Intel At Its Best: Revisiting the i9-12900K, i7-12700K, i5-12600K, 12400, & i3-12100F in 2024
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Date: 2024-11-17
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Comments and reviews: 20
RedundancyDept
Great video as usual, and on a topic that is of particular interest to me, as an Alder Lake owner. I wish you'd tested the differences between DDR4 and DDR5, though. From what I've seen, those numbers are sort of all over the place. At release, for example, most reviewers found a negligible uplift for DDR5. In newer games, however, HUB found that Alder Lake can benefit enormously from DDR5, in some cases to a much larger degree than Raptor Lake.
For me I'm not sure it really matters, because I'm not exactly a cutting edge gamer. But the memory issue seems like a substantial wrinkle in the 'should I or shouldn't I upgrade' discussion. You did touch on this in the conclusion, but direct and contemporary comparisons between DDR4 and DDR5 for Alder Lake are pretty hard to find, so more data would be appreciated.
Anyway, in the general case upgrading from Alder Lake clearly isn't worth it right now. As you say, in-socket options (Raptor) are a mine field, and newer platforms don't offer a performance uplift sufficient to justify their huge cost. People running lower-end Alder can get a pretty good boost out of a cheap 12700 or 12900 right now, though, which is nice. Just have to watch those VRM; some cheaper boards might balk.
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Great video as usual, and on a topic that is of particular interest to me, as an Alder Lake owner. I wish you'd tested the differences between DDR4 and DDR5, though. From what I've seen, those numbers are sort of all over the place. At release, for example, most reviewers found a negligible uplift for DDR5. In newer games, however, HUB found that Alder Lake can benefit enormously from DDR5, in some cases to a much larger degree than Raptor Lake.
For me I'm not sure it really matters, because I'm not exactly a cutting edge gamer. But the memory issue seems like a substantial wrinkle in the 'should I or shouldn't I upgrade' discussion. You did touch on this in the conclusion, but direct and contemporary comparisons between DDR4 and DDR5 for Alder Lake are pretty hard to find, so more data would be appreciated.
Anyway, in the general case upgrading from Alder Lake clearly isn't worth it right now. As you say, in-socket options (Raptor) are a mine field, and newer platforms don't offer a performance uplift sufficient to justify their huge cost. People running lower-end Alder can get a pretty good boost out of a cheap 12700 or 12900 right now, though, which is nice. Just have to watch those VRM; some cheaper boards might balk.
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LilMissMurder3409
I think some perspective is sorely needed here. Raptor Lake's microcode issue is a red herring muddying the waters. 13th Gen is undeniably a better architecture than Alder Lake, the same way 14th is better than 13th. While clock-for-clock IPC on the P-cores is a dead heat, each successive gen is more power efficient, significantly so when you compare RL-Refresh to Alder Lake. The microcode issues were often BIOS and chipset-dependent (B- and H-series chipsets mostly immunized your CPU because if their inherent voltage bondage-and-discipline). What I'm getting at is that the microcode issues are an arbitrary side-show that has nothing to do with the fundamental architecture; Alder Lake could have easily been affected in the same way had the stars aligned differently, if you follow me.
A B760 owner who's CPU never received voltage spikes objectively had a better system than the equivalent Alder Lake. They didn't have a _worse_ system than Alder lake simply because _somebody else's_ bleeding-edge Z790 was zapping the CPU, did they Of course not.
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I think some perspective is sorely needed here. Raptor Lake's microcode issue is a red herring muddying the waters. 13th Gen is undeniably a better architecture than Alder Lake, the same way 14th is better than 13th. While clock-for-clock IPC on the P-cores is a dead heat, each successive gen is more power efficient, significantly so when you compare RL-Refresh to Alder Lake. The microcode issues were often BIOS and chipset-dependent (B- and H-series chipsets mostly immunized your CPU because if their inherent voltage bondage-and-discipline). What I'm getting at is that the microcode issues are an arbitrary side-show that has nothing to do with the fundamental architecture; Alder Lake could have easily been affected in the same way had the stars aligned differently, if you follow me.
A B760 owner who's CPU never received voltage spikes objectively had a better system than the equivalent Alder Lake. They didn't have a _worse_ system than Alder lake simply because _somebody else's_ bleeding-edge Z790 was zapping the CPU, did they Of course not.
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Texas_1985
This is yet another example where gamer's nexus takes some fairly recent CPUs runs them at stock frequencies with slow ass RAM on a test bench, autoruns 1080p game benchmarks, auto generates graphs, dumps it into their Adobe Premier template, and gives half assed commentary. There's just so much more interesting and frankly useful videos you guys could be posting. What improvements have been made for AMD/Nvidia drivers What CPU bottlenecks a 4070, 4080, or 4090 at 1440P or at 4K How well can the current generation of CPUs overclock, what's the best bang for the buck CPU if you're overclocking What generation of CPU owners should be upgrading What GPUs are obsolete for new AAA titles What's the best RAM kit to buy in terms of price to performance I can think of at least a dozen videos that would be more interesting than a re-review of Alderlake. I use to look forward to seeing your videos show up in my feed, now it's just so cringe.
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This is yet another example where gamer's nexus takes some fairly recent CPUs runs them at stock frequencies with slow ass RAM on a test bench, autoruns 1080p game benchmarks, auto generates graphs, dumps it into their Adobe Premier template, and gives half assed commentary. There's just so much more interesting and frankly useful videos you guys could be posting. What improvements have been made for AMD/Nvidia drivers What CPU bottlenecks a 4070, 4080, or 4090 at 1440P or at 4K How well can the current generation of CPUs overclock, what's the best bang for the buck CPU if you're overclocking What generation of CPU owners should be upgrading What GPUs are obsolete for new AAA titles What's the best RAM kit to buy in terms of price to performance I can think of at least a dozen videos that would be more interesting than a re-review of Alderlake. I use to look forward to seeing your videos show up in my feed, now it's just so cringe.
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JJFX-
Have you guys done a video yet showing the gains highly tuned memory can have on chips for these platforms Not just faster kits but configs only achievable with a manual OC to showcase the 'best', fairly realistic potential memory could have on different chips.
For example on AM5, 2x16/2x24GB DDR5-6400 C28 in 1:1 or 7800/8000 C34 in 1:2 with tightened timings and Geardown/Powerdown modes disabled. FCLK would be 21332200 MHz.
Same idea for Intel but it's typically even more important for AMD. Less so for X3D in many cases but that's why such a chart could be helpful for people. Similar to why you put the LN2 result in this video. Even though not everyone could even run such settings it's a best case scenario to show how much it even matters.
You wouldn't need to spend too much time ensuring 100% stability, just enough to know if it's producing consistent results.
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Have you guys done a video yet showing the gains highly tuned memory can have on chips for these platforms Not just faster kits but configs only achievable with a manual OC to showcase the 'best', fairly realistic potential memory could have on different chips.
For example on AM5, 2x16/2x24GB DDR5-6400 C28 in 1:1 or 7800/8000 C34 in 1:2 with tightened timings and Geardown/Powerdown modes disabled. FCLK would be 21332200 MHz.
Same idea for Intel but it's typically even more important for AMD. Less so for X3D in many cases but that's why such a chart could be helpful for people. Similar to why you put the LN2 result in this video. Even though not everyone could even run such settings it's a best case scenario to show how much it even matters.
You wouldn't need to spend too much time ensuring 100% stability, just enough to know if it's producing consistent results.
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1SaG
21:20 ... just keep using it.
Exactly. If you don't mind the risk, you also might want to consider an in-socket upgrade to 13th or 14th gen. Just make sure you have those latest BIOS-updates installed and that you don't go crazy with the power-settings. I went from a 12600K to a 14700KF on a Z690, DDR4 platform shortly after 14th gen had come out and I'm very happy with the overall performance, uplift and stability (zero issues, so far). I currently see no need to upgrade as the i7 is already plenty fast and switching to an LGA1700, DDR5-platform would be rather silly as DDR5 still doesn't seem to offer that much more performance over DDR4. Plus it looks like it'll be until end of December before regular (non-scalper) vendors over here get the 9800 X3D in stock, so ...
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21:20 ... just keep using it.
Exactly. If you don't mind the risk, you also might want to consider an in-socket upgrade to 13th or 14th gen. Just make sure you have those latest BIOS-updates installed and that you don't go crazy with the power-settings. I went from a 12600K to a 14700KF on a Z690, DDR4 platform shortly after 14th gen had come out and I'm very happy with the overall performance, uplift and stability (zero issues, so far). I currently see no need to upgrade as the i7 is already plenty fast and switching to an LGA1700, DDR5-platform would be rather silly as DDR5 still doesn't seem to offer that much more performance over DDR4. Plus it looks like it'll be until end of December before regular (non-scalper) vendors over here get the 9800 X3D in stock, so ...
