I followed a YouTube Battery Hack and Wasted 30 Days!
video description
The designers of the Sinclair C5 knew about this - the original battery was rated at 36ah, but they could only use 80% of the battery, and over 300 cycles the capacity would drop by 20%
Lithium iron cells report the true capacity - and this is usually achievable
Date: 2023-03-05
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Comments and reviews: 14
Michael
Desulphation of lead acid batteries is a bit more complicated than just passing current pulses to break up the sulphate crystals. First the battery needs to be emptied and washed to remove any sediment. Next the acid is replaced with new solution mixed to the correct specific gravity. The desulphation charge and pulse cycle is run through a couple of times until the two sets of plates are visibly different in colour when charged. The battery is then drained and cleaned once more before being filled with new acid. The capacity will never be as good as the original specifications but it can be used in an emergency situation to get out trouble if there is no alternative. The rejuvenated batteries will last for perhaps a year before replacement is absolutely necessary. This procedure was used for the emergency battery systems on merchant navy ships where the ships might be away in remote areas of the world for a couple of years before returning to civilisation where new batteries could be obtained. Not a trivial process and very time consuming and labour intensive to carry out properly. The other disadvantage is that any clothes worn when carrying out such battery maintenance dissolves into a mass of holes due to the effects of acid and the acidic vapour.
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Desulphation of lead acid batteries is a bit more complicated than just passing current pulses to break up the sulphate crystals. First the battery needs to be emptied and washed to remove any sediment. Next the acid is replaced with new solution mixed to the correct specific gravity. The desulphation charge and pulse cycle is run through a couple of times until the two sets of plates are visibly different in colour when charged. The battery is then drained and cleaned once more before being filled with new acid. The capacity will never be as good as the original specifications but it can be used in an emergency situation to get out trouble if there is no alternative. The rejuvenated batteries will last for perhaps a year before replacement is absolutely necessary. This procedure was used for the emergency battery systems on merchant navy ships where the ships might be away in remote areas of the world for a couple of years before returning to civilisation where new batteries could be obtained. Not a trivial process and very time consuming and labour intensive to carry out properly. The other disadvantage is that any clothes worn when carrying out such battery maintenance dissolves into a mass of holes due to the effects of acid and the acidic vapour.
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Aabhas
I have apparently faced the sulfation issue on a battery of a solar system. I don't think it helps on old batteries, because they are just old. In my case, it was a battery that was over specced, both for the charging and discharging current. You loose the battery runtime quite rapidly. What I found out was that you can fix that by drawing a very large current, which generates Hydrogen and seemingly revitalizes the plates.
The battery I had was 22Ah and I used 2 automotive H4 halogens at 55 Watts each as the high current discharge. The bulbs started off dim, then go brighter as the current increases and then go dim again once the battery is discharged. In my case, this happened within 10-15 minutes.
Cannot comment of the desulpfation circuits, but from my limited knowledge, high current spikes in the millisecond range is not going to do anything.
So, if someone has a battery that is overspecced for the application (both, charge and discharge currents, I would highly suggest you check up on it, and try the high current discharge desulphation. The best method to prevent such problems is to properly spec the battery, with 10% of the rated capacity as the charge current, as Scott mentions in the video.
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I have apparently faced the sulfation issue on a battery of a solar system. I don't think it helps on old batteries, because they are just old. In my case, it was a battery that was over specced, both for the charging and discharging current. You loose the battery runtime quite rapidly. What I found out was that you can fix that by drawing a very large current, which generates Hydrogen and seemingly revitalizes the plates.
The battery I had was 22Ah and I used 2 automotive H4 halogens at 55 Watts each as the high current discharge. The bulbs started off dim, then go brighter as the current increases and then go dim again once the battery is discharged. In my case, this happened within 10-15 minutes.
Cannot comment of the desulpfation circuits, but from my limited knowledge, high current spikes in the millisecond range is not going to do anything.
So, if someone has a battery that is overspecced for the application (both, charge and discharge currents, I would highly suggest you check up on it, and try the high current discharge desulphation. The best method to prevent such problems is to properly spec the battery, with 10% of the rated capacity as the charge current, as Scott mentions in the video.
