24 Cores, 48 Threads for 360: Dual-X99 Jingsha Motherboard vs. AMD R9 3900X
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Date: 2020-10-25
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Comments and reviews: 10
Zander
Ayy, I see you've discovered the magic of ES/QS Xeons. This has been a poorly kept secret for a while. The main thing to keep in mind with purchasing such CPU's (aside from passing general reputable seller smell test) is checking the listed stepping of the cpu in question, and checking that with listed launch retail stepping of the same sku. The further removed the stepping of the ES/QS cpu is from the (post)release steppings is, the more likely you are to encounter issues (eg, a B0 stepping ES vs an M0 stepping release is a big delta, whereas L0 vs M0 is much closer, and is effectively a public beta or release candidate, to borrow a software versioning analogy). It's also worth noting that factory base/boost limits may be slightly different than release spec, and as you pointed out, these are/can be unlocked to an extent.
The value prospect of ES/QS is diminished these days now that AMD (and now intel, somewhat) has finally broken out of the 4c/8t paradigm on the consumer side, but if you need cheap multicore, abundant PCIe lanes (w/ PEX/PLX chips), and or abundant memory capacity w/ Registered ECC support, they're still generally a great value. The price of ES/QS chips largely scales with base/boost clocks (eg, E5-2667 v3's will typically go for MUCH more than a E5-2650 v4). In otherwords, for gaming, they're not necessarily ideal (as you've discovered), but for a workstation or cheap whitebox server build (database, memcache, etc), they certainly have their niche.
It's also worth pointing out you can sometimes put E5-16xx and E5-46xx ES/QS CPU's in C602/C612 (depending on Xbridge vs Xwell generations) boards. As I'm sure you've guessed, that'll depend on whether the respective mainboards have the blacklist/whitelist microcode for those. This is worth mentioning as the 4000 series cpu's often go for cheaper than their 2000 or 1000 counterparts as they're only officially supported in 4P-8P type systems (eg, R830) and thus demand is lower. However, I've successfully gotten E5-4627 v2 ES's working in C602 motherboards (Asus z9PE, Dell R620). Afterall there's a difference between Supported and Functional .
All that said, this is a pretty cool board. I'll stick to buying surplus UCS C240 M4S and Dell R630/R730's for now (generally cheaper overall) but it's nice to see that these boards aren't just some scam and actually have a functional purpose in the whitebox homelab space.
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Ayy, I see you've discovered the magic of ES/QS Xeons. This has been a poorly kept secret for a while. The main thing to keep in mind with purchasing such CPU's (aside from passing general reputable seller smell test) is checking the listed stepping of the cpu in question, and checking that with listed launch retail stepping of the same sku. The further removed the stepping of the ES/QS cpu is from the (post)release steppings is, the more likely you are to encounter issues (eg, a B0 stepping ES vs an M0 stepping release is a big delta, whereas L0 vs M0 is much closer, and is effectively a public beta or release candidate, to borrow a software versioning analogy). It's also worth noting that factory base/boost limits may be slightly different than release spec, and as you pointed out, these are/can be unlocked to an extent.
The value prospect of ES/QS is diminished these days now that AMD (and now intel, somewhat) has finally broken out of the 4c/8t paradigm on the consumer side, but if you need cheap multicore, abundant PCIe lanes (w/ PEX/PLX chips), and or abundant memory capacity w/ Registered ECC support, they're still generally a great value. The price of ES/QS chips largely scales with base/boost clocks (eg, E5-2667 v3's will typically go for MUCH more than a E5-2650 v4). In otherwords, for gaming, they're not necessarily ideal (as you've discovered), but for a workstation or cheap whitebox server build (database, memcache, etc), they certainly have their niche.
It's also worth pointing out you can sometimes put E5-16xx and E5-46xx ES/QS CPU's in C602/C612 (depending on Xbridge vs Xwell generations) boards. As I'm sure you've guessed, that'll depend on whether the respective mainboards have the blacklist/whitelist microcode for those. This is worth mentioning as the 4000 series cpu's often go for cheaper than their 2000 or 1000 counterparts as they're only officially supported in 4P-8P type systems (eg, R830) and thus demand is lower. However, I've successfully gotten E5-4627 v2 ES's working in C602 motherboards (Asus z9PE, Dell R620). Afterall there's a difference between Supported and Functional .
All that said, this is a pretty cool board. I'll stick to buying surplus UCS C240 M4S and Dell R630/R730's for now (generally cheaper overall) but it's nice to see that these boards aren't just some scam and actually have a functional purpose in the whitebox homelab space.
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Greg
Something that should be added is that you need to look at the advanced settings and see if there is a setting for NUMA (non uniform memory access). As this setting prevents data sharing across memory banks on multiple processors. I think it would make a huge difference in your results for game tests as well as other benchmarks. Dual socket systems are not easy to configure. They require much research and understanding of the platform. I speak from experience because I run dual 8280 platinum ES processors in my main workstation.
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Something that should be added is that you need to look at the advanced settings and see if there is a setting for NUMA (non uniform memory access). As this setting prevents data sharing across memory banks on multiple processors. I think it would make a huge difference in your results for game tests as well as other benchmarks. Dual socket systems are not easy to configure. They require much research and understanding of the platform. I speak from experience because I run dual 8280 platinum ES processors in my main workstation.
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Keith
If you do not understand why this exists: Very few countries have the ability to design a CPU. If you are on our sanctions list then you might have limited or NO access to buying new CPUs. This creates the market for new boards using recycled chips. The Russian people for example, who have displayed a thriving interest in these parts, do so out of need. Their money does not convert well and other things add up to help create this market for our old hardware.
