Urban Gondolas: Transit by Cable
video description
Date: 2019-09-12
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 10
Phil Rabe
The Bay Area in California is ripe for this. I live on Alameda island, less than 2 miles stones throw from a BART station to the north, and one to the south. It takes about 20 minutes to drive to either, and then parking is scarce. A bus goes to the southern one, but none [from Alameda] going to the north station which takes commuters across the bay to the City. They recently opened a super expensive 500 M elevated cable pulled tram from the station closest to the Oakland airport over the freeways etc. I think it's 6 each way- about 1. 25 miles primarily for air travelers, who, guess what? For 3 more they can take an Uber directly to their door. That project was the first time I became aware of urban gondolas which would have been way cheaper, faster to build, more flexible, and streaming service. They have or had one in Aspen that is used all year for getting around. I often use the London cable car as a cost model, and an example of trying to make it go as a tourist attraction because it doesn't serve many commuters. I call ariel trams like Washington or New York's 'pulse transport' just like buses or elevators. You que up and wait for a large mode of transit to take a batch of people. Escalators and gondolas are streaming in that they never stop. Small cars [or steps] take a small number of riders continuously.
reply
The Bay Area in California is ripe for this. I live on Alameda island, less than 2 miles stones throw from a BART station to the north, and one to the south. It takes about 20 minutes to drive to either, and then parking is scarce. A bus goes to the southern one, but none [from Alameda] going to the north station which takes commuters across the bay to the City. They recently opened a super expensive 500 M elevated cable pulled tram from the station closest to the Oakland airport over the freeways etc. I think it's 6 each way- about 1. 25 miles primarily for air travelers, who, guess what? For 3 more they can take an Uber directly to their door. That project was the first time I became aware of urban gondolas which would have been way cheaper, faster to build, more flexible, and streaming service. They have or had one in Aspen that is used all year for getting around. I often use the London cable car as a cost model, and an example of trying to make it go as a tourist attraction because it doesn't serve many commuters. I call ariel trams like Washington or New York's 'pulse transport' just like buses or elevators. You que up and wait for a large mode of transit to take a batch of people. Escalators and gondolas are streaming in that they never stop. Small cars [or steps] take a small number of riders continuously.
reply
Thor- Rune
You should check out the cable car in La Paz, Bolivia. What you show here is a few lines, La Paz has around 10 that correspond and they are all the things you mention here - some pass over topographical hindrances, some just skip gridlocked traffic. You did not mention what i find to be the most appealing and interesting with it all, and that is the very low area inpact they have. Unlike metros where you have to dig trough everything or broadening roads for bus lanes where you have to decrease pedestrian space or demolish buildings or normal train high lines like the ones in Queens that still take a lot of space on the ground and building under it is undesireable, this just needs one foot every few meters and can kind of fit on a sidewalk without making it unwalkable. It was also quite amazing, like you said you don't have to wait for a bus, that particularily is noticable when you need to transfer and making 3 transfers on the high lines is not a big hassle like it would be on other forms of transport.
reply
You should check out the cable car in La Paz, Bolivia. What you show here is a few lines, La Paz has around 10 that correspond and they are all the things you mention here - some pass over topographical hindrances, some just skip gridlocked traffic. You did not mention what i find to be the most appealing and interesting with it all, and that is the very low area inpact they have. Unlike metros where you have to dig trough everything or broadening roads for bus lanes where you have to decrease pedestrian space or demolish buildings or normal train high lines like the ones in Queens that still take a lot of space on the ground and building under it is undesireable, this just needs one foot every few meters and can kind of fit on a sidewalk without making it unwalkable. It was also quite amazing, like you said you don't have to wait for a bus, that particularily is noticable when you need to transfer and making 3 transfers on the high lines is not a big hassle like it would be on other forms of transport.