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madcow
Slightly different subject, I got sick of lead acid batteries dying. In the last couple years I've been responsible for 6 cars: Work and home, old and new(used) cars. With the exception of an electric car, the other 5 had lead acid batteries from different brands that died at less than 2 years old. I kept one going a few extra months with a desulfator. Maybe manufacturing has turned bad, maybe I had bad luck. I replaced my car's battery with a Lithium Titanate battery. It cost me 1, 000 for cells, busbars, and an equalizer (few BMS's can handle that current. It's worked great for a year. I just tested it with a car battery tester and I think I maxed the tester out at 1200 CCA. I could have put fewer cells, but I wanted at least 100Ah for running things like a portable refrigerator (for the love of god, not a thermoelectric cooler. In 10 years when that car dies I'll move the battery into my next car, or another project.
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Slightly different subject, I got sick of lead acid batteries dying. In the last couple years I've been responsible for 6 cars: Work and home, old and new(used) cars. With the exception of an electric car, the other 5 had lead acid batteries from different brands that died at less than 2 years old. I kept one going a few extra months with a desulfator. Maybe manufacturing has turned bad, maybe I had bad luck. I replaced my car's battery with a Lithium Titanate battery. It cost me 1, 000 for cells, busbars, and an equalizer (few BMS's can handle that current. It's worked great for a year. I just tested it with a car battery tester and I think I maxed the tester out at 1200 CCA. I could have put fewer cells, but I wanted at least 100Ah for running things like a portable refrigerator (for the love of god, not a thermoelectric cooler. In 10 years when that car dies I'll move the battery into my next car, or another project.
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Power
I have had some dead batteries from a golf cart that I tried reviving a number of different ways (desulfation circuits, putting different additives into the cells) and I saw only very small improvement in the battery though very non-scientific testing (measuring current whist charging, the voltage they hold open circuit at rest or under load, but nothing anywhere near enough to make the batteries usable again. The damage to the cells is physical in nature as the lead sponge literally flakes off and collects at the bottom of the cells. Deep cycle batteries have larger space at the bottom to allow more to collect before it causes the cell to short out as I have heard (and also use more robust solid lead plates rather than very porous lead sponge, which the compromise between ESR and capacity)
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I have had some dead batteries from a golf cart that I tried reviving a number of different ways (desulfation circuits, putting different additives into the cells) and I saw only very small improvement in the battery though very non-scientific testing (measuring current whist charging, the voltage they hold open circuit at rest or under load, but nothing anywhere near enough to make the batteries usable again. The damage to the cells is physical in nature as the lead sponge literally flakes off and collects at the bottom of the cells. Deep cycle batteries have larger space at the bottom to allow more to collect before it causes the cell to short out as I have heard (and also use more robust solid lead plates rather than very porous lead sponge, which the compromise between ESR and capacity)
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education
I love how this concept must completely ignore the fact that Lead Acid chemical batteries have not been new technology for 165 years. It's obvious that you did this for clicks and didn't bother to do your research first, because if you HAD, you would know that your car battery did not simply get old and tired. When the battery begins to lose the ability to hold it's charge, it's actually a symptom of an end-of-life fatal disease (if you will. All lead acid car batteries eventually die because the lead plates that exist inside of 6 individual 2. 2v cells, will eventually become Sulfated. It's a chemical reaction and you cannot circumvent it by simply forcing a charge into it. It's more likely that it just explodes, but it certainly wont start working again.
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I love how this concept must completely ignore the fact that Lead Acid chemical batteries have not been new technology for 165 years. It's obvious that you did this for clicks and didn't bother to do your research first, because if you HAD, you would know that your car battery did not simply get old and tired. When the battery begins to lose the ability to hold it's charge, it's actually a symptom of an end-of-life fatal disease (if you will. All lead acid car batteries eventually die because the lead plates that exist inside of 6 individual 2. 2v cells, will eventually become Sulfated. It's a chemical reaction and you cannot circumvent it by simply forcing a charge into it. It's more likely that it just explodes, but it certainly wont start working again.
