Comet Lake confusion, Jensens' RTX rant, best $500 budget build and more - The Full Nerd ep. 103
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
TheDarthTux
I am totally on Gordon' side of the RTX argument here. If you're buying cards expecting to keep them for 4-5years (and IMHO you should be if spending $500+ on a GPU) then you definitely want extra features even if they aren't widely used in the short term. There are a lot of PC gamers still using Maxwell and older GPUs so hold cards for 4+ years is normal. Even argument that, -AMD talked about async compute as the future and only now are DX12 and Vulkan games coming out using it- doesn't really hold because if you bought an AMD card and held it you will be gradually seeing more games supporting async compute now. I mean if you bought a Vega 56/64 you would not be upgrading to an RX 5700(XT, it makes little sense; you'd be waiting till at least Navi 20.
The issue with tech features in GPUs (especially relating to APIs) is that developers and game studios have been lazy and refused to move to the newer APIs and Microsoft didn't force their hands by ending support for Windows 7 earlier than the planned January 2020. Becasue pc games are about the lowest OS and hardware common denominator, not ending Windows 7 earlier probably gave devs and studios excuses to continue focusing on DX11 and ignoring DX12 or Vulkan or treating them as after thoughts for bad ports.
Also agree with Gordon on the 60hz + eye candy thing. Personally would rather play games at 4K+HDR+extras like ray tracing at 60fps, than play games at 1440p or lower resolutions at 240hz. Personal preference, but just find the image quality is far too jarring at 1440p or 1080p to be overcome by high frame rates. Unless you're gaming on smaller sized monitors, like 24 inch or below, the pixel density delta between 4K and lower resolutions on the same screen size is very noticable and the viewing distance will also have to increase at the lower pixel density. 1080p and 1440p on a laptop is fine but not on 27inch+ displays
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I am totally on Gordon' side of the RTX argument here. If you're buying cards expecting to keep them for 4-5years (and IMHO you should be if spending $500+ on a GPU) then you definitely want extra features even if they aren't widely used in the short term. There are a lot of PC gamers still using Maxwell and older GPUs so hold cards for 4+ years is normal. Even argument that, -AMD talked about async compute as the future and only now are DX12 and Vulkan games coming out using it- doesn't really hold because if you bought an AMD card and held it you will be gradually seeing more games supporting async compute now. I mean if you bought a Vega 56/64 you would not be upgrading to an RX 5700(XT, it makes little sense; you'd be waiting till at least Navi 20.
The issue with tech features in GPUs (especially relating to APIs) is that developers and game studios have been lazy and refused to move to the newer APIs and Microsoft didn't force their hands by ending support for Windows 7 earlier than the planned January 2020. Becasue pc games are about the lowest OS and hardware common denominator, not ending Windows 7 earlier probably gave devs and studios excuses to continue focusing on DX11 and ignoring DX12 or Vulkan or treating them as after thoughts for bad ports.
Also agree with Gordon on the 60hz + eye candy thing. Personally would rather play games at 4K+HDR+extras like ray tracing at 60fps, than play games at 1440p or lower resolutions at 240hz. Personal preference, but just find the image quality is far too jarring at 1440p or 1080p to be overcome by high frame rates. Unless you're gaming on smaller sized monitors, like 24 inch or below, the pixel density delta between 4K and lower resolutions on the same screen size is very noticable and the viewing distance will also have to increase at the lower pixel density. 1080p and 1440p on a laptop is fine but not on 27inch+ displays
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Nocturnal101
Intel's greatest enemy is not AMD, its their own marketing department.
The naming and product convention they use is just incredibly mindboggling but it is a product of another Intel Problem.
Useless, Excessive tiering of products and creating lines no one asked for nor ever wanted, the market doesn't need 10, 000 different CPU options for the sake of marketing and product stacking in a corporate need to create pricing tiers.
Jensen actually does have some merit to what he is stating, but I would only say for 2070, 2080, and 2080ti level of cards, the oxymoron is there is no other alternative other than older NVidia cards, in which case you might be crazy for buying a non-raytracing card. Now for people buying Vector->Rasterization with Scanline rendering-> Ray tracing
Somewhere in there if you want include Radiosity, Ray Casting/Path Tracing as other thrown around types.
Now 3000 series 7nm UVL/EUV. -. I would think you may have a buyers remorse if you didn't buy something capable of RT. DIe shrink Performance and/or TDP, and a much finer process lithography with more cherry picked premium dies and low defect yields per wafer. they should be cheaper and better.
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Intel's greatest enemy is not AMD, its their own marketing department.
The naming and product convention they use is just incredibly mindboggling but it is a product of another Intel Problem.
Useless, Excessive tiering of products and creating lines no one asked for nor ever wanted, the market doesn't need 10, 000 different CPU options for the sake of marketing and product stacking in a corporate need to create pricing tiers.
