A $20 Bulb Could Equal A $500 Bill! What The!
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Date: 2025-04-03
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Comments and reviews: 20
bionicwangful
Speaking of the industry changing for the worse, and dealerships ripping people off, ( get this story, mind you im a prior flat rate tech and have alldata, mitchell pro demand and Chilton subscriptios for referance ) I drive a 2019 chevy colorado zr2 bision diesel with 50k, JN chevy of oahu HI wants $1, 490 plus tax to replace a DEF injector! I asked where are they coming up with the labor times, they say customer pay is WARRANTY TIME X2 PLUS 1. 5 DIAG. (So that would be. 5. 5 for installation, 1. 0 1. 0 for diagnosis, 1. 5 additional diagnosis on every repair order line = 4. 5 hours at $200 per flat rate hour) Mind you it was a come back check engine light only had my truck for 2 days when cel came back on, prior to truck was at the dealer from early DEC 2024 till late FEB 2025, then again for 3 weeks for this comeback diag. On the 1st repair order was total of over 16 hours of repairs for a turbo (should if been covered under 7 year 70k select state emission warranty, but they never heard of it ) 7. 5hrs, #1 nox sensor 1. 5 hrs, hvac control unit 2. 5 hours, headlight switch 2. 0 hours, and sun load sensor 2. 5 hours! ( as per all data its like 10 hpurs total) When I questioned the labor times the service manager told me I was trying to steal money off the techs , and what do I think that the dealership was trying to rip me off, and the labor times are ISLAND PRICES not mainland prices lmfao thank God I have a very good extended warranty and only had a $1, 200 out of pocket costs. The DEF injector they wanted $900 out of pocket costs.
Any gm techs out there please lmk if SI customer pay time at your dealerships is double warranty r/r. Plus double warranty diagnosis time, plus additional customer pay diagnosis time.
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Speaking of the industry changing for the worse, and dealerships ripping people off, ( get this story, mind you im a prior flat rate tech and have alldata, mitchell pro demand and Chilton subscriptios for referance ) I drive a 2019 chevy colorado zr2 bision diesel with 50k, JN chevy of oahu HI wants $1, 490 plus tax to replace a DEF injector! I asked where are they coming up with the labor times, they say customer pay is WARRANTY TIME X2 PLUS 1. 5 DIAG. (So that would be. 5. 5 for installation, 1. 0 1. 0 for diagnosis, 1. 5 additional diagnosis on every repair order line = 4. 5 hours at $200 per flat rate hour) Mind you it was a come back check engine light only had my truck for 2 days when cel came back on, prior to truck was at the dealer from early DEC 2024 till late FEB 2025, then again for 3 weeks for this comeback diag. On the 1st repair order was total of over 16 hours of repairs for a turbo (should if been covered under 7 year 70k select state emission warranty, but they never heard of it ) 7. 5hrs, #1 nox sensor 1. 5 hrs, hvac control unit 2. 5 hours, headlight switch 2. 0 hours, and sun load sensor 2. 5 hours! ( as per all data its like 10 hpurs total) When I questioned the labor times the service manager told me I was trying to steal money off the techs , and what do I think that the dealership was trying to rip me off, and the labor times are ISLAND PRICES not mainland prices lmfao thank God I have a very good extended warranty and only had a $1, 200 out of pocket costs. The DEF injector they wanted $900 out of pocket costs.
Any gm techs out there please lmk if SI customer pay time at your dealerships is double warranty r/r. Plus double warranty diagnosis time, plus additional customer pay diagnosis time.
