We Tracked the Secret Police Microphones Hidden Everywhere - WIRED
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Date: 2024-12-23
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Comments and reviews: 20
hollywoostars
So my hope would be that the placement of these sensors is based on rates of gun crime in those locations. If that is the case, and there is a correlation between race and the rate of gun crime in terms of geography, then it seems fallacious to claim that these sensors are targeting communities of color intentionally. At the very least, that shouldn't be where one's mind immediately jumps to.
Granted, there are certainly reasons to believe that this MIGHT be the case, given the history of institutional racism at play within police forces, but it shouldn't be automatically assumed, unless of course one wants to advance a particular agenda. You could certainly make the argument that (if in fact) the placement of these sensors is based on rates of gun crime, and that this correlates with racial makeup of these neighborhoods, that the reason these neighborhoods HAVE higher rates of gun crime is due to external factors. This could include the legacy of red-lining policies that concentrated people of color in these neighborhoods, along with myriad other policy choices made over the last century.
Based on that, you could make the argument that the placement of these sensors is in fact rooted in racism, even if the decision on where to place these sensors wasn't, on the face of things, based on racism. I know a lot of people in these comments are going to want to attribute the higher rates of gun violence to cultural and individual factors but I don't think that, if one examines the historical record and the social science research, these are going to be the primary drivers of the violence. