A brief history of Nintendo NOT letting you play as Zelda
video description
Date: 2024-10-08
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 20
Remidyo
Echoes of Wisdom is the first Zelda game I have played on actual Nintendo Hardware that I own, so that already adds infinite bonus points for sure, but it's such a great game as well, there is so much potential everywhere for the franchise. The mechanics being so different from what Link moveset is usually alike but also still feeling familiar and fitting in with the series!
The entire game is a bliss, over engineering how to traverse places with echoes of objects is about half my time spent playing the game (even when using a creature can be more efficient faster and simpler) the amount of options that you have are crazy! My only complaint so far as someone who is still a dungeon before the final dungeon is that I wish the game was longer and bigger, doing the sidequests is sure a lotta fun but it feels like the game can just End at any plot point.
The Lore possibilities that it brings is also incredible, there's a very quick note that in this reality Link Actually Speaks and got mute from a side effect of the rifts, and Zelda being able to speak but being silent in the player's perspective is definitely a creative choice / something that they put a little mark for people to see. This really brings so much stuff to the franchise.
It also immediately sets the precedent to have a possible Ganon as the MC game / spin off, imagine what story it could have with a great point of view of what Ganon's thoughts of this whole timeline mess are. It's definitely something that will happen in like 5 to 7 years for sure! There is so much potential for the future stories, I really really hope Echoes of Wisdom does well and more people really love it, it's an amazing game!
reply
Echoes of Wisdom is the first Zelda game I have played on actual Nintendo Hardware that I own, so that already adds infinite bonus points for sure, but it's such a great game as well, there is so much potential everywhere for the franchise. The mechanics being so different from what Link moveset is usually alike but also still feeling familiar and fitting in with the series!
The entire game is a bliss, over engineering how to traverse places with echoes of objects is about half my time spent playing the game (even when using a creature can be more efficient faster and simpler) the amount of options that you have are crazy! My only complaint so far as someone who is still a dungeon before the final dungeon is that I wish the game was longer and bigger, doing the sidequests is sure a lotta fun but it feels like the game can just End at any plot point.
The Lore possibilities that it brings is also incredible, there's a very quick note that in this reality Link Actually Speaks and got mute from a side effect of the rifts, and Zelda being able to speak but being silent in the player's perspective is definitely a creative choice / something that they put a little mark for people to see. This really brings so much stuff to the franchise.
It also immediately sets the precedent to have a possible Ganon as the MC game / spin off, imagine what story it could have with a great point of view of what Ganon's thoughts of this whole timeline mess are. It's definitely something that will happen in like 5 to 7 years for sure! There is so much potential for the future stories, I really really hope Echoes of Wisdom does well and more people really love it, it's an amazing game!
reply
kami_in_the_skye
As far as I'm concerned, the Hyrule Warriors games are canon. The crossover shenanigans of the OG make it a quick & easy explanation for how the timelines merged back together and everything that was previously timeline-exclusive can all exist in BotW's distant future. That also makes it a convenient separation point between the older games and the current era games in that context, which when considering what a wonderful celebration of what the series had been to that point, just feels right.
And just letting Age of Calamity exist in official canon as its own little pocket branch of the modern timeline doesn't hurt actually anything. It never has to be anything more than a fun side story where everything turned out okay for once, but it also puts another option on the board to play with if someone comes up with a killer story to spin out of it.
reply
As far as I'm concerned, the Hyrule Warriors games are canon. The crossover shenanigans of the OG make it a quick & easy explanation for how the timelines merged back together and everything that was previously timeline-exclusive can all exist in BotW's distant future. That also makes it a convenient separation point between the older games and the current era games in that context, which when considering what a wonderful celebration of what the series had been to that point, just feels right.