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MrMyers-oi7op
I havn't done one yet, but the static recal of the front radar system on new GM vehicles requires an area much larger than even the largest of shop floors to be free of any metal objects. and the dynamic recal requires there to be zero precipitation (including no visible exhaust vapors from other vehicles) and very specific driving instructions to be followed. at minimum 1hr of labor, plus im assuming a basic diagnostic charge. although the recent model years (GM) have gone to integrated LED light sources (no bulbs to replace. just the more costly entire assembly or its control module) IMO, on the previous 2 generations of models, it is very suspicious that service proceedures call for the removal of the entire lamp assembly, front grille, and for fog lamps, the entire front bumber cover, simply to replace bulbs, when there are more efficient, direct methods of doing so. Its seems they intend to dissuade the capable and willing type of vehicle owner from performing what should have been made to be a simple replacement of a common wear part. Maybe as vehicles enter into the ADAS Class 4 and 5 headlamps will no longer be needed. Speaking of headlamps. whomever thought they were innovating with the 5202 socket/bulb type might want to rethink it. I guess they came up with it so you don't have to twist anything I don't get along with 5202's very well. I tend to break the plastic tabs when accessing from under the fender. $$$$$$. so I no longer perform 5202 bulb replacements.
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I havn't done one yet, but the static recal of the front radar system on new GM vehicles requires an area much larger than even the largest of shop floors to be free of any metal objects. and the dynamic recal requires there to be zero precipitation (including no visible exhaust vapors from other vehicles) and very specific driving instructions to be followed. at minimum 1hr of labor, plus im assuming a basic diagnostic charge. although the recent model years (GM) have gone to integrated LED light sources (no bulbs to replace. just the more costly entire assembly or its control module) IMO, on the previous 2 generations of models, it is very suspicious that service proceedures call for the removal of the entire lamp assembly, front grille, and for fog lamps, the entire front bumber cover, simply to replace bulbs, when there are more efficient, direct methods of doing so. Its seems they intend to dissuade the capable and willing type of vehicle owner from performing what should have been made to be a simple replacement of a common wear part. Maybe as vehicles enter into the ADAS Class 4 and 5 headlamps will no longer be needed. Speaking of headlamps. whomever thought they were innovating with the 5202 socket/bulb type might want to rethink it. I guess they came up with it so you don't have to twist anything I don't get along with 5202's very well. I tend to break the plastic tabs when accessing from under the fender. $$$$$$. so I no longer perform 5202 bulb replacements.
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Cre80s
Already been there, in nearly the same exact order of events. But, in my case, a very different vehicle, a 2020 Kia Forte. When I looked at the owners manual to see how to access the lower fog lamps (which are not only forced to be on, but the dashboard will ding annoyingly that one is burned out and you can't shut that off, obviously, I found it reading simply to take it to a service professional. That's it.
Of course it was well over $100.
This is transparent owner scamming built into the design and arguably violation of right to repair. It was at least a little entertaining to get the Kia dealership staff to comment on it's absurdity. Not hard to tell they also think it's near criminal.
That said, I otherwise really like the car, and have a generally positive opinion of Kia (at least compared to other makes I've gotten sick of dealing with. But, I already know when my warranty is up, and it will doubtless get far more expensive to replace, I will instead pay for an after-market hack to disable the ding in the dashboard, and will gladly pay many times more for it, to shut up the alert, because I have zero intention to just roll with this. The designers who are being instructed to build future profits into cars have no idea how far backward some of us are willing to bend to not comply.
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Already been there, in nearly the same exact order of events. But, in my case, a very different vehicle, a 2020 Kia Forte. When I looked at the owners manual to see how to access the lower fog lamps (which are not only forced to be on, but the dashboard will ding annoyingly that one is burned out and you can't shut that off, obviously, I found it reading simply to take it to a service professional. That's it.
Of course it was well over $100.
This is transparent owner scamming built into the design and arguably violation of right to repair. It was at least a little entertaining to get the Kia dealership staff to comment on it's absurdity. Not hard to tell they also think it's near criminal.
That said, I otherwise really like the car, and have a generally positive opinion of Kia (at least compared to other makes I've gotten sick of dealing with. But, I already know when my warranty is up, and it will doubtless get far more expensive to replace, I will instead pay for an after-market hack to disable the ding in the dashboard, and will gladly pay many times more for it, to shut up the alert, because I have zero intention to just roll with this. The designers who are being instructed to build future profits into cars have no idea how far backward some of us are willing to bend to not comply.