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zubiddydoodoopop
I'm content with my 12900ks. It often doesn't get mentioned, being just a slightly overclocked version of the regular model. But it is good to know I have an extra 500mhz of overhead for future games if the power is needed. I cap mine at 5ghz to keep it nice and healthy and since it was only $200 second hand new in box I feel like I got a steal of a deal with how much people are paying for the newer stuff and it still has DDR5 and pcie5 support. It seems to have been upgraded too because it now supports my 7200MT DDR5 ram at full speed no problem when it was originally rated for 5000MT. I probably won't consider upgrading again until the PS6 has a couple years under its belt with how easily it handles everything I'm throwing at it now
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I'm content with my 12900ks. It often doesn't get mentioned, being just a slightly overclocked version of the regular model. But it is good to know I have an extra 500mhz of overhead for future games if the power is needed. I cap mine at 5ghz to keep it nice and healthy and since it was only $200 second hand new in box I feel like I got a steal of a deal with how much people are paying for the newer stuff and it still has DDR5 and pcie5 support. It seems to have been upgraded too because it now supports my 7200MT DDR5 ram at full speed no problem when it was originally rated for 5000MT. I probably won't consider upgrading again until the PS6 has a couple years under its belt with how easily it handles everything I'm throwing at it now
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kuyache2
The bad thing is when you realize that you bought a DOA platform and no upgrade is available on socket 1700 while everyone who bought a Ryzen 7500f/7600 has broad and bright upgrade future! Heck even those who bought budget AM4 are still given lots of upgrade options to more cores or X3D's till now... Anyone who has Intel 12th gen just needs to enjoy their computer but their next upgrade is definitely an AMD until Intel get their $#1T together and beat the latest X3D chips that AMD keeps pumping out to dominate... I dont believe in upgrades though and its a little too late for 12th gen purchase unless its really really bargain cheap so yeah current dream is an 8700G so it will still be useful when I finally go AM6...
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The bad thing is when you realize that you bought a DOA platform and no upgrade is available on socket 1700 while everyone who bought a Ryzen 7500f/7600 has broad and bright upgrade future! Heck even those who bought budget AM4 are still given lots of upgrade options to more cores or X3D's till now... Anyone who has Intel 12th gen just needs to enjoy their computer but their next upgrade is definitely an AMD until Intel get their $#1T together and beat the latest X3D chips that AMD keeps pumping out to dominate... I dont believe in upgrades though and its a little too late for 12th gen purchase unless its really really bargain cheap so yeah current dream is an 8700G so it will still be useful when I finally go AM6...
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skar.696
Pre-ordered my 12900k here in the UK when they launched with brand new (at the time) DDR5 6000 memory and an Asus z690 hero mobo, still running it. Gaming on 4k, so probably won't even have to upgrade for a little while. Happy with the combo and I did smile every time a new generation of intel CPU's launched, because the performance increase was so small, that I didn't feel like I had to get them to stay viable. Thank you intel for sucking in the last 2-3 years. :) If they can't figure out the issues with the new 1851 CPU's and pump up the numbers, I will probably for the very first time go with AMD for my upgrade.
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Pre-ordered my 12900k here in the UK when they launched with brand new (at the time) DDR5 6000 memory and an Asus z690 hero mobo, still running it. Gaming on 4k, so probably won't even have to upgrade for a little while. Happy with the combo and I did smile every time a new generation of intel CPU's launched, because the performance increase was so small, that I didn't feel like I had to get them to stay viable. Thank you intel for sucking in the last 2-3 years. :) If they can't figure out the issues with the new 1851 CPU's and pump up the numbers, I will probably for the very first time go with AMD for my upgrade.
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gamersnexus
I like that Steve OCCASIONALLY says a 14700k might be an option.
It didn’t get the manufacturing defects, there have been microcode adjustments since then, and you can undervolt the VCORE to 1.2V or a little less when idle /low load, whilst retaining much of it’s performance. Sale prices aren’t bad.
I have a single core R24 score of 130 and I think 1800ish for multicore, and it’s possible to undervolt it so it’s using less than 100 watts most of the time (i’ve had 75watts for all cores). Currently boosts to 170watts. Stays coolish around 66-68C working hard, 40s for less demanding games.
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I like that Steve OCCASIONALLY says a 14700k might be an option.
It didn’t get the manufacturing defects, there have been microcode adjustments since then, and you can undervolt the VCORE to 1.2V or a little less when idle /low load, whilst retaining much of it’s performance. Sale prices aren’t bad.
I have a single core R24 score of 130 and I think 1800ish for multicore, and it’s possible to undervolt it so it’s using less than 100 watts most of the time (i’ve had 75watts for all cores). Currently boosts to 170watts. Stays coolish around 66-68C working hard, 40s for less demanding games.