And just letting Age of Calamity exist in official canon as its own little pocket branch of the modern timeline doesn't hurt actually anything. It never has to be anything more than a fun side story where everything turned out okay for once, but it also puts another option on the board to play with if someone comes up with a killer story to spin out of it.
reply
robertbach3592
(Nitpicking) I wish they did a better job creating an identity for what a game where Zelda is the main character is. I’ve heard countless reviews of the game say it’s like ToTK, but in the top-down style of Zelda, which doesn’t offer a reason for this game to be a game about Zelda and not about Link. Being the triforce of wisdom, and also someone who can talk (unlike our stoic Link, I would’ve preferred to see this new game carve out a more mystery/dialogue choices matter sort of gameplay. Still have the magic, still have many of the elements this new Zelda has, but it now creates an identity that she can claim that Link’s design could never touch. This game is better than nothing and looks fun, but it could’ve been something so much more for the future of how we view Zelda (imo.
reply
(Nitpicking) I wish they did a better job creating an identity for what a game where Zelda is the main character is. I’ve heard countless reviews of the game say it’s like ToTK, but in the top-down style of Zelda, which doesn’t offer a reason for this game to be a game about Zelda and not about Link. Being the triforce of wisdom, and also someone who can talk (unlike our stoic Link, I would’ve preferred to see this new game carve out a more mystery/dialogue choices matter sort of gameplay. Still have the magic, still have many of the elements this new Zelda has, but it now creates an identity that she can claim that Link’s design could never touch. This game is better than nothing and looks fun, but it could’ve been something so much more for the future of how we view Zelda (imo.
reply
infebris
i dont get why people would think sheik is trans when its just zelda in a disguise to hide herself from ganon of course shes gonna pretend to be a guy so ganon is less suspicious of sheik. also, with the cross dressing thing its really not that deep. i'm all for support of trans characters and stuff like that but sadly nintendo has put nothing like that into the zelda world, thats just a fact, and if you find one you're looking too deep into it because that was never the intention and the intention DOES matter. idk if nintendo will every do anything with LGBTQ stuff cus it would mean they wouldnt be able to sell the game in certain countries where its banned, thats just how multinational businesses work and everyone knows how nintento is otherwise
reply
i dont get why people would think sheik is trans when its just zelda in a disguise to hide herself from ganon of course shes gonna pretend to be a guy so ganon is less suspicious of sheik. also, with the cross dressing thing its really not that deep. i'm all for support of trans characters and stuff like that but sadly nintendo has put nothing like that into the zelda world, thats just a fact, and if you find one you're looking too deep into it because that was never the intention and the intention DOES matter. idk if nintendo will every do anything with LGBTQ stuff cus it would mean they wouldnt be able to sell the game in certain countries where its banned, thats just how multinational businesses work and everyone knows how nintento is otherwise
reply
bigz4829
Why is the bar for Nintendo/Miyamoto/Aonuma to be pro-women set at playable character is woman/main playable character is woman.
Zelda's inclusion in spirit tracks is indeed token-ish since she IS effectively a magic wand to control spooky darknuts, but that claim is reductive. It's not a stretch to say that, but it IS reductive.
At least Echoes of Wisdom seems to not only be great but at least it came out at all. I understand the frustration and we shouldn't be happy with scraps, but the frustration with Spirit Tracks is best used if directed at her regulation to a Navi/Fi character. She nags. A lot.
Also if riding trains and using women as tools/being nagged by women isn't some weirdo at big N's fantasy I won't be surprised.
reply
Why is the bar for Nintendo/Miyamoto/Aonuma to be pro-women set at playable character is woman/main playable character is woman.
Zelda's inclusion in spirit tracks is indeed token-ish since she IS effectively a magic wand to control spooky darknuts, but that claim is reductive. It's not a stretch to say that, but it IS reductive.
At least Echoes of Wisdom seems to not only be great but at least it came out at all. I understand the frustration and we shouldn't be happy with scraps, but the frustration with Spirit Tracks is best used if directed at her regulation to a Navi/Fi character. She nags. A lot.
Also if riding trains and using women as tools/being nagged by women isn't some weirdo at big N's fantasy I won't be surprised.
reply
glowinggrenade
I think something very important about the Zelda series is that it is patterned like a haiku or a cultural music genre. The enjoyment is in how they meet the same things when also keeping it different. Zelda's personality isn't really damsel since ocarina but link has to be the sword guy and he has to fulfill his role otherwise it wouldn't be a Zelda game. You can deviate from the genre creatively but you must focus on the core parts that keep it Zelda. It would be appalling to apply the common storytelling goodness into Zelda because then it would take away what is special about it.
