The Most Annoying Computer Noise - Noctua Engineering Deep-Dive on Case Fans
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Date: 2024-06-25
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Comments and reviews: 20
jamesfox2857
IF You run the fans Full speerd this Noise Goes AWAY as the Speed forces this pressure to be so close it is NO LONGER a oscillating humb but one wave unless your fans are out of Sequence then you can hear it More clearly
and for those that want sound dampening , build a silent box for it as you are no longer into basic use and even during streaming , You can place th Pc Out of Microphone reach
if you are an Acustic engineer = Buil a Quit box or Move pc out of room = ALL you Really Need are Display cables in all due reality = No one N EEDS to SEE Your PC if this is your Business = NO ONE = the pc Holds NO Variable on Your Content creation = Other than Performace its Self !!!
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IF You run the fans Full speerd this Noise Goes AWAY as the Speed forces this pressure to be so close it is NO LONGER a oscillating humb but one wave unless your fans are out of Sequence then you can hear it More clearly
and for those that want sound dampening , build a silent box for it as you are no longer into basic use and even during streaming , You can place th Pc Out of Microphone reach
if you are an Acustic engineer = Buil a Quit box or Move pc out of room = ALL you Really Need are Display cables in all due reality = No one N EEDS to SEE Your PC if this is your Business = NO ONE = the pc Holds NO Variable on Your Content creation = Other than Performace its Self !!!
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jacoblojewski8729
Beat frequencies show up everywhere! Me personally, a very slow beat frequency is much less annoying than a faster beat frequency that is still distinguishable. Beat frequencies are an easy way for musicians to tune their instruments to each other as well - you might still be out of tune, but you're out of tune together so it sounds ok.
An obscure one for you: I worked on a submarine which uses a split electrical system (usually) - so half the machinery was powered off one generator, another half off the other. I would commonly match the frequencies of the two generators by listening to the beat frequencies from all the machinery in the engine room (more accurate than just looking at the frequency meters, since there's an acceptable tolerance on those to how accurate they have to be).
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Beat frequencies show up everywhere! Me personally, a very slow beat frequency is much less annoying than a faster beat frequency that is still distinguishable. Beat frequencies are an easy way for musicians to tune their instruments to each other as well - you might still be out of tune, but you're out of tune together so it sounds ok.
An obscure one for you: I worked on a submarine which uses a split electrical system (usually) - so half the machinery was powered off one generator, another half off the other. I would commonly match the frequencies of the two generators by listening to the beat frequencies from all the machinery in the engine room (more accurate than just looking at the frequency meters, since there's an acceptable tolerance on those to how accurate they have to be).
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gamersnexus
Noctua makes some very nice, high-end kit, and yet some of their fans have peculiar sound signatures. I’ve got Noctuas from 40mm to 140mm in diameter and for instance the 40mm fan, no matter what you do will emit a high pitch buzz at higher rpm. Similarly, the 140mm have a distinct hum. I’ve replaced the 40mm with a Noiseblocker PM-1, which is just better in every way, especially noise. And the 140mm I swapped for a bequiet! one, same story.
I do think their CPU heatsink/fan combos are outstanding, the quality of engineering really shines through there. But for case fans, there are a lot of good alternatives that may work out better for you.
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Noctua makes some very nice, high-end kit, and yet some of their fans have peculiar sound signatures. I’ve got Noctuas from 40mm to 140mm in diameter and for instance the 40mm fan, no matter what you do will emit a high pitch buzz at higher rpm. Similarly, the 140mm have a distinct hum. I’ve replaced the 40mm with a Noiseblocker PM-1, which is just better in every way, especially noise. And the 140mm I swapped for a bequiet! one, same story.
I do think their CPU heatsink/fan combos are outstanding, the quality of engineering really shines through there. But for case fans, there are a lot of good alternatives that may work out better for you.
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DilbertCronicles
Jakob Dellinger brings back memories of my Advance Physics classes in high school.. unfortunately my ability in understanding this topic is like a flatline graph (with Y axis representing level of comprehension). Gave up my plan to become an engineer and went into financial accounting. Retiring end of this year after 35 years as an accountant. As a retirement present for myself, will build a high-end PC build with Noctua products. It's good to know that Noctua have brilliant people behind their products (designing, engineering & production). I'm old school hence didn't mention Marketing. If a product is good, it markets itself!
