furniture with x btu burner. Of course also adding your local cost per kWh & cubic foot of gas?
It seems like it should be pretty simple. X energy in = x btu out
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Is there a good formula for inputting scop, cop, seer, hspf along with tonnage to compare a furniture with x btu burner. Of course also adding your local cost per kWh & cubic foot of gas?
It seems like it should be pretty simple. X energy in = x btu out
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Philippe
Good video. But I was wondering; are you sure, in the imperials coefficents, that the top unit you need to use is the BTU and not the BTU/h? Because the watt is a unit of power like the BTU/h and the BTU is a unit of energy like the joule.
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Good video. But I was wondering; are you sure, in the imperials coefficents, that the top unit you need to use is the BTU and not the BTU/h? Because the watt is a unit of power like the BTU/h and the BTU is a unit of energy like the joule.
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Natural
Natural Gas heat is much less expensive than any type of mini split heat pump. I learned this after days of research. Why? Because natural gas is cheap, even at 85% efficiency, it is less expensive to use. Don't be fooled.
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Natural Gas heat is much less expensive than any type of mini split heat pump. I learned this after days of research. Why? Because natural gas is cheap, even at 85% efficiency, it is less expensive to use. Don't be fooled.
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Open
I installed my split unit. Under my 2 foot overhang on the south wall my house.
So in the Summer time its in the shade!
In the winter its in the sun on a dark wall.
That really increase efficiency.
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I installed my split unit. Under my 2 foot overhang on the south wall my house.
So in the Summer time its in the shade!
In the winter its in the sun on a dark wall.
That really increase efficiency.
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Leon
For the EER section, I think the US and EU typical rating ranges are flipped. 1 W = 3. 41 BTU/h so the US values would be inflated to 11-16, instead of the EU (W/W.
Very informative video, thank you!
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For the EER section, I think the US and EU typical rating ranges are flipped. 1 W = 3. 41 BTU/h so the US values would be inflated to 11-16, instead of the EU (W/W.
Very informative video, thank you!
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Matthew
Anyone know of a database where I can search heat pumps by their SCOP? Energy Star in the US doesn't have SCOP. And my search results for SCOP databases are coming up short
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Anyone know of a database where I can search heat pumps by their SCOP? Energy Star in the US doesn't have SCOP. And my search results for SCOP databases are coming up short
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Harmony-Spirit
Great videos, love it! What would your suggestion be to heat a shipping container used as an urban vegetable farm in Canadian winter months?
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Great videos, love it! What would your suggestion be to heat a shipping container used as an urban vegetable farm in Canadian winter months?
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jose
i think your the best and superb than mechanical engineer and architect and designer as well as the best presentation thank you and much appreciated
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i think your the best and superb than mechanical engineer and architect and designer as well as the best presentation thank you and much appreciated
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John
They might be efficient, but they can never compete with a gas boiler. Not enough heat in the winter when you need it most. Expensive and useless.
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They might be efficient, but they can never compete with a gas boiler. Not enough heat in the winter when you need it most. Expensive and useless.
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wnose
7: 50 what if you buried a 5000 Gal water tank under ground (say 20 ft deep, placed 3 feet of insulation on top and used it as a battery?
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7: 50 what if you buried a 5000 Gal water tank under ground (say 20 ft deep, placed 3 feet of insulation on top and used it as a battery?
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None
Nice overview, but I think you should have stated whether the values are linear or not and if not to what degree is typical.
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Nice overview, but I think you should have stated whether the values are linear or not and if not to what degree is typical.
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Balaram
Do manufacturers include the energy used for pumping the water/fluid to the heat exchanger into the energy rating?
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Do manufacturers include the energy used for pumping the water/fluid to the heat exchanger into the energy rating?
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Bryan
i wanted to let you know i love all of your videos. keep up the great work for and thank you for what you do!
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i wanted to let you know i love all of your videos. keep up the great work for and thank you for what you do!
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