14th-Gen Meteor Lake Could Use The Same Socket...
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If memory also serves, the delays with 14nm were so bad that Broadwell was delayed again and was finally released only 2 months before Skylake, with Skylake being a new socket (LGA1151) to better take advantage of the newer architecture vs Broadwell being on the older socket that it was originally designed for.
Date: 2022-10-22
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Comments and reviews: 14
MarcasswellbMD
People are still enjoying the AM4 platform, High end gamer's that put up the money for 5900X's and 6800Xt's aren't gaming at 1080P Most are probably doing 1440P But more than ever are doing 4K High adjusted settings and are getting close to 100 FPS on new games right now. My point being that most of us already gaming at 4K who have already have a 10900K/12900K or 5900X to a 5800X3D aren't really lacking in 4K CPU power it's still all on the GPU at 4K when it comes to gaming.. I think that is why we aren't seeing a ton of sales for AM5 and Intel right now either.. Like if I had a 12700K or a 12900K I wouldn't upgrade to 13000 series.. I would wait and save, Or go with AM5 which will probably get a Zen4 V-cache chip in 10 months, along with a Zen 5 upgrade too probably. But I think a lot of people just recently did new build's about 10 months ago when GPU's started to drop and parts got cheap.. I did. My 5900X was 320 and 7 months ago I got my 6800XT for 850 at that time.. But with SAM on 1+1 memory and PBO, I see really great performance.. But anyway really for Intel and a 13600K with a decent MOMBO is the way to go for the Here and now. But if You do think about the future and several chip upgrades per Platform go with AMD.
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People are still enjoying the AM4 platform, High end gamer's that put up the money for 5900X's and 6800Xt's aren't gaming at 1080P Most are probably doing 1440P But more than ever are doing 4K High adjusted settings and are getting close to 100 FPS on new games right now. My point being that most of us already gaming at 4K who have already have a 10900K/12900K or 5900X to a 5800X3D aren't really lacking in 4K CPU power it's still all on the GPU at 4K when it comes to gaming.. I think that is why we aren't seeing a ton of sales for AM5 and Intel right now either.. Like if I had a 12700K or a 12900K I wouldn't upgrade to 13000 series.. I would wait and save, Or go with AM5 which will probably get a Zen4 V-cache chip in 10 months, along with a Zen 5 upgrade too probably. But I think a lot of people just recently did new build's about 10 months ago when GPU's started to drop and parts got cheap.. I did. My 5900X was 320 and 7 months ago I got my 6800XT for 850 at that time.. But with SAM on 1+1 memory and PBO, I see really great performance.. But anyway really for Intel and a 13600K with a decent MOMBO is the way to go for the Here and now. But if You do think about the future and several chip upgrades per Platform go with AMD.
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Chris
They work on these processors generations for so long they could be transparent and say if they will or will not be one which socket but it doesn't provide a financial benefit in doing so and might end up losing money so they don't. It's BS and more so their reasoning of being sued for the 1% of MB's that don't work really? I'm sure they could have a lawyer write something up to prevent any lawsuit for that specific reasoning. They do it to make you spend more and cover it up with a story that prompts the customer as their best interest when they do nothing more than calculated risks to multiple people into spending more like most business. AMD does the exact opposite to offer any competitive reason and again spin it as in the best interest to the customer. Both sides claim the and reason for exact opposite actions and both are lying to you.
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They work on these processors generations for so long they could be transparent and say if they will or will not be one which socket but it doesn't provide a financial benefit in doing so and might end up losing money so they don't. It's BS and more so their reasoning of being sued for the 1% of MB's that don't work really? I'm sure they could have a lawyer write something up to prevent any lawsuit for that specific reasoning. They do it to make you spend more and cover it up with a story that prompts the customer as their best interest when they do nothing more than calculated risks to multiple people into spending more like most business. AMD does the exact opposite to offer any competitive reason and again spin it as in the best interest to the customer. Both sides claim the and reason for exact opposite actions and both are lying to you.
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nunyobiznez
Do you remember slot 1, or socket 7, or LGA 775? Of course you do, because Intel used each those for years, across a lot more than 2 CPU releases. LGA 775 I believe was used for 5 or 6 years, it was around for what seemed like forever. Everyone seems to forget that there is precedent and Intel has had long lived sockets in the past. So they can do it, and AMD seems to have figured it out, as well. So, I have a very hard time believing Intel can't figure out how to get a bit more life out of their socket designs. They just want to help their motherboard partners sell more boards, wasting rare earths and precious metals, and filling up landfills with them, in the process.