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Jakob Dellinger brings back memories of my Advance Physics classes in high school.. unfortunately my ability in understanding this topic is like a flatline graph (with Y axis representing level of comprehension). Gave up my plan to become an engineer and went into financial accounting. Retiring end of this year after 35 years as an accountant. As a retirement present for myself, will build a high-end PC build with Noctua products. It's good to know that Noctua have brilliant people behind their products (designing, engineering & production). I'm old school hence didn't mention Marketing. If a product is good, it markets itself!
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AmvC
26:25 1525-1438 sounded the least annoying from my point of hearing right now (relaxed, not stressed, almost no background noise). My tip would be: always evaluate your system's noise when you're calm. Our brains filter out a lot when we're under pressure (some more, some less), but that filtering takes a lot of brain capacity which is why you'll always get more tired/annoyed/distracted in a sound environment that requires a lot of filtering, regardless of wheather you perceive/notice the noises or not. You'll be amazed of what your ears can pick up when your absolutely calm goes for all other senses
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26:25 1525-1438 sounded the least annoying from my point of hearing right now (relaxed, not stressed, almost no background noise). My tip would be: always evaluate your system's noise when you're calm. Our brains filter out a lot when we're under pressure (some more, some less), but that filtering takes a lot of brain capacity which is why you'll always get more tired/annoyed/distracted in a sound environment that requires a lot of filtering, regardless of wheather you perceive/notice the noises or not. You'll be amazed of what your ears can pick up when your absolutely calm goes for all other senses
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newfinishautospa
So a simple way to explain this to everyone so they can relate would be to think about a time when you are driving your vehicle near another vehicle and your engines are running at nearly the same rpm. You can hear both exhausts resonating in and out of phase with each other just like your case fans.
A simple solution would be to adjust your case fans individually and set them with an rpm scale slightly out of phase with each other. If you have 3 rad fans set one to ramp at 50 degrees, the next to ramp at 51, and so on
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So a simple way to explain this to everyone so they can relate would be to think about a time when you are driving your vehicle near another vehicle and your engines are running at nearly the same rpm. You can hear both exhausts resonating in and out of phase with each other just like your case fans.
A simple solution would be to adjust your case fans individually and set them with an rpm scale slightly out of phase with each other. If you have 3 rad fans set one to ramp at 50 degrees, the next to ramp at 51, and so on
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ewenchan1239
Aeroacoustic turbomachinery engineering -- two of the most complicated displines in engineer mixed/working together.
Those CFD runs must have been a PAIN to run, as aeroacoustics require very fine mesh, and therefore; computationally intensive, and then the multiple reference frames for turbomachinery makes it really, really complicated.
(The two disciplines, separately, are already complicated enough, on their own -- but together and more importantly, the INTERACTION between the two -- phew-wee. Yikes!)
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Aeroacoustic turbomachinery engineering -- two of the most complicated displines in engineer mixed/working together.
Those CFD runs must have been a PAIN to run, as aeroacoustics require very fine mesh, and therefore; computationally intensive, and then the multiple reference frames for turbomachinery makes it really, really complicated.
(The two disciplines, separately, are already complicated enough, on their own -- but together and more importantly, the INTERACTION between the two -- phew-wee. Yikes!)
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jimtekkit
I actually stopped using Noctua fans because I had an A14-Chromax that had a constant hum resonance around 610rpm that was 100% reproducable. Every time it was sitting around that speed, you could hear the hum from across the room. I contacted Noctua customer support and they were just like yeah that's normal behavior. It wasn't the last Noctua fan I ever bought but it definitely killed the brand lustre for me when much cheaper fans from brands like Be Quiet have been flawlessly quiet.
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I actually stopped using Noctua fans because I had an A14-Chromax that had a constant hum resonance around 610rpm that was 100% reproducable. Every time it was sitting around that speed, you could hear the hum from across the room. I contacted Noctua customer support and they were just like yeah that's normal behavior. It wasn't the last Noctua fan I ever bought but it definitely killed the brand lustre for me when much cheaper fans from brands like Be Quiet have been flawlessly quiet.