Jensen actually does have some merit to what he is stating, but I would only say for 2070, 2080, and 2080ti level of cards, the oxymoron is there is no other alternative other than older NVidia cards, in which case you might be crazy for buying a non-raytracing card. Now for people buying Vector->Rasterization with Scanline rendering-> Ray tracing
Somewhere in there if you want include Radiosity, Ray Casting/Path Tracing as other thrown around types.
Now 3000 series 7nm UVL/EUV. -. I would think you may have a buyers remorse if you didn't buy something capable of RT. DIe shrink Performance and/or TDP, and a much finer process lithography with more cherry picked premium dies and low defect yields per wafer. they should be cheaper and better.
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pr0xZen
Seem quick to forget where people were coming from, those few months around the RTX 20-series announcement and launch. 1080 Ti was priced really sweet for the first few months. Then something kinda happened and for -_over a bloody year, almost a year and a half, _- a 1080 Ti cost 15 hundred f-cking dollars. If you could even find one. And around the announcement and preorders of the 20-series - a 1080 Ti was like 550, 600 at most, every other day. You could not even preorder a 2070 for that. Half a year after launch, still not a single bloody game supporting RTX ray tracing. People had every reason in the world to stay FAAAAR away from the RTX cards - unless you absolutely wanted the brute performance of the 2080 Ti. For the price of -two- 1080 Tis _and_ a 1TB NVMe drive.
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Seem quick to forget where people were coming from, those few months around the RTX 20-series announcement and launch. 1080 Ti was priced really sweet for the first few months. Then something kinda happened and for -_over a bloody year, almost a year and a half, _- a 1080 Ti cost 15 hundred f-cking dollars. If you could even find one. And around the announcement and preorders of the 20-series - a 1080 Ti was like 550, 600 at most, every other day. You could not even preorder a 2070 for that. Half a year after launch, still not a single bloody game supporting RTX ray tracing. People had every reason in the world to stay FAAAAR away from the RTX cards - unless you absolutely wanted the brute performance of the 2080 Ti. For the price of -two- 1080 Tis _and_ a 1TB NVMe drive.
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gr33nbits
Brad single ram stick is really going to hurt the build hard, i like all the other components, oh Brad you really failed there and on other stuff you talked about, the RAM i really can't let that slide through, there are some components that could be better picked, i know it's a fixed budget but still you talk on some stuff like the PSU 80+ Bronze and other stuff and go with a single stick(you could had got a same price board with 4 ram slots and fix that issue with 2x8gb, well to be honest i thought you were more tech savvy, Gordon build was good too but going with A320 is a miss too, seems you guys were looking more at the budget then really at the components and their longevity and performance, Alaina build was good, Adam wins.
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Brad single ram stick is really going to hurt the build hard, i like all the other components, oh Brad you really failed there and on other stuff you talked about, the RAM i really can't let that slide through, there are some components that could be better picked, i know it's a fixed budget but still you talk on some stuff like the PSU 80+ Bronze and other stuff and go with a single stick(you could had got a same price board with 4 ram slots and fix that issue with 2x8gb, well to be honest i thought you were more tech savvy, Gordon build was good too but going with A320 is a miss too, seems you guys were looking more at the budget then really at the components and their longevity and performance, Alaina build was good, Adam wins.
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blowncold1
Unregistered win10 = no customsations (dark mode, scaling, theming) which matters in build 1903 dark room and light theme, can you say blowout. And on used motherboard, isn't the win10 OEM product tied to the board? If so, wouldn't installing win10 and logging in with microsoft account auto register it? In the end, pay $190 for full retail win10 Pro and take it to every rebuild in the future (P. C. answer, or spend $35 for 5 systems over last 6 years on ebay product keys (my choice.
I also believe most 1st builds had a previous machine, either hand-me-down, parents bought, etc. So its usually an -I could do it better my way- situation. 4 year old machine, reuse the case, possible the PSU. Ram is more than likely DDR4.
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Unregistered win10 = no customsations (dark mode, scaling, theming) which matters in build 1903 dark room and light theme, can you say blowout. And on used motherboard, isn't the win10 OEM product tied to the board? If so, wouldn't installing win10 and logging in with microsoft account auto register it? In the end, pay $190 for full retail win10 Pro and take it to every rebuild in the future (P. C. answer, or spend $35 for 5 systems over last 6 years on ebay product keys (my choice.