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Do you remember slot 1, or socket 7, or LGA 775? Of course you do, because Intel used each those for years, across a lot more than 2 CPU releases. LGA 775 I believe was used for 5 or 6 years, it was around for what seemed like forever. Everyone seems to forget that there is precedent and Intel has had long lived sockets in the past. So they can do it, and AMD seems to have figured it out, as well. So, I have a very hard time believing Intel can't figure out how to get a bit more life out of their socket designs. They just want to help their motherboard partners sell more boards, wasting rare earths and precious metals, and filling up landfills with them, in the process.
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itech
my preference is even if i loose a little performance i'd prefer the same socekt, but they need to make the decision based on data. if they are competing with someone or there is some situation where they think this benefits few customers, they need to make the choice on hard data.
I'm just saying for me... i don't like the socket change. it's not just the money. it's also a pain. i 'd rather upgrade every couple years since cpus are changing a lot and capture 90% of the performance. Again though i'm the exception and this isn't a representative group.
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my preference is even if i loose a little performance i'd prefer the same socekt, but they need to make the decision based on data. if they are competing with someone or there is some situation where they think this benefits few customers, they need to make the choice on hard data.
I'm just saying for me... i don't like the socket change. it's not just the money. it's also a pain. i 'd rather upgrade every couple years since cpus are changing a lot and capture 90% of the performance. Again though i'm the exception and this isn't a representative group.
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jjdawg
One technical reason for not supporting more than 2 gens may be that DDR5 is still immature and current motherboards may not be able to support the faster rates reliably since they can't test on DIMMs that don't exist yet(I'm sure they have simulated it). You may not need a new socket, but if the board limits you then then their could be a mess with performance claims.(essentially what Gordan said)
It may be interesting to see what happens with AM5 in this regard......did they overbuild or will you be limited by memory speed on an old boards?
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One technical reason for not supporting more than 2 gens may be that DDR5 is still immature and current motherboards may not be able to support the faster rates reliably since they can't test on DIMMs that don't exist yet(I'm sure they have simulated it). You may not need a new socket, but if the board limits you then then their could be a mess with performance claims.(essentially what Gordan said)
It may be interesting to see what happens with AM5 in this regard......did they overbuild or will you be limited by memory speed on an old boards?
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Samuel
LGA 1851 will be used for Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake. Intel can't commit to a socket beyond 2 generations, not because they can't use the same socket but because they choose to change the socket so that they can keep their OEM and motherboadr partners happy. Being realistic, most people who bought Alder Lake when it came out won't upgrade to Raptor Lake and will instead upgrade to Meteor Lake or Arrow Lake which means that they have to get a whole new expensive motherboard along with their new expensive CPU.
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LGA 1851 will be used for Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake. Intel can't commit to a socket beyond 2 generations, not because they can't use the same socket but because they choose to change the socket so that they can keep their OEM and motherboadr partners happy. Being realistic, most people who bought Alder Lake when it came out won't upgrade to Raptor Lake and will instead upgrade to Meteor Lake or Arrow Lake which means that they have to get a whole new expensive motherboard along with their new expensive CPU.
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John
No, Intel CAN'T use the current socket for Meteor Lake. Meteor Lake is a new architecture and Intel uses a socket for 2 generations. A new architecture gets a new socket. If Intel were to slave Meteor Lake to LGA-1700 in its current form, it means the gen AFTER that one is also using the same socket and there is no way in hell Intel wants to do that, nor do they want to get their architecture development out of sync with new sockets. That makes ZERO sense.
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No, Intel CAN'T use the current socket for Meteor Lake. Meteor Lake is a new architecture and Intel uses a socket for 2 generations. A new architecture gets a new socket. If Intel were to slave Meteor Lake to LGA-1700 in its current form, it means the gen AFTER that one is also using the same socket and there is no way in hell Intel wants to do that, nor do they want to get their architecture development out of sync with new sockets. That makes ZERO sense.
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illanoize
It would be better to have 3-4 generations. If intel is worried about potential problems than perhaps it shouldn t be supported on lower end boards. Usually the Z series motherboards are overbuilt and have higher end components and better cooling compared to mid and lower range boards. I don t see why they can t support it. Intel if you re reading support Meteor lake on Z690-790 motherboards. Thank you.