reply
xcvx16
I noticed you pictured Telluride but kind of dismissed it as just being a ski resort gondola and thus not relevant. It's notable as the main transport between the Town of Mountain Village, which has a lot of employee subsidized housing, and the Town of Telluride. It cuts down hundreds of bus trips in a box canyon every month and is free to ride unless you intend to go skiing. You also just made me realize that I actually miss those 7 - 15 minute conversations with complete strangers from all over the world. But I'm not sure I would want to share it with the crazy guy who wanted to shank his seatmate the last time I road a bus in Denver. edit: phrasing error with split preposition.
reply
I noticed you pictured Telluride but kind of dismissed it as just being a ski resort gondola and thus not relevant. It's notable as the main transport between the Town of Mountain Village, which has a lot of employee subsidized housing, and the Town of Telluride. It cuts down hundreds of bus trips in a box canyon every month and is free to ride unless you intend to go skiing. You also just made me realize that I actually miss those 7 - 15 minute conversations with complete strangers from all over the world. But I'm not sure I would want to share it with the crazy guy who wanted to shank his seatmate the last time I road a bus in Denver. edit: phrasing error with split preposition.
reply
yorktown99
It took me a while to get my head around this, but it finally clicked: this is a People Mover (PRT. It occupies a space on the transit system continuum to funnel passengers into denser parts of the network, often around obstacles (geography, urban form, etc. The challenge with most PRT systems is that they are imagined as a weird hybrid of private automobile, bus, & railway, with fixed guideways that cannot justify their costs relative to the passenger loads. PRT, when built with fixed guideways, is often saddled with being the core of a local transit system. These urban gondolas flip the expectation: a low-density solution to a specific, localized issue.
reply
It took me a while to get my head around this, but it finally clicked: this is a People Mover (PRT. It occupies a space on the transit system continuum to funnel passengers into denser parts of the network, often around obstacles (geography, urban form, etc. The challenge with most PRT systems is that they are imagined as a weird hybrid of private automobile, bus, & railway, with fixed guideways that cannot justify their costs relative to the passenger loads. PRT, when built with fixed guideways, is often saddled with being the core of a local transit system. These urban gondolas flip the expectation: a low-density solution to a specific, localized issue.
reply
englanddg
Interesting you didn't mention how Disney is using this to extend it's transportation network and better connect some of its other hotels at Disneyworld. The first run will connect the Caribbean Beach Resort, Pop Century and Art of Animation to Hollywood Studios and Epcot. If it succeeds, rumor is there are plans to further connect to Disney Springs as well as the All Star Resort Complex and the Coronado Springs (used mostly for Conventions) Resort and Animal Kingdom resort. There is also talk about using it to connect Ft. Wilderness to Wilderness Lodge, and Wilderness Lodge to Contemporary (which would put commutors onto the monorail line from there.
reply
Interesting you didn't mention how Disney is using this to extend it's transportation network and better connect some of its other hotels at Disneyworld. The first run will connect the Caribbean Beach Resort, Pop Century and Art of Animation to Hollywood Studios and Epcot. If it succeeds, rumor is there are plans to further connect to Disney Springs as well as the All Star Resort Complex and the Coronado Springs (used mostly for Conventions) Resort and Animal Kingdom resort. There is also talk about using it to connect Ft. Wilderness to Wilderness Lodge, and Wilderness Lodge to Contemporary (which would put commutors onto the monorail line from there.
reply
Christopher Rose
Another Gondola transportation system coming to the US is at Walt Disney World, and not as a theme park ride. This will be used as an actual transportation system, connecting 4 of their resorts to 2 of their theme parks as an alternative to their bus system. I actually would love to see you do a Disney World related city planning video. The history of planning Disney World as it's own city is actually pretty interesting. Plus the transportation system in Disney World is absolutely amazing, with an extensive bus system, boat transportation system, monorail, train, Minni-vans, plus the upcoming gondola system.
reply
Another Gondola transportation system coming to the US is at Walt Disney World, and not as a theme park ride. This will be used as an actual transportation system, connecting 4 of their resorts to 2 of their theme parks as an alternative to their bus system. I actually would love to see you do a Disney World related city planning video. The history of planning Disney World as it's own city is actually pretty interesting. Plus the transportation system in Disney World is absolutely amazing, with an extensive bus system, boat transportation system, monorail, train, Minni-vans, plus the upcoming gondola system.