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Alexander
I read some on this topic a while ago, and if I remember correctly, the sulfate that is created during normal use is thin, spongy and easily converts back into the electrolyte when charging. Left for too long however, the suflate hardens and does not covert back. The desulfators can in the best case crack this hard layer. This would verify other comments about the process not increasing the capacity (the electrolyte remains weak) but potentially getting an improved current flow (less plate resistance.
The pieces nocked off by the process fall to the bottom of the battery where there is a collection chamber. When this fills up and touches the bottom of the plates, the battery is completely toast.
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I read some on this topic a while ago, and if I remember correctly, the sulfate that is created during normal use is thin, spongy and easily converts back into the electrolyte when charging. Left for too long however, the suflate hardens and does not covert back. The desulfators can in the best case crack this hard layer. This would verify other comments about the process not increasing the capacity (the electrolyte remains weak) but potentially getting an improved current flow (less plate resistance.
The pieces nocked off by the process fall to the bottom of the battery where there is a collection chamber. When this fills up and touches the bottom of the plates, the battery is completely toast.
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Richies
With enough current and cycles you WILL desulfate to a degree more than those tiny low current desulfators. I have done this with a huge 300 amp welder. Of course I wasn't running 300 amps to a battery, but I was running a lot. I did see noticeable improvement and was able to put the battery back in service. Just if you do this wear protection, and for God's sake don't leave it on for a long time and walk away too far. I let the electrolyte bubble between 5 and 10 minutes then stop for a half hour. The more cycles the better. I wouldn't suggest trying this with a small cheap welder as it's life expectancy may be compromised. Lol
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With enough current and cycles you WILL desulfate to a degree more than those tiny low current desulfators. I have done this with a huge 300 amp welder. Of course I wasn't running 300 amps to a battery, but I was running a lot. I did see noticeable improvement and was able to put the battery back in service. Just if you do this wear protection, and for God's sake don't leave it on for a long time and walk away too far. I let the electrolyte bubble between 5 and 10 minutes then stop for a half hour. The more cycles the better. I wouldn't suggest trying this with a small cheap welder as it's life expectancy may be compromised. Lol
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Enderkruemel
so i used mostly an homemade re-emf charger or bedini for this. for me this works just fine. desulfating happens mostly while charging i think. also it uses high voltage spikes instat of current, so it breakes down the insulating oxide layer that than disolves the acid. we use two 5A re-emf cirquits even at work over the weekend to charge and keep the batterys of our 2 smaller electric forklifts full(each one 160ah 24v) so we had never any problem whith those anymore and the batterys do live longer. but i dont think reviving is a thing. only prevent or delay the sulfating. so take care of your batteries.
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so i used mostly an homemade re-emf charger or bedini for this. for me this works just fine. desulfating happens mostly while charging i think. also it uses high voltage spikes instat of current, so it breakes down the insulating oxide layer that than disolves the acid. we use two 5A re-emf cirquits even at work over the weekend to charge and keep the batterys of our 2 smaller electric forklifts full(each one 160ah 24v) so we had never any problem whith those anymore and the batterys do live longer. but i dont think reviving is a thing. only prevent or delay the sulfating. so take care of your batteries.
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Filip
My old electronics teacher once told me, that in order to make a true desulfator, You'd have to get a higher-than-usual voltage from OUTSIDE the battery, and pulse it in very, very short pulses at around 1kHz. He recommended starting with 16V, then, if that did not work, go up to 18V. If that don't work, then the battery is not salvageable, at least without taking it apart (and batteries cannot be taken apart since the '80s, at least here in Poland)
Not sure if I remember this correctly, so use this kernel of (questionable) knowledge with a grain of salt, and itry it at Your own risk
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My old electronics teacher once told me, that in order to make a true desulfator, You'd have to get a higher-than-usual voltage from OUTSIDE the battery, and pulse it in very, very short pulses at around 1kHz. He recommended starting with 16V, then, if that did not work, go up to 18V. If that don't work, then the battery is not salvageable, at least without taking it apart (and batteries cannot be taken apart since the '80s, at least here in Poland)
Not sure if I remember this correctly, so use this kernel of (questionable) knowledge with a grain of salt, and itry it at Your own risk
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WestCoast
Thanks for debunking this finally, I was wondering if there was a way to possibly revive my 102Ah deep cycle battery. We here in South Africa experience daily power cuts 2 hours, 3x per day (referred to as loadshedding by our power utility that currently can't provide our country with enough electricity. I recently lost a deep cycle 102Ah battery due to this constant charging, discharging cycles in my inverter. The battery is just past one year old. Lithium is better, but unfortunately outside my price range for now. Keep up the good work.