I've just started playing echoes and it fits these patterns so well so far.
reply
I think something very important about the Zelda series is that it is patterned like a haiku or a cultural music genre. The enjoyment is in how they meet the same things when also keeping it different. Zelda's personality isn't really damsel since ocarina but link has to be the sword guy and he has to fulfill his role otherwise it wouldn't be a Zelda game. You can deviate from the genre creatively but you must focus on the core parts that keep it Zelda. It would be appalling to apply the common storytelling goodness into Zelda because then it would take away what is special about it.
I've just started playing echoes and it fits these patterns so well so far.
reply
Pumpky_the_kobold
Sheik being Zelda in a different outfit was backpeddaling from the company. Sheik was supposed to be another entity. An elter-ego, in the most absolute sens: another being, living in the ocarina, meant to protect the royal family in vague and mysterious way that game in the 90s were not super keen to describe. But sheik was another sentient and living being, sharing existence with Zelda.
I came over this no sheil is just a costume so often over the years, and I had a ahrder and harder time finding the sources back. As old forums dies so does information I guess. I wish I could find those old japanese interviews.
reply
Sheik being Zelda in a different outfit was backpeddaling from the company. Sheik was supposed to be another entity. An elter-ego, in the most absolute sens: another being, living in the ocarina, meant to protect the royal family in vague and mysterious way that game in the 90s were not super keen to describe. But sheik was another sentient and living being, sharing existence with Zelda.
I came over this no sheil is just a costume so often over the years, and I had a ahrder and harder time finding the sources back. As old forums dies so does information I guess. I wish I could find those old japanese interviews.
reply
mysterwhymedia
17: 10 Intriguing interpretation of the initial teases for Tears of the Kingdom and what could have been.
Certainly would've been a fantastic shocker of a surprise had Zelda actually become the main protagonist for that adventure.
Hopefully if Echoes of Wisdom sells well, Nintendo will finally get the message that fans truly want to play as Zelda for once.
(I have not played Echoes of Wisdom yet and am holding out hope that Zelda will acquire some kind of Sheik form like she does for her swordfighter Link form. but I'm getting the feeling that that doesn't happen)
reply
17: 10 Intriguing interpretation of the initial teases for Tears of the Kingdom and what could have been.
Certainly would've been a fantastic shocker of a surprise had Zelda actually become the main protagonist for that adventure.
Hopefully if Echoes of Wisdom sells well, Nintendo will finally get the message that fans truly want to play as Zelda for once.
(I have not played Echoes of Wisdom yet and am holding out hope that Zelda will acquire some kind of Sheik form like she does for her swordfighter Link form. but I'm getting the feeling that that doesn't happen)
reply
WireMosasaur
Whenever this discussion comes up I always ponder the timeline where we get a game set in Lorule from A Link Between Worlds, where the fan theory is that the triforce roles in that world are shuffled slightly and Lorule's version of Link is sneaky and charismatic (Wisdom) and Lorule's version of Zelda is a stone cold badass who WILL stab you (Strength. Getting to play as either of them would be a really interesting mirror on their regular counterparts but I think getting to be Murder Zelda would be insanely fun and would remove that but that's Link's role problem entirely lol
reply
Whenever this discussion comes up I always ponder the timeline where we get a game set in Lorule from A Link Between Worlds, where the fan theory is that the triforce roles in that world are shuffled slightly and Lorule's version of Link is sneaky and charismatic (Wisdom) and Lorule's version of Zelda is a stone cold badass who WILL stab you (Strength. Getting to play as either of them would be a really interesting mirror on their regular counterparts but I think getting to be Murder Zelda would be insanely fun and would remove that but that's Link's role problem entirely lol
reply
902496
This game take a lot of notes from the philosophies presented in BotW/TotK game design. Pretty early on you can get echoes that allow you to break the game by climbing over walls meant to divide areas that are intended to be traversed linearly.