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toufusoup
This video is awesome in a bittersweet way. Not only showing off that 12th Gen truly was a marvel, but also what could have been the 13th Gen if it wasn’t for the fact Intel fumbled the bag with the instability. Seeing my 13700K up there beating out the 12900K and being competitive was great to see but.. man. I’m unsure how damaged it is as of now. The BIOS update did actually stop my Windows from soft-locking, and my brother’s 13600K was affected, and that’s apparently rare. Thanks for the hard work as always though, great watch
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This video is awesome in a bittersweet way. Not only showing off that 12th Gen truly was a marvel, but also what could have been the 13th Gen if it wasn’t for the fact Intel fumbled the bag with the instability. Seeing my 13700K up there beating out the 12900K and being competitive was great to see but.. man. I’m unsure how damaged it is as of now. The BIOS update did actually stop my Windows from soft-locking, and my brother’s 13600K was affected, and that’s apparently rare. Thanks for the hard work as always though, great watch
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Forke13
I misgambled :D
I bought a temporary solutiom 12400F and wanted to wait for 14th gen to push prices on the 13700K below 280.
Of course the rest of my system is built for the 13700K or bigger parts with a 250W cooler, z690 motherboard and 6950 XT I got a deal on last year.
With the stability issues I don't feel confident going for 13th or 14th gen at all. I was planning to use it for 5 years. Now I might bite the bullet and wait for a few more years and do a full platform upgrade to a 9800X3D when it's under 300
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I misgambled :D
I bought a temporary solutiom 12400F and wanted to wait for 14th gen to push prices on the 13700K below 280.
Of course the rest of my system is built for the 13700K or bigger parts with a 250W cooler, z690 motherboard and 6950 XT I got a deal on last year.
With the stability issues I don't feel confident going for 13th or 14th gen at all. I was planning to use it for 5 years. Now I might bite the bullet and wait for a few more years and do a full platform upgrade to a 9800X3D when it's under 300
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gamersnexus
I'm so glad I went 12th Gen 12700K and not 13th gen when I had the option to choose. Who would've ever saw such a disaster coming
I paried this with a 4060TI 3x Ventus, and 64 GB of DDR5 6000Mhz WAM. I kind of regret getting an MSI motherboard (MPG Z790 Edge), because it won't let me overclock and use the full 6000Mhz without blue screening. The MOBO defultively it caps the wam 5600Mhz. Despite that, I haven't experienced any issues regarding the 12700K itself.
If only Windows 11 was as good as my PC...
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I'm so glad I went 12th Gen 12700K and not 13th gen when I had the option to choose. Who would've ever saw such a disaster coming
I paried this with a 4060TI 3x Ventus, and 64 GB of DDR5 6000Mhz WAM. I kind of regret getting an MSI motherboard (MPG Z790 Edge), because it won't let me overclock and use the full 6000Mhz without blue screening. The MOBO defultively it caps the wam 5600Mhz. Despite that, I haven't experienced any issues regarding the 12700K itself.
If only Windows 11 was as good as my PC...
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Mattvbro
I recently upgraded from a 10400f system the the new 265k and so far im pretty impressed with it aye. other than the fact i could of got an equivalent thing cheaper obviously.
Its my first ddr5 system and man surprised how much you can overclock just the cheap stuff, got a cheap teamgroup 6000mt cl38 kit running good at 7400mt cl32.
BUT the one thing i can actually fault is the fact i CANNOT play rust or fortnight as these both just crash/freeze the whole pc once the EAC loading bar reaches 100%
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I recently upgraded from a 10400f system the the new 265k and so far im pretty impressed with it aye. other than the fact i could of got an equivalent thing cheaper obviously.
Its my first ddr5 system and man surprised how much you can overclock just the cheap stuff, got a cheap teamgroup 6000mt cl38 kit running good at 7400mt cl32.
BUT the one thing i can actually fault is the fact i CANNOT play rust or fortnight as these both just crash/freeze the whole pc once the EAC loading bar reaches 100%
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gosuprime
I had a 12700f before getting a 7800x3D bundle which was too good to pass up: did I NEED to upgrade Not desperately, but the gaming uplift was massive. Alder Lake was a good gen, Intel need to get back to this type of stuff as it was fairly efficient at 65W on the 12700 non-k, and a good performer. That said, these CPUs are still worth it at deep discounts now, Intel hasn't always had issues and Alder Lake was 100% stable, for my general use (games and some productivity).
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I had a 12700f before getting a 7800x3D bundle which was too good to pass up: did I NEED to upgrade Not desperately, but the gaming uplift was massive. Alder Lake was a good gen, Intel need to get back to this type of stuff as it was fairly efficient at 65W on the 12700 non-k, and a good performer. That said, these CPUs are still worth it at deep discounts now, Intel hasn't always had issues and Alder Lake was 100% stable, for my general use (games and some productivity).