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Thanks for debunking this finally, I was wondering if there was a way to possibly revive my 102Ah deep cycle battery. We here in South Africa experience daily power cuts 2 hours, 3x per day (referred to as loadshedding by our power utility that currently can't provide our country with enough electricity. I recently lost a deep cycle 102Ah battery due to this constant charging, discharging cycles in my inverter. The battery is just past one year old. Lithium is better, but unfortunately outside my price range for now. Keep up the good work.
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Make
From what my research on these has shown, and using one myself, there is a point of no return for the batteries. If they are lightly sulfated it CAN bring them back to life. But if the battery sat dry, or has an internal short or broken plate no amount of desulfating will revive it.
One other thing to keep in mind is while the battery may not have enough juice to start a car, it can still power lower-draw devices in an emergency if you are smart. Granted it is not totally nuked, to begin with.
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From what my research on these has shown, and using one myself, there is a point of no return for the batteries. If they are lightly sulfated it CAN bring them back to life. But if the battery sat dry, or has an internal short or broken plate no amount of desulfating will revive it.
One other thing to keep in mind is while the battery may not have enough juice to start a car, it can still power lower-draw devices in an emergency if you are smart. Granted it is not totally nuked, to begin with.
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greatscott
Mostly unrelated to the video content, but I noticed when you were showing shots of the PCB layout in Altium that your polygons are overflowing the PCB edge. I was having the same issue and I recently figured out how to fix it. If you duplicate your board outline to the Keep-Out layer, you can assign a rule to have your polygons maintain a specified distance from any Keep-Out layer object, and effectively follow the contour of the Outline. Keep up the great work!
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Mostly unrelated to the video content, but I noticed when you were showing shots of the PCB layout in Altium that your polygons are overflowing the PCB edge. I was having the same issue and I recently figured out how to fix it. If you duplicate your board outline to the Keep-Out layer, you can assign a rule to have your polygons maintain a specified distance from any Keep-Out layer object, and effectively follow the contour of the Outline. Keep up the great work!
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Adri n
Could not have posted this video at a better time! I'm currently trying to revive a 12V 180Ah lead acid batt. for an off grid type power system, and i cant charge the battery above 13. 5V, and it drops to 12. 5 if i disconect the charger, and i was about to start making a desulfator, but i guess my chanches are pretty low. So thank you for this video, i researched this topic for hours, and didn't have a clear answer if this is working or not, now i kinda know!
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Could not have posted this video at a better time! I'm currently trying to revive a 12V 180Ah lead acid batt. for an off grid type power system, and i cant charge the battery above 13. 5V, and it drops to 12. 5 if i disconect the charger, and i was about to start making a desulfator, but i guess my chanches are pretty low. So thank you for this video, i researched this topic for hours, and didn't have a clear answer if this is working or not, now i kinda know!
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SpyghettiGaming
Super awesome, you're are doing electronic Jeezus work. I've seen so many of these desulfator videos or 'hacks'. Amazing amount of work you put in to test these things. I have never been able to revive a battery to useable state once they get exposed to a long winter or drop below their working voltage, maybe added another year of limping along a battery to use in a riding lawn mower but definitely replacement is pretty much the path.
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Super awesome, you're are doing electronic Jeezus work. I've seen so many of these desulfator videos or 'hacks'. Amazing amount of work you put in to test these things. I have never been able to revive a battery to useable state once they get exposed to a long winter or drop below their working voltage, maybe added another year of limping along a battery to use in a riding lawn mower but definitely replacement is pretty much the path.
reply
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