I also believe most 1st builds had a previous machine, either hand-me-down, parents bought, etc. So its usually an -I could do it better my way- situation. 4 year old machine, reuse the case, possible the PSU. Ram is more than likely DDR4.
reply
Max
I like the 3800X cpu and the 3900X should be someone who needs a TR for the I/O. If RT goes to the CPU in the new DX a 3900X with 4-6 cores to game and 2-4 cores for other processes and 4 cores to RT, then a 3900X to game makes good sinse. A 5800XT (in the fall) and 3900X with RT on the cpu is going to be the gamer KING. Sony and MS are going to AMD APUs with Navi graphics and promise RT. MS is going to tailor DX to use CPU core for RT. A 5800XT at 2070 Super prices and near 2080S performance will be KING. A 12 core 3900X with a little AM4 socket and 4 spare cores to push DX core RT will be KING. That's $1000 for CPU/GPU that tops an Nvidia RTX 2080S in RT Gaming. And a 2080S cost how much?
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I like the 3800X cpu and the 3900X should be someone who needs a TR for the I/O. If RT goes to the CPU in the new DX a 3900X with 4-6 cores to game and 2-4 cores for other processes and 4 cores to RT, then a 3900X to game makes good sinse. A 5800XT (in the fall) and 3900X with RT on the cpu is going to be the gamer KING. Sony and MS are going to AMD APUs with Navi graphics and promise RT. MS is going to tailor DX to use CPU core for RT. A 5800XT at 2070 Super prices and near 2080S performance will be KING. A 12 core 3900X with a little AM4 socket and 4 spare cores to push DX core RT will be KING. That's $1000 for CPU/GPU that tops an Nvidia RTX 2080S in RT Gaming. And a 2080S cost how much?
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Kenchan1337
i'm a huge nay sayer when it comes to ray tracing for now, but come on gordon we all know that anyone who said ray tracing wasn't going anywhere is short sighted beyond believe. don't go for that easy win, it's too easy.
the hate that followed the RTX launch is simply because of nvidia growing RTX on the backs of users who buy into it now when it's basicly still in pre-alpha phase.
in jensen's defense though: if they waited longer RTX arrival and the inevitable waiting period for RTX to catch on would've been that much later.
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i'm a huge nay sayer when it comes to ray tracing for now, but come on gordon we all know that anyone who said ray tracing wasn't going anywhere is short sighted beyond believe. don't go for that easy win, it's too easy.
the hate that followed the RTX launch is simply because of nvidia growing RTX on the backs of users who buy into it now when it's basicly still in pre-alpha phase.
in jensen's defense though: if they waited longer RTX arrival and the inevitable waiting period for RTX to catch on would've been that much later.
reply
Kyle
I just bought parts for someone Friday, went for best for the money parts not a hard price cap. Ended right around $600. 8gb video card is a must for me it you plan to play AAA games.
16 gb 3000mhz ram, 660p ssd, decent mesh case, thermaltake smart PSU, 2600, b450, rx 580 8gb. Stuff like the case and PSU you'll reuse for a long time, I think it's worth spending a bit more. I'd upgrade to ryzen 4000 and add new gpu in the next coming years. Good to go.
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I just bought parts for someone Friday, went for best for the money parts not a hard price cap. Ended right around $600. 8gb video card is a must for me it you plan to play AAA games.
16 gb 3000mhz ram, 660p ssd, decent mesh case, thermaltake smart PSU, 2600, b450, rx 580 8gb. Stuff like the case and PSU you'll reuse for a long time, I think it's worth spending a bit more. I'd upgrade to ryzen 4000 and add new gpu in the next coming years. Good to go.
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Michael
My whole pc I built used 6 months ago and I love it. I got an 8600k for $100 a z370 Gaming 7 for $100 and instead of a 2080 super. YES I got an EVGA 1080ti hybrid for $420. Liquid cooled never overheated, great value. Just last week I sold the mobo and cpu for $300 and grabbed a z390 Aorus Master and 9900k for $535. But buying used this time gave me a really nice pc for a very good price.
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My whole pc I built used 6 months ago and I love it. I got an 8600k for $100 a z370 Gaming 7 for $100 and instead of a 2080 super. YES I got an EVGA 1080ti hybrid for $420. Liquid cooled never overheated, great value. Just last week I sold the mobo and cpu for $300 and grabbed a z390 Aorus Master and 9900k for $535. But buying used this time gave me a really nice pc for a very good price.
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Purple
Allow me to play devil's advocate. If you are so broke that you only have $500 to buy a gaming PC, should you even? I'm not saying you shouldn't have a computer but a used low end system with integrated graphics can be had for $200. If all you have is $500, for the love of God, please don't spend it on a gaming PC. There are much more important things in life than gaming.
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Allow me to play devil's advocate. If you are so broke that you only have $500 to buy a gaming PC, should you even? I'm not saying you shouldn't have a computer but a used low end system with integrated graphics can be had for $200. If all you have is $500, for the love of God, please don't spend it on a gaming PC. There are much more important things in life than gaming.
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