reply
ChallahRajni
I'm wondering if this would be good for NYC. If run alongside major subway and bus lines, perhaps this could this provide another transit option and relieve some of the overcrowding in the system. Its frequency and reliability could be a godsend to the subway deadzones in the outer boroughs, especially if the stations could connect with or terminate near subway stations. Granted, this doesn't solve the fundamental problem of nearly everyone having to drag themselves into Manhattan at the same time to go to work, rather than having access to great paying jobs in walking distance of where they live.
reply
I'm wondering if this would be good for NYC. If run alongside major subway and bus lines, perhaps this could this provide another transit option and relieve some of the overcrowding in the system. Its frequency and reliability could be a godsend to the subway deadzones in the outer boroughs, especially if the stations could connect with or terminate near subway stations. Granted, this doesn't solve the fundamental problem of nearly everyone having to drag themselves into Manhattan at the same time to go to work, rather than having access to great paying jobs in walking distance of where they live.
reply
siachoquero
Ropeways as an urban transportation mode in cities, between cities or connecting villages to the cities are maybe new for North or South America but for Europe there's nothing new in it. My hometown Tbilisi had 7 Aerial trams (reversible ropeway) as an urban transport since 1958. A small town Chiatura in my country had 26 lines of reversible ropeways connecting city neighborhoods or villages with the city. Also a huge 4, 5 km long reversible ropeway connecting two towns in my country Tsnori and SIghnaghi with a unique middle through going station which was unique an unsual on a reversible systmem.
reply
Ropeways as an urban transportation mode in cities, between cities or connecting villages to the cities are maybe new for North or South America but for Europe there's nothing new in it. My hometown Tbilisi had 7 Aerial trams (reversible ropeway) as an urban transport since 1958. A small town Chiatura in my country had 26 lines of reversible ropeways connecting city neighborhoods or villages with the city. Also a huge 4, 5 km long reversible ropeway connecting two towns in my country Tsnori and SIghnaghi with a unique middle through going station which was unique an unsual on a reversible systmem.
reply
some man who ate a puerto rican leg
My city had proposed in 2011 to implement a gondola lift that would connect the end of a metro line to the busiest shopping center of the city/island. What happened? The proposal was abandoned, after knowing that there isn't enough people taking public transit in the first place, as the bus network is already shitty first of all, and there are no articulated buses in service (because they never end on the street/they end in underserved areas/they end in areas where there are little people taking it/they end in areas where population density is too low)
reply
My city had proposed in 2011 to implement a gondola lift that would connect the end of a metro line to the busiest shopping center of the city/island. What happened? The proposal was abandoned, after knowing that there isn't enough people taking public transit in the first place, as the bus network is already shitty first of all, and there are no articulated buses in service (because they never end on the street/they end in underserved areas/they end in areas where there are little people taking it/they end in areas where population density is too low)
reply
Anthony Holroyd
In my home city of Glasgow we built the 3rd oldest subway system in the world (1896 it opened) and it was cable hauled until the 1930s. The route runs in a circle under the city centre, west end and southside and the cables used to run at a constant 7. 5mph with the cars gripping onto them to start running and then letting go to come to a stop. Electrified with a third rail at 600v DC, it's still just the two lines running opposite ways around a circle. Many plans to extend the system have come to nothing. The speeds are considerably higher nowadays though.
reply
In my home city of Glasgow we built the 3rd oldest subway system in the world (1896 it opened) and it was cable hauled until the 1930s. The route runs in a circle under the city centre, west end and southside and the cables used to run at a constant 7. 5mph with the cars gripping onto them to start running and then letting go to come to a stop. Electrified with a third rail at 600v DC, it's still just the two lines running opposite ways around a circle. Many plans to extend the system have come to nothing. The speeds are considerably higher nowadays though.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