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richardwhalen732
Some 10 years back my daughter came to me to replace a low beam bulb on the passenger side of her 1999 Altima. I asked why she didn't have the guy in the parts store do it and she told me that he couldn't get to it from the top and she would have to go to a Nissan dealer to have it swapped out. I checked with Nissan and they said I had to remove the front bumper cover, the grill, and some supportive structures that block access to the bulbs. Also I may have to remove the entire lens assembly. I don't recall the estimate but it was beyond anything I expected for such a simple fix.
As it turned out I was able to pull the Eric 0 trick of folding back the right front fender well liner and was able to reach both 10mm nuts that held the entire headlamp assembly in place. It was absolutely no issue to swap out the bulbs and then return the assembly to the front of the car.
I wonder how many shops have charged customers the full book costs to perform this task using the methods you and I used.
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Some 10 years back my daughter came to me to replace a low beam bulb on the passenger side of her 1999 Altima. I asked why she didn't have the guy in the parts store do it and she told me that he couldn't get to it from the top and she would have to go to a Nissan dealer to have it swapped out. I checked with Nissan and they said I had to remove the front bumper cover, the grill, and some supportive structures that block access to the bulbs. Also I may have to remove the entire lens assembly. I don't recall the estimate but it was beyond anything I expected for such a simple fix.
As it turned out I was able to pull the Eric 0 trick of folding back the right front fender well liner and was able to reach both 10mm nuts that held the entire headlamp assembly in place. It was absolutely no issue to swap out the bulbs and then return the assembly to the front of the car.
I wonder how many shops have charged customers the full book costs to perform this task using the methods you and I used.
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KentuckyRanger
The last new car I purchased, in 2015, Before the test drive, I checked, to see how things like headlights, tail lights, etc. are replaced.
If they're like this, I don't even take it for a test drive, LOL!
It's insane, the way they design cars nowadays!
What blows my mind, is even though they could design a vehicle, anyway they wanted, why would they make it such a complicated event
When all they have to do, is design it, with routine maintenance in mind!
Yes, they make $500, to replace a simple headlight bulb, but look at the hassle it's putting on the dealership, and mechanics!
Not to mention, someone has to deal with $500, to replace $40 worth of bulbs, that'll be the last vehicle in that brand line, they ever buy!
Even the car I ended up buying, a Subaru Outback, you still have to pull the fender liner back, to replace the fog lights, but the rest are very easy to replace.
It's just pure masochism, LOL!
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The last new car I purchased, in 2015, Before the test drive, I checked, to see how things like headlights, tail lights, etc. are replaced.
If they're like this, I don't even take it for a test drive, LOL!
It's insane, the way they design cars nowadays!
What blows my mind, is even though they could design a vehicle, anyway they wanted, why would they make it such a complicated event
When all they have to do, is design it, with routine maintenance in mind!
Yes, they make $500, to replace a simple headlight bulb, but look at the hassle it's putting on the dealership, and mechanics!
Not to mention, someone has to deal with $500, to replace $40 worth of bulbs, that'll be the last vehicle in that brand line, they ever buy!
Even the car I ended up buying, a Subaru Outback, you still have to pull the fender liner back, to replace the fog lights, but the rest are very easy to replace.
It's just pure masochism, LOL!
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vanatic22
You touched on several key points here. The most important one being that manufacturers should not be making vehicles that require that much work to replace a light bulb or any other basic maintenance task. Thankfully, you discovered that you didn't HAVE to spend over 1-1/2 hours doing all that work, but how many people would have Another very important point is the liability factor. People are sue happy these days and you don't want to give them any reason to go down that road. My son owns a shop and has cameras everywhere to record exactly what is being done in the shop, in case a customer accuses him of something he did or didn't do. Glad I'm retired & get to wrench on my 21, 24, 49 and 53 year old vehicles!
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You touched on several key points here. The most important one being that manufacturers should not be making vehicles that require that much work to replace a light bulb or any other basic maintenance task. Thankfully, you discovered that you didn't HAVE to spend over 1-1/2 hours doing all that work, but how many people would have Another very important point is the liability factor. People are sue happy these days and you don't want to give them any reason to go down that road. My son owns a shop and has cameras everywhere to record exactly what is being done in the shop, in case a customer accuses him of something he did or didn't do. Glad I'm retired & get to wrench on my 21, 24, 49 and 53 year old vehicles!