It doesn't play like a Zelda game at all. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever played a game that feels quite like this. The closest I can think of is playing a summoner in Terraria. Combat is a frenetic combination of summoning echoes to fight for you and avoiding enemy attacks, and you get around by placing blocks everywhere.
reply
This game take a lot of notes from the philosophies presented in BotW/TotK game design. Pretty early on you can get echoes that allow you to break the game by climbing over walls meant to divide areas that are intended to be traversed linearly.
It doesn't play like a Zelda game at all. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever played a game that feels quite like this. The closest I can think of is playing a summoner in Terraria. Combat is a frenetic combination of summoning echoes to fight for you and avoiding enemy attacks, and you get around by placing blocks everywhere.
reply
digitalclown2008
This video is really skewing its coverage of all the games to make a point, that isn't really accurate. Youre spinning it like Zelda has been done dirty, but link being the playable character is the whole game. It isn't a DISSERVICE that Zelda hasn't been playable, its a design choice. You characterize her role in all the other games in an intentionally negative way to oversell the significance of what is a very good spin off game. Its really weird tbh. Though this is 2024 game journalism so idk why I clicked expecting anything worth while.
reply
This video is really skewing its coverage of all the games to make a point, that isn't really accurate. Youre spinning it like Zelda has been done dirty, but link being the playable character is the whole game. It isn't a DISSERVICE that Zelda hasn't been playable, its a design choice. You characterize her role in all the other games in an intentionally negative way to oversell the significance of what is a very good spin off game. Its really weird tbh. Though this is 2024 game journalism so idk why I clicked expecting anything worth while.
reply
fireaza
The thing with readings of a narrative is there's a million ways you can interpret them in order to have them fit your desired worldview. If you had a trad view, you could read Zelda's actions in Ocarina of Time, as not trans-coded, but as trad-coded. She does after all, only use her Shiek disguise while Link is absent and when he's underpowered. When he's at full strength and able to protect her, she immediately drops the Shiek disguise and reverts back to her traditionally feminine appearance and she stays that way for the rest of the game.
reply
The thing with readings of a narrative is there's a million ways you can interpret them in order to have them fit your desired worldview. If you had a trad view, you could read Zelda's actions in Ocarina of Time, as not trans-coded, but as trad-coded. She does after all, only use her Shiek disguise while Link is absent and when he's underpowered. When he's at full strength and able to protect her, she immediately drops the Shiek disguise and reverts back to her traditionally feminine appearance and she stays that way for the rest of the game.
reply
kriscynical
I want to love everything about Echoes SO BADLY but the combat is just so damn tedious to me. I'm usually pretty aggressive with the melee combat in BotW/TotK, though, so it's frustrating for me to have to have other things not only fight FOR me, but fight much more slowly to boot. I find myself avoiding combat as much as possible so I can get to the traversal echo puzzles faster, because that's the part of the game that I thoroughly enjoy.
reply
I want to love everything about Echoes SO BADLY but the combat is just so damn tedious to me. I'm usually pretty aggressive with the melee combat in BotW/TotK, though, so it's frustrating for me to have to have other things not only fight FOR me, but fight much more slowly to boot. I find myself avoiding combat as much as possible so I can get to the traversal echo puzzles faster, because that's the part of the game that I thoroughly enjoy.
reply
a. jthomas6132
A playable Princess Zelda would’ve helped better the Tears of the Kingdom story since it has been divided into two separate time periods with multiple perspectives (Link Zelda. And this is the strongest version of Zelda according to Zelda director Hidemaro Fujibayashi. If we ever get to experienced more of her journey in the Era of Hyrule’s founding and the Imprisoning War, imagined how OP she is with both her Light Time powers.
reply
A playable Princess Zelda would’ve helped better the Tears of the Kingdom story since it has been divided into two separate time periods with multiple perspectives (Link Zelda. And this is the strongest version of Zelda according to Zelda director Hidemaro Fujibayashi. If we ever get to experienced more of her journey in the Era of Hyrule’s founding and the Imprisoning War, imagined how OP she is with both her Light Time powers.
reply
ihappy1
Tears of the Kingdom should have been Zelda's game. I would have much rather stuck with her and had adventures in the past then have her be fridged again just for Link to have to save her again.