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gamersnexus
So obviously, with decent PWM, it should be possible to ensure destructive interference between all the fans in your PC, even if you have to place a microphone where your head normally is and a period of calibration is needed. It should be able to set the frequency of one fan, then alter the frequency of the others (one by one if needed) to minimise total PC noise. After doing this for a range of frequencies, then any hum or constructive interference should be eliminated.
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So obviously, with decent PWM, it should be possible to ensure destructive interference between all the fans in your PC, even if you have to place a microphone where your head normally is and a period of calibration is needed. It should be able to set the frequency of one fan, then alter the frequency of the others (one by one if needed) to minimise total PC noise. After doing this for a range of frequencies, then any hum or constructive interference should be eliminated.
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admiralspyro9722
I bought arctic fans because in some YT videos they benchmarked almost as good as Noctua, but I quickly noticed their acoustics were far worse because of weird noises like this humming. It's something that is not displayed by sound pressure benchmarks, as they get averaged. Since then I only buy Noctua, I trust this brand more to not only look on steril benchmarks, but also optimize for subjective hearing. Also I am Austrian, so they have my patriotism, haha.
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I bought arctic fans because in some YT videos they benchmarked almost as good as Noctua, but I quickly noticed their acoustics were far worse because of weird noises like this humming. It's something that is not displayed by sound pressure benchmarks, as they get averaged. Since then I only buy Noctua, I trust this brand more to not only look on steril benchmarks, but also optimize for subjective hearing. Also I am Austrian, so they have my patriotism, haha.
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bluephreakr
This makes me wonder if Noctua could incorporate an externally-powered sensor in each of their fans to self-correct by adjusting the speed to match a desired RPM _consistently_ and then recording that offset to a micro-computer. Rather than RGB, Noctua can use the extra wires to incorporate an offset, use software to define which fans are going to what and have the fans adjust speed as necessary until blade spacing offset is correct and speeds match.
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This makes me wonder if Noctua could incorporate an externally-powered sensor in each of their fans to self-correct by adjusting the speed to match a desired RPM _consistently_ and then recording that offset to a micro-computer. Rather than RGB, Noctua can use the extra wires to incorporate an offset, use software to define which fans are going to what and have the fans adjust speed as necessary until blade spacing offset is correct and speeds match.
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gamersnexus
I have a case much similar to this however it is happening in my GPU where at certain fan speeds, the GPU starts displaying a very similar behavior to the one shown in the video where we it goes in and out of alignment causing vibration and noise.
Not sure if this is the case since the fans are mounted side by side and not axially like in a CPU cooler. but the similarity is very close.
Someone knows if GPU fans be individually adjusted
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I have a case much similar to this however it is happening in my GPU where at certain fan speeds, the GPU starts displaying a very similar behavior to the one shown in the video where we it goes in and out of alignment causing vibration and noise.
Not sure if this is the case since the fans are mounted side by side and not axially like in a CPU cooler. but the similarity is very close.
Someone knows if GPU fans be individually adjusted
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Cormy1
No mention of interactions with case fans
There's no reason that 1 CPU cooler fan couldn't interact with the case fans to produce the same effect if both are audible. Or the case fans interacting with themselves to do it regardless of how perfect the CPU cooler fans may be configured.
It's an impossible problem to solve from 1 angle, unless we're just thinking that CPU cooler fans are MUCH louder than any of the others, including GPU fans.
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No mention of interactions with case fans
There's no reason that 1 CPU cooler fan couldn't interact with the case fans to produce the same effect if both are audible. Or the case fans interacting with themselves to do it regardless of how perfect the CPU cooler fans may be configured.
It's an impossible problem to solve from 1 angle, unless we're just thinking that CPU cooler fans are MUCH louder than any of the others, including GPU fans.