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CycleGeezer-cq9lm
You are correct, Mr. O. The car industry has gone completely criminal. The initial cost of vehicles is ridiculously expensive and then they make up fairy tales about what it takes to repair them. Not to mention the ludicrous prices for the repair parts. Like I say, completely criminal IMHO! Lucky for your little town they have a honest, reputable shop who will do their best to be reasonable. They should thank their lucky stars for Mr. & Mrs. O, Josh and South Main Auto!
Now, continue on telling us we can do it. So we can watch and learn and still maybe we can't. but we're so much closer than we used to be thanks to all you have shown us. Keep up the good work/teaching!
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You are correct, Mr. O. The car industry has gone completely criminal. The initial cost of vehicles is ridiculously expensive and then they make up fairy tales about what it takes to repair them. Not to mention the ludicrous prices for the repair parts. Like I say, completely criminal IMHO! Lucky for your little town they have a honest, reputable shop who will do their best to be reasonable. They should thank their lucky stars for Mr. & Mrs. O, Josh and South Main Auto!
Now, continue on telling us we can do it. So we can watch and learn and still maybe we can't. but we're so much closer than we used to be thanks to all you have shown us. Keep up the good work/teaching!
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SeanTheSarcastic
I know the shop manual for my SUV says I have to take all this crap off the front to get to and replace the headlight bulb, but I was able to do it the old fashion way from behind and only took 5 minutes to do it. The only difference is my hand got scraped up a bit, which is why they recommend doing it the hard way as they aren't allowed to have employees doing such a dangerous job. It's not just the car design. I remember a shop trying to charge me $60 in labor to change the battery. I had changed that battery the previous time myself, and know it only takes 5 minutes and their hourly labor charge isn't that high. I stared at guy the wide eyed and said seriously!
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I know the shop manual for my SUV says I have to take all this crap off the front to get to and replace the headlight bulb, but I was able to do it the old fashion way from behind and only took 5 minutes to do it. The only difference is my hand got scraped up a bit, which is why they recommend doing it the hard way as they aren't allowed to have employees doing such a dangerous job. It's not just the car design. I remember a shop trying to charge me $60 in labor to change the battery. I had changed that battery the previous time myself, and know it only takes 5 minutes and their hourly labor charge isn't that high. I stared at guy the wide eyed and said seriously!
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autorepair
I wonder if the manufacturer would hear this approach and change it I am imagining someone looking at assembly diagrams and coming up with this excessive procedure. Being open to the change could limit the liability of dealerships is the calibration procedure is avoided. I can't imagine a service advisor feeling good about dropping this cannonball is someone's lap and tell the customer too bad. Maybe the right to repair advocates could bring this into the legislation requiring adhering to an easier and less costly procedures if available. Canadian thoughts. no tariffs charged.
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I wonder if the manufacturer would hear this approach and change it I am imagining someone looking at assembly diagrams and coming up with this excessive procedure. Being open to the change could limit the liability of dealerships is the calibration procedure is avoided. I can't imagine a service advisor feeling good about dropping this cannonball is someone's lap and tell the customer too bad. Maybe the right to repair advocates could bring this into the legislation requiring adhering to an easier and less costly procedures if available. Canadian thoughts. no tariffs charged.
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alantorrance6153
You appeared to refer to that vehicle as a truck. NO. It is NOT a truck. It is a light utility vehicle, not much different in weight and structure from an ordinary passenger car. Its main difference is that it has an open tray at the rear instead of a closed boot/trunk. It can carry a slightly larger load in its open tray instead of the much smaller load that can be carried in a conventional normal boot/trunk. A truck is a heavy duty freight vehicle that can carry heavy loads, often massive and really heavy, usually on an open tray often behind a separate cab.
