The Difference Between 2/2 and 4/4 Time Signatures - Music Theory
video description
Date: 2022-03-28
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 10
Sam
At a certain point all tempos and meters eventually become the same. 2/2 with the half note at 80 is the same as 4/4 with the quarter at 160 which is the same as 8/8 with the eighth at 320 (not that anybody would ever use that). At a certain point once you keep adding or subtracting BPM you end up back where you started just with a different subdivision of the whole note, but the divisions below and higher than the one you count with convert back to each other. So if there's a 2/2 piece in 70 bpm, the subdivisions are really in 140 bpm, but these are actually equivalent, you could count both tempos on both feet if you really wanted (and generally, you don't count just the ictus, you also count the subdivisions).
There's actually only a limited number of tempi that the whole note can have if you look at it this way, because the higher or lower you go you always end up circling back to a tempo you had previously.
There's also nothing actually stopping you from counting 4/4 in two or 2/2 in four. Usually you do count faster 4/4 tempos in two, beats 2 and 4 are the same as the -and- of 1 and 2 in 2/2, the stresses fall in the same places too.
reply
At a certain point all tempos and meters eventually become the same. 2/2 with the half note at 80 is the same as 4/4 with the quarter at 160 which is the same as 8/8 with the eighth at 320 (not that anybody would ever use that). At a certain point once you keep adding or subtracting BPM you end up back where you started just with a different subdivision of the whole note, but the divisions below and higher than the one you count with convert back to each other. So if there's a 2/2 piece in 70 bpm, the subdivisions are really in 140 bpm, but these are actually equivalent, you could count both tempos on both feet if you really wanted (and generally, you don't count just the ictus, you also count the subdivisions).
There's actually only a limited number of tempi that the whole note can have if you look at it this way, because the higher or lower you go you always end up circling back to a tempo you had previously.
There's also nothing actually stopping you from counting 4/4 in two or 2/2 in four. Usually you do count faster 4/4 tempos in two, beats 2 and 4 are the same as the -and- of 1 and 2 in 2/2, the stresses fall in the same places too.
reply
Jim
Great explanation. I wish someone had been around who explained things this clearly back when I finally realised the importance of understanding what I was playing. I played in a full-time rock band back in the '70s that did cover tunes. We only played one original tune and, all being self-taught and unable to read/write music, just played what felt natural to us. We had no idea there was anything different about it until the first time we played it on-stage in a bar and it cleared the dance-floor. At the end of the set we took a guitar back to the dressing room and figured out what the problem was; it was in 11/4. That was the night I decided that learning how to read music and some theory was probably a good idea. (I still have no idea why something in 11/4 felt so natural. The fact we never counted it out and none of us could dance probably had something to do with it.)
reply
Great explanation. I wish someone had been around who explained things this clearly back when I finally realised the importance of understanding what I was playing. I played in a full-time rock band back in the '70s that did cover tunes. We only played one original tune and, all being self-taught and unable to read/write music, just played what felt natural to us. We had no idea there was anything different about it until the first time we played it on-stage in a bar and it cleared the dance-floor. At the end of the set we took a guitar back to the dressing room and figured out what the problem was; it was in 11/4. That was the night I decided that learning how to read music and some theory was probably a good idea. (I still have no idea why something in 11/4 felt so natural. The fact we never counted it out and none of us could dance probably had something to do with it.)
reply
Mean
Sir, your explanations are fine. I appreciate that, I understand the difference. In a world of Prog music we encounter many odd signatures. But what if polystylism kicks in? If I may humbly interest you, with band called Haken and their instrumental composition, Nil By Mouth. In a middle of the song I feel there's poly rhythm of 11/16 within 4/4 signature. Everybody laughs at me, that I'm crazy, but I feel like it's intentional. Is it possible? I'd try to send you exact moment played on drum cover of this song. If you curious, check it out.
reply
Sir, your explanations are fine. I appreciate that, I understand the difference. In a world of Prog music we encounter many odd signatures. But what if polystylism kicks in? If I may humbly interest you, with band called Haken and their instrumental composition, Nil By Mouth. In a middle of the song I feel there's poly rhythm of 11/16 within 4/4 signature. Everybody laughs at me, that I'm crazy, but I feel like it's intentional. Is it possible? I'd try to send you exact moment played on drum cover of this song. If you curious, check it out.