Plus ToTK taking place in the past could have justified the sky islands, the underground, and the temples as stuff that existed back then. And all of the Zonai part manipulation and contraption making fits Triforce of Wisdom more than courage.
reply
Tears of the Kingdom should have been Zelda's game. I would have much rather stuck with her and had adventures in the past then have her be fridged again just for Link to have to save her again.
Plus ToTK taking place in the past could have justified the sky islands, the underground, and the temples as stuff that existed back then. And all of the Zonai part manipulation and contraption making fits Triforce of Wisdom more than courage.
reply
Matthordika
Okay, but I think you are severely underselling some of Zelda's roles in the other games. She was not a tool in Spirit Tracks, she was a fully fleshed out character with an arc. It was her journey just as much as Link's. In Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, she is 100% the main character, you play as the support. The story is about her and her growth, the sacrifices she makes to save Hyrule.
reply
Okay, but I think you are severely underselling some of Zelda's roles in the other games. She was not a tool in Spirit Tracks, she was a fully fleshed out character with an arc. It was her journey just as much as Link's. In Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, she is 100% the main character, you play as the support. The story is about her and her growth, the sacrifices she makes to save Hyrule.
reply
put4558350
Well, Zelda 1 was built on Miyamoto experienced as a boy discovered a cave. So Link have to be a boy because it link to young Miyamoto.
Zelda: Echo of wisdom however is a game make to be Zelda Maker (After Mario Maker. likely inspire by Minecraft as map editor. Eiji Aonuma play test it like it put some idea in and it become Zelda: Echo of wisdom. Where place object and monster is key to progress.
reply
Well, Zelda 1 was built on Miyamoto experienced as a boy discovered a cave. So Link have to be a boy because it link to young Miyamoto.
Zelda: Echo of wisdom however is a game make to be Zelda Maker (After Mario Maker. likely inspire by Minecraft as map editor. Eiji Aonuma play test it like it put some idea in and it become Zelda: Echo of wisdom. Where place object and monster is key to progress.
reply
infebris
this is why zelda is a SIDE character, and not a MAIN character. if it was any other character for her spirit form possessing things it would be fine, but just because its zelda, even though you get to see more of her in that game than normal, you still complain that shes a tool for link is link not then just a tool for the player literally nothing will satisfy some people
reply
this is why zelda is a SIDE character, and not a MAIN character. if it was any other character for her spirit form possessing things it would be fine, but just because its zelda, even though you get to see more of her in that game than normal, you still complain that shes a tool for link is link not then just a tool for the player literally nothing will satisfy some people
reply
EinDose
Hyrule Warriors lets you play as fan-requested characters, like Tingle! Oh, and also Zelda, Tetra and Sheik.
Weirdly, out of all those characters I would probably call Tingle the best character in that lineup. He's very good at wide-area cleanup in a way that none of the rest are. (I know tier lists generally disagree with me there, but those are wrong)
reply
Hyrule Warriors lets you play as fan-requested characters, like Tingle! Oh, and also Zelda, Tetra and Sheik.
Weirdly, out of all those characters I would probably call Tingle the best character in that lineup. He's very good at wide-area cleanup in a way that none of the rest are. (I know tier lists generally disagree with me there, but those are wrong)
reply
mmzero406
So strange that Nintendo has only recently started fleshing out side characters-Luigi, Peach, Zelda, Toad-these characters are perfect for experimenting with the franchise while also giving them an identity of their own. Even though they are shallow, I think most people don’t want Mario or Link to change- so I hope Nintendo keeps experimenting like this.
reply
So strange that Nintendo has only recently started fleshing out side characters-Luigi, Peach, Zelda, Toad-these characters are perfect for experimenting with the franchise while also giving them an identity of their own. Even though they are shallow, I think most people don’t want Mario or Link to change- so I hope Nintendo keeps experimenting like this.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