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You appeared to refer to that vehicle as a truck. NO. It is NOT a truck. It is a light utility vehicle, not much different in weight and structure from an ordinary passenger car. Its main difference is that it has an open tray at the rear instead of a closed boot/trunk. It can carry a slightly larger load in its open tray instead of the much smaller load that can be carried in a conventional normal boot/trunk. A truck is a heavy duty freight vehicle that can carry heavy loads, often massive and really heavy, usually on an open tray often behind a separate cab.
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kitcat2559
Ive got 16 f150 platinum with all the fancy stuff, i love the features but i had issues with a purge valve making the truck not turn on after fueling for 5 mins, just cranking non stop till it could i guess close that valve and make a vaccum again and let the truck crank and start really rough trying to shut back off, took it to the dealer because i had extended warranty that i was sold and come to find out that part isnt covered, and its like a $250 part plus labor for a total of about $500 because of a valve failing, ridiculous
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Ive got 16 f150 platinum with all the fancy stuff, i love the features but i had issues with a purge valve making the truck not turn on after fueling for 5 mins, just cranking non stop till it could i guess close that valve and make a vaccum again and let the truck crank and start really rough trying to shut back off, took it to the dealer because i had extended warranty that i was sold and come to find out that part isnt covered, and its like a $250 part plus labor for a total of about $500 because of a valve failing, ridiculous
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josephantal9206
I agree 100 % The car manufacturers catered to the whims of people who wanted comfort and convenience and the ability to impress their friends with gadgets in Product improvements to the basic car. There are very few basic cars now. We are all paying for many of the improvements that most of us could do without. But we do like the conveniences, so we pay or walk.
The car makers have finally forced most DIY people to come cap in hand to the dealer and beg for honest service charges.
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I agree 100 % The car manufacturers catered to the whims of people who wanted comfort and convenience and the ability to impress their friends with gadgets in Product improvements to the basic car. There are very few basic cars now. We are all paying for many of the improvements that most of us could do without. But we do like the conveniences, so we pay or walk.
The car makers have finally forced most DIY people to come cap in hand to the dealer and beg for honest service charges.
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funone8716
If not already, soon if the camera is disconnected, the vehicle will HAVE to go to a stealership for calibration and computer reset only they can do. cost $1000 With the increasing use of sensors and computers, this trend might extend to even air and oil filters. Don't come in to the dealer for a $500 oil change Car goes into limp mode. Owner puts the car in their front yard for sale. low price. just needs oil change and re-calibration. If this sounds crazy now, wait 5 years.
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If not already, soon if the camera is disconnected, the vehicle will HAVE to go to a stealership for calibration and computer reset only they can do. cost $1000 With the increasing use of sensors and computers, this trend might extend to even air and oil filters. Don't come in to the dealer for a $500 oil change Car goes into limp mode. Owner puts the car in their front yard for sale. low price. just needs oil change and re-calibration. If this sounds crazy now, wait 5 years.
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michaelallen5505
We had a 2005 Chevy Suburban, almost new. Insurance was paying for a cracked headlight assembly. I ordered one through the dealer. When it came in and I went to get it and they said, oh no we're supposed to put it in but we don't have time right now. I said I would just put it in myself. So they handed it to me, but then they wrote me a check for the labor. I think it might have been 45 minutes, but it took at most 5 minutes to put it in, and I got paid.
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We had a 2005 Chevy Suburban, almost new. Insurance was paying for a cracked headlight assembly. I ordered one through the dealer. When it came in and I went to get it and they said, oh no we're supposed to put it in but we don't have time right now. I said I would just put it in myself. So they handed it to me, but then they wrote me a check for the labor. I think it might have been 45 minutes, but it took at most 5 minutes to put it in, and I got paid.
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RonDoiron-pz3ee
Ridiculous, slowly taking away the owners right to service their own. Cost me $1800. for a right rear parking brake cable. I was under the car the week before and replaced the brake cable connector. That’s when I noticed the damaged cable. Usually a 1 hour job. Being winter and cold, I opted for the dealer. Big mistake. Same with bulb replacement, remove trunk lining for rear light, detatch the fender guards for the front.