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If you do not understand why this exists: Very few countries have the ability to design a CPU. If you are on our sanctions list then you might have limited or NO access to buying new CPUs. This creates the market for new boards using recycled chips. The Russian people for example, who have displayed a thriving interest in these parts, do so out of need. Their money does not convert well and other things add up to help create this market for our old hardware.
reply
ctc.Sebi
Hrm, quick question about that setup: Would a hypervisor make a difference with the low fps / stuttering slapped in the middle so to the guest OS it looks like a single cpu with X cores? Like ESXi + Windows 10?
I'm thinking of combining my current old xeon (L5640) lenovo homeserver and my old and trusty 4790k gaming/coding system into one bigger E5 v2 server (so my 128gb ddr3 ecc is still usable) and game via streaming, work via rdp multi-monitor
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Hrm, quick question about that setup: Would a hypervisor make a difference with the low fps / stuttering slapped in the middle so to the guest OS it looks like a single cpu with X cores? Like ESXi + Windows 10?
I'm thinking of combining my current old xeon (L5640) lenovo homeserver and my old and trusty 4790k gaming/coding system into one bigger E5 v2 server (so my 128gb ddr3 ecc is still usable) and game via streaming, work via rdp multi-monitor
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john
Still have my secondary computer as an optiplex + ali xeon ultra budget even after building something more proper. All used parts parts other than 50 evga b stock gt 1030 and was around 130 to build. Honestly still performs better at most tasks than even modern sub 500 laptops or entry level mac's at 1/4th to 1/8th the price since it has more ram ssd and dedicated gpu. Great machine for stuff like web browsing older/indie games emulators etc.
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Still have my secondary computer as an optiplex + ali xeon ultra budget even after building something more proper. All used parts parts other than 50 evga b stock gt 1030 and was around 130 to build. Honestly still performs better at most tasks than even modern sub 500 laptops or entry level mac's at 1/4th to 1/8th the price since it has more ram ssd and dedicated gpu. Great machine for stuff like web browsing older/indie games emulators etc.
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KushFriendlyXeX
The biggest thing if you do this is make sure your Xeons support SSE4.2. My old gaming rig was a Pro Liant G5, worked great for gaming but didn't support SSE4.2. I got a G7 like a year ago so I could play Warzone. Works great but it was really only worth it because I had the RAM and other server parts laying around so I was able to buy the G7 bare bones with just the CPUs.
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The biggest thing if you do this is make sure your Xeons support SSE4.2. My old gaming rig was a Pro Liant G5, worked great for gaming but didn't support SSE4.2. I got a G7 like a year ago so I could play Warzone. Works great but it was really only worth it because I had the RAM and other server parts laying around so I was able to buy the G7 bare bones with just the CPUs.
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JB6789
Dual XEON's are only really useful for specific tasks...the hi latency in gaming makes this dual configuration sub-optimal. Better to stay with a single socket for the E5-2678V3 (12C/24T) if you intend to have multi-purpose uses to include gaming. Pairing with a good GPU up to RTX 2070.
For gaming, you MUST perform the TURBO-Unlock. Getting all core to 3.3.Ghz.
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Dual XEON's are only really useful for specific tasks...the hi latency in gaming makes this dual configuration sub-optimal. Better to stay with a single socket for the E5-2678V3 (12C/24T) if you intend to have multi-purpose uses to include gaming. Pairing with a good GPU up to RTX 2070.
For gaming, you MUST perform the TURBO-Unlock. Getting all core to 3.3.Ghz.
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CrimsonDemonKyo
This appears it would work great for one of the tasks I do. I like putting together little private gaming servers for me and my friends that generally need a min of 2 cores at 2Ghz and 4-8Gb of ram for each server the more cores the less RAM and smoother the connection and I normally have 4-5 servers. this would be 1 machine instead of 5 I have now.
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This appears it would work great for one of the tasks I do. I like putting together little private gaming servers for me and my friends that generally need a min of 2 cores at 2Ghz and 4-8Gb of ram for each server the more cores the less RAM and smoother the connection and I normally have 4-5 servers. this would be 1 machine instead of 5 I have now.
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htlaszy
Chinese Xeon is a good choice, but only in the dirt cheap category. I have an X79 ZD3 + E5-1650 + 4x4GB ECC combo in the workshop. Same price ( 160EUR) like a cheapest AM4 mobo, cheapest Athlon, and a chepest 2x4GB kit, but performs much better. Some of the Xeons are unlocked, like the 1600 series, these are fairly adequate to gaming at 4.0GHz.
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Chinese Xeon is a good choice, but only in the dirt cheap category. I have an X79 ZD3 + E5-1650 + 4x4GB ECC combo in the workshop. Same price ( 160EUR) like a cheapest AM4 mobo, cheapest Athlon, and a chepest 2x4GB kit, but performs much better. Some of the Xeons are unlocked, like the 1600 series, these are fairly adequate to gaming at 4.0GHz.
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Robert
Gamers Nexus: Perhaps the poor game scores were because some threads were being scheduled on different CPUs? Does the Windows scheduler ensure all a games threads have affinity for the same CPU? I presume not and the cross CPU requests for accessing memory belonging to the other CPU were responsible for the poor 1% / stuttering.
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Gamers Nexus: Perhaps the poor game scores were because some threads were being scheduled on different CPUs? Does the Windows scheduler ensure all a games threads have affinity for the same CPU? I presume not and the cross CPU requests for accessing memory belonging to the other CPU were responsible for the poor 1% / stuttering.
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