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It would be better to have 3-4 generations. If intel is worried about potential problems than perhaps it shouldn t be supported on lower end boards. Usually the Z series motherboards are overbuilt and have higher end components and better cooling compared to mid and lower range boards. I don t see why they can t support it. Intel if you re reading support Meteor lake on Z690-790 motherboards. Thank you.
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Afre
It has been said that for the lower end of 13th Intel gen. They will use up 12th gen chips that they have in store. My question can they get away marketing these as 13th gen CPUs?? If they are open about it and say it is a 12th gen core. I will personally not be offended by this. As it will be the budget options and beggars can not be choosers. And the 12th gen Intel was not bad far from.
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It has been said that for the lower end of 13th Intel gen. They will use up 12th gen chips that they have in store. My question can they get away marketing these as 13th gen CPUs?? If they are open about it and say it is a 12th gen core. I will personally not be offended by this. As it will be the budget options and beggars can not be choosers. And the 12th gen Intel was not bad far from.
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Smarter
I would agree with Gordon that Intel's LGA 1800 series will use the same lock down mechanism/cap? It seems it is possible that adding 100 to 151 pins to a new socket would not require much more space than the current chip foot print. Wouldn't that make the most sense? Besides Intel doesn't want to miss out on all the sales of the new motherboard chipsets if they went the AMD route.
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I would agree with Gordon that Intel's LGA 1800 series will use the same lock down mechanism/cap? It seems it is possible that adding 100 to 151 pins to a new socket would not require much more space than the current chip foot print. Wouldn't that make the most sense? Besides Intel doesn't want to miss out on all the sales of the new motherboard chipsets if they went the AMD route.
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kazefalke
the real disappointment I have with them not supporting a socket for a while is actually the reverse of what a lot of people are disappointed by. Later on, being able to get a new motherboard, if yours was a cheaper one, or if it dies for some reason is frustrating. CPU typically outlast the Motherboard, but then we cannot find a new motherboard for our CPU.
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the real disappointment I have with them not supporting a socket for a while is actually the reverse of what a lot of people are disappointed by. Later on, being able to get a new motherboard, if yours was a cheaper one, or if it dies for some reason is frustrating. CPU typically outlast the Motherboard, but then we cannot find a new motherboard for our CPU.
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Millisecond
Do you think AMD made a mistake with the design of the AM5 socket? By trying to please fans by making it partly backwards compatible with existing coolers, they have compromised the thermal characteristics. Stating that 95 degrees is by design is a bit of a cop out, if you ask me. I wouldn't be surprised if they have to do a redesign for the 8000 series.
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Do you think AMD made a mistake with the design of the AM5 socket? By trying to please fans by making it partly backwards compatible with existing coolers, they have compromised the thermal characteristics. Stating that 95 degrees is by design is a bit of a cop out, if you ask me. I wouldn't be surprised if they have to do a redesign for the 8000 series.
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Michael
LGA 1700 has 1700 physical pins. LGA 17XX/18XX refers to retaining mechanism of the socket, not the socket itself. That mechanism (Intel calls it ILM - Independent Loading Mechanism) could be reused if Intel introduces 18XX pin socket for meteor lake, since the dimensions would be the same (for retaining mechanism, not the CPUs)
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LGA 1700 has 1700 physical pins. LGA 17XX/18XX refers to retaining mechanism of the socket, not the socket itself. That mechanism (Intel calls it ILM - Independent Loading Mechanism) could be reused if Intel introduces 18XX pin socket for meteor lake, since the dimensions would be the same (for retaining mechanism, not the CPUs)
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Nerevar
like Socket 1150/1151/1151v2/1155/1156/1200 or Socket 2011/2011v3/2066, there will be a new Socket 1800 for 14th gen with the same mechanical dimensions (cooler compatilty) as 1700 but different pinout. End of story
btw... my guess: Intel will drop DDR4 compatility with Socket 1800, which will be DDR5 only.
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like Socket 1150/1151/1151v2/1155/1156/1200 or Socket 2011/2011v3/2066, there will be a new Socket 1800 for 14th gen with the same mechanical dimensions (cooler compatilty) as 1700 but different pinout. End of story
btw... my guess: Intel will drop DDR4 compatility with Socket 1800, which will be DDR5 only.
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