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Krynis
while not the topic of this video it was still fun to see how my choices stacked up, in july of 2023 I swapped a 9700k for a 13700k, I was lucky enough to avoid all of the issues related to it, at this point MOST of the time my 4080 limits the cpu not the other way around, perhaps when we eventually get yet another 3D chip after the 9 series I will do a full swap, the 9800X3D is outragously good but most of that is probably wasted on my 4080.
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while not the topic of this video it was still fun to see how my choices stacked up, in july of 2023 I swapped a 9700k for a 13700k, I was lucky enough to avoid all of the issues related to it, at this point MOST of the time my 4080 limits the cpu not the other way around, perhaps when we eventually get yet another 3D chip after the 9 series I will do a full swap, the 9800X3D is outragously good but most of that is probably wasted on my 4080.
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lolakyle8
I purposefully build my PC with 11th Gen Intel back when 12th Gen came out (mostly because of PCIe 4.0 x16 slot compared to 3.0 on 10th Gen) and I can say that I'm almost regret my decision. I don't really like buying new stuff, as they aren't proven by time (yet), and we can see how Intel screwed up with 13th and 14th Gen.
And, yes, I'm still using 1080p monitor, with TN panel, and still going strong for 8 years!
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I purposefully build my PC with 11th Gen Intel back when 12th Gen came out (mostly because of PCIe 4.0 x16 slot compared to 3.0 on 10th Gen) and I can say that I'm almost regret my decision. I don't really like buying new stuff, as they aren't proven by time (yet), and we can see how Intel screwed up with 13th and 14th Gen.
And, yes, I'm still using 1080p monitor, with TN panel, and still going strong for 8 years!
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FaizAnsari
So, does it make sense for me to upgrade from i5 12400 to i7 12700k I have a Z690 board. Planning to upgrade to rx 7800XT (or something similar) from rx 6600 at 1080p. Or is it better to just upgrade from 1080p to 1440p with 7800xt instead of buying a i7 12700k The price is similar for both the processor upgrade and monitor upgrade. i5 12600k does not seem to be worth it, compared to i5 12400.
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So, does it make sense for me to upgrade from i5 12400 to i7 12700k I have a Z690 board. Planning to upgrade to rx 7800XT (or something similar) from rx 6600 at 1080p. Or is it better to just upgrade from 1080p to 1440p with 7800xt instead of buying a i7 12700k The price is similar for both the processor upgrade and monitor upgrade. i5 12600k does not seem to be worth it, compared to i5 12400.
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freakinschweeet
Man I would love to see a CPU benchmark without a 4090. A 4070 Ti would be a more reasonable GPU for consumers to relate with. I want to see GPU bounded workloads to expose the true cutoff line in the CPU ranks. If a game is GPU bound, does it really matter what CPU is used Can a 12400 send enough frames to a 4070 Ti This may vary by game but I feel like it is a more useful test.
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Man I would love to see a CPU benchmark without a 4090. A 4070 Ti would be a more reasonable GPU for consumers to relate with. I want to see GPU bounded workloads to expose the true cutoff line in the CPU ranks. If a game is GPU bound, does it really matter what CPU is used Can a 12400 send enough frames to a 4070 Ti This may vary by game but I feel like it is a more useful test.
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white_shadow_123
So glad I got 12700F when I did. I wanted to get 5600x, but it was around 300 euros and it, kind of, didn't make sense at that price, so I waited a bit and when 12700 came out it was significant improvement for around the same 300. Didn't have a single problem since I got it. I'm even cooling it with an Artic Freezer 34, doesn't go over 85 in Cinebench.
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So glad I got 12700F when I did. I wanted to get 5600x, but it was around 300 euros and it, kind of, didn't make sense at that price, so I waited a bit and when 12700 came out it was significant improvement for around the same 300. Didn't have a single problem since I got it. I'm even cooling it with an Artic Freezer 34, doesn't go over 85 in Cinebench.
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actually404
For those interested in building new systems with 12th gen right now, FYI the memory controllers on 12th gen are not as good as the ones on the 13/14th gen. Stick to low/mid 6000s, or if you are planning on doing in-socket upgrade to 13/14th gen down the road, you could get faster RAM with additional lower speed XMP profiles.
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For those interested in building new systems with 12th gen right now, FYI the memory controllers on 12th gen are not as good as the ones on the 13/14th gen. Stick to low/mid 6000s, or if you are planning on doing in-socket upgrade to 13/14th gen down the road, you could get faster RAM with additional lower speed XMP profiles.
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