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Ridiculous, slowly taking away the owners right to service their own. Cost me $1800. for a right rear parking brake cable. I was under the car the week before and replaced the brake cable connector. That’s when I noticed the damaged cable. Usually a 1 hour job. Being winter and cold, I opted for the dealer. Big mistake. Same with bulb replacement, remove trunk lining for rear light, detatch the fender guards for the front.
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davidyoung1610
Wow, maybe someday car manufacturers will make a stripped down version of their models without the radars, cameras, and digital screens controlling everything. I still remember with my 1997 car just reaching behind the head/tail light assemblies and unscrewing the burned bulbs and replacing them all within 2 minutes. Today’s cars have a lot of convenience features but if anything goes wrong it’s a major hit to the pocketbook.
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Wow, maybe someday car manufacturers will make a stripped down version of their models without the radars, cameras, and digital screens controlling everything. I still remember with my 1997 car just reaching behind the head/tail light assemblies and unscrewing the burned bulbs and replacing them all within 2 minutes. Today’s cars have a lot of convenience features but if anything goes wrong it’s a major hit to the pocketbook.
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66lwmorgan
This is what the manufacture's want. Make it to where most mechanics or common DIY selfers don't have nor can they afford the machinery, software to recalibrate such camera's etc. They want to force people to go to the dealership, (THIEVES) to get all repairs done at dealer cost. I'll bet if you took this car to the dealer they would have charged $500 but would have changed the bulbs just like this guy did.
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This is what the manufacture's want. Make it to where most mechanics or common DIY selfers don't have nor can they afford the machinery, software to recalibrate such camera's etc. They want to force people to go to the dealership, (THIEVES) to get all repairs done at dealer cost. I'll bet if you took this car to the dealer they would have charged $500 but would have changed the bulbs just like this guy did.
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chucklesthered2338
Things like this is why I still own my 1998 Chevy 4x4 pick up with an 8' bed. I can do almost all repairs myself and the parts are reasonable. As of today, it has 352, 758 miles and the only major issue was having to replace the tranny. Bought a used tranny over 100, 000 miles ago, and only paid $250 dollars for it. My wife has a new vehicle and I do not like it. Used is the way to go.
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Things like this is why I still own my 1998 Chevy 4x4 pick up with an 8' bed. I can do almost all repairs myself and the parts are reasonable. As of today, it has 352, 758 miles and the only major issue was having to replace the tranny. Bought a used tranny over 100, 000 miles ago, and only paid $250 dollars for it. My wife has a new vehicle and I do not like it. Used is the way to go.
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dandennis8465
The bulbs on my 17 Hondue Accord blow every 6 months. I get the one year lightbulb warranty at one of the popular auto parts store for $8 and that gives me a free replacement for ever set I purchase. I have the original bulbs in my 2003 F150 with the big 5. 4L from when I purchased the truck brand new in 2002. She’s a little crusty now but hope to get one more winter out of her.
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The bulbs on my 17 Hondue Accord blow every 6 months. I get the one year lightbulb warranty at one of the popular auto parts store for $8 and that gives me a free replacement for ever set I purchase. I have the original bulbs in my 2003 F150 with the big 5. 4L from when I purchased the truck brand new in 2002. She’s a little crusty now but hope to get one more winter out of her.
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stevelynch5843
My son's Ford escape blew a tranny seal the Ford dealer wanted $5000 to fix it, I knew a Ford Tech who works on the side, cost my kid $1600 to have it done and he changed all the fluids he thought needed replacing on top of the tranny, the guy told me he works at Ford just to stay up on all the tech but is so busy with his shop at home he's gone to part-time at the Ford dealer
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My son's Ford escape blew a tranny seal the Ford dealer wanted $5000 to fix it, I knew a Ford Tech who works on the side, cost my kid $1600 to have it done and he changed all the fluids he thought needed replacing on top of the tranny, the guy told me he works at Ford just to stay up on all the tech but is so busy with his shop at home he's gone to part-time at the Ford dealer
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