reply
scabbarae
As a beginning guitar player, I really appreciated this video as it made a lot of sense to me. However, I was still having some trouble distinguishing between 2/2 and 4/4 until just now, when I started learning to play -Angels Fall- by Winterpills, and realized I was counting it as -ONE and TWO and ONE and TWO...-
...and then it clicked for real. Counting -One-two-three-four- seemed unnecessarily fast and impatient for a hazy, melancholy kind of song like that. Thank you sir!
reply
As a beginning guitar player, I really appreciated this video as it made a lot of sense to me. However, I was still having some trouble distinguishing between 2/2 and 4/4 until just now, when I started learning to play -Angels Fall- by Winterpills, and realized I was counting it as -ONE and TWO and ONE and TWO...-
...and then it clicked for real. Counting -One-two-three-four- seemed unnecessarily fast and impatient for a hazy, melancholy kind of song like that. Thank you sir!
reply
Hexspa
Very nice. I'm much clearer on this now. Prior, I semi-consciously assumed that 2/2 would feel heavier. This is likely due to half notes (minims) being strong in 4/4. Turns out the contrary is true.
4/4 has two strong beats and 2/2 just has one. So, in a sense, 2/2 has just one beat per measure and 4/4 has two. Maybe Bluegrass is the strongest example I'm somewhat familiar with with a 2/2 feel.
reply
Very nice. I'm much clearer on this now. Prior, I semi-consciously assumed that 2/2 would feel heavier. This is likely due to half notes (minims) being strong in 4/4. Turns out the contrary is true.
4/4 has two strong beats and 2/2 just has one. So, in a sense, 2/2 has just one beat per measure and 4/4 has two. Maybe Bluegrass is the strongest example I'm somewhat familiar with with a 2/2 feel.
reply
claymore
you have not defined what you mean by 'beat' ... what is a 'beat'? a piano note keystrike? a drumstick stroke? an up and down hand movement? a sound on a metronome? are all beats audible or are some silent? if a beat is just an arbitrary division of clock time ((1 beat = 1 second (or 2/3 sec etc) of music space)) then 2/2 and 4/4 should be the same thing
reply
you have not defined what you mean by 'beat' ... what is a 'beat'? a piano note keystrike? a drumstick stroke? an up and down hand movement? a sound on a metronome? are all beats audible or are some silent? if a beat is just an arbitrary division of clock time ((1 beat = 1 second (or 2/3 sec etc) of music space)) then 2/2 and 4/4 should be the same thing
reply
Alex
The -C- in a time signature doesn't stand for -common time-. After all, music notation is in Italian. The -C- is actually a broken circle. A circle represented music in 3. 3 was considered divine from the Holy Trinity. A circle has no beginning or end. If a finite or non-holy time of 4 was wanted, the circle was broken and it looks like a -C-.
reply
The -C- in a time signature doesn't stand for -common time-. After all, music notation is in Italian. The -C- is actually a broken circle. A circle represented music in 3. 3 was considered divine from the Holy Trinity. A circle has no beginning or end. If a finite or non-holy time of 4 was wanted, the circle was broken and it looks like a -C-.
reply
David
I may have missed something here, but I thought the basic difference is that in 4/4, every -fourth- beat is accented; in 2/2, every -other- beat is accented. In addition, I thought that 'march time' would be 2/2; you indicate that it's 4/4.
Cheers.
reply
I may have missed something here, but I thought the basic difference is that in 4/4, every -fourth- beat is accented; in 2/2, every -other- beat is accented. In addition, I thought that 'march time' would be 2/2; you indicate that it's 4/4.
Cheers.
reply
alcraig1
Wow, I studied music theory at a highly respected university and have been involved with music for over 40 years. I have never heard of (or seen) 2/2. 2/4 yes. 4/4 yes. What is the point of 2/2 and can you share an example of a work that uses it?
reply
Wow, I studied music theory at a highly respected university and have been involved with music for over 40 years. I have never heard of (or seen) 2/2. 2/4 yes. 4/4 yes. What is the point of 2/2 and can you share an example of a work that uses it?
reply
JimmyDeLocke
I have encountered the same situation trying to get blues and rock and roll guys to understand bluegrass music. To them it feels like we're changing chords in the middle of the measure
reply
I have encountered the same situation trying to get blues and rock and roll guys to understand bluegrass music. To them it feels like we're changing chords in the middle of the measure
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