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MrPyroblastic
Noctua still makes great PC fans. However in late years they remained way behind the trends when it comes to computer fans and controllers and performance etc. there are simply better fans on the market that perform way better than Noctua. And their lack of interest on development of a powerful fan controller ( both hardware and software ) . How many PC builds have you seen lately using Noctua cooling solutions Only a few here and there
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Noctua still makes great PC fans. However in late years they remained way behind the trends when it comes to computer fans and controllers and performance etc. there are simply better fans on the market that perform way better than Noctua. And their lack of interest on development of a powerful fan controller ( both hardware and software ) . How many PC builds have you seen lately using Noctua cooling solutions Only a few here and there
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lauram5905
It's also a weird phenomena in the HVAC industry I've heard, with all kinds of resonant frequencies interacting from blower fans and ducting, it's that thing you get in certain office buildings where there's a really uncomfortable humming sound and pressure beats when the air is on. Real tricky stuff to stamp out, and some places are happy just to let people go nuts listening to it. Psychoacoustics is a real wild field
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It's also a weird phenomena in the HVAC industry I've heard, with all kinds of resonant frequencies interacting from blower fans and ducting, it's that thing you get in certain office buildings where there's a really uncomfortable humming sound and pressure beats when the air is on. Real tricky stuff to stamp out, and some places are happy just to let people go nuts listening to it. Psychoacoustics is a real wild field
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gamersnexus
Multi engine propeller planes also have issues with this, and with the volume of props, they take pretty big measures to mitigate it, else pilots and passengers go mad.
Some aircraft have an indicator called a synchronizer, and pilots would manually adjust props until it stopped spinning, and the resonant few went away. I’m fairly certain modern modern aircraft just have auto synchros now
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Multi engine propeller planes also have issues with this, and with the volume of props, they take pretty big measures to mitigate it, else pilots and passengers go mad.
Some aircraft have an indicator called a synchronizer, and pilots would manually adjust props until it stopped spinning, and the resonant few went away. I’m fairly certain modern modern aircraft just have auto synchros now
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user-pb9gs8bh4r
Weird. If thermal solution need to create acoustic issues to suppress thermal issues why not just get better thermal handling where it supposed to solve at first place Multi point sound profiling focus on single fan module. Thing is you rarely see any gaming chase out there with singular fan module slot. If you needed multi fan module that install close to each other what would you expect
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Weird. If thermal solution need to create acoustic issues to suppress thermal issues why not just get better thermal handling where it supposed to solve at first place Multi point sound profiling focus on single fan module. Thing is you rarely see any gaming chase out there with singular fan module slot. If you needed multi fan module that install close to each other what would you expect
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anasevi9456
The ultimate solution to this problem is living in a 'Working Class' Aussie neighbourhoods. Half your neighbours will be dysgenic feral bogans, and they will on their porch 24/7 because they have no where better to be. Screaming at eachother and blasting their music from decades of impacted earwax rendering them deaf. You will never notice fan noise again in a negative light.
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The ultimate solution to this problem is living in a 'Working Class' Aussie neighbourhoods. Half your neighbours will be dysgenic feral bogans, and they will on their porch 24/7 because they have no where better to be. Screaming at eachother and blasting their music from decades of impacted earwax rendering them deaf. You will never notice fan noise again in a negative light.
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taiiat0
in my own system, the phenomena i compensate for is it seems like the Case is slightly flexing the housing of some number of the Fans in the system (not sure which ones, hard to tell), which causes them to produce some sort of resonance.
bandaidable with some Rubber or such to shift how the Case sits on the surface to either flex it a different way or correct the flex.
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in my own system, the phenomena i compensate for is it seems like the Case is slightly flexing the housing of some number of the Fans in the system (not sure which ones, hard to tell), which causes them to produce some sort of resonance.
bandaidable with some Rubber or such to shift how the Case sits on the surface to either flex it a different way or correct the flex.
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grunge_fox
Honestly, as someone with very sensitive hearing, I'd say the fast repeating noise is more painful to me, than the long one. The long one seems like something I might get used to, but the fast one would probably drive me crazy after a short while. Which, if I understood it correctly, is actually the opposite of what the Noctua engineer said
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Honestly, as someone with very sensitive hearing, I'd say the fast repeating noise is more painful to me, than the long one. The long one seems like something I might get used to, but the fast one would probably drive me crazy after a short while. Which, if I understood it correctly, is actually the opposite of what the Noctua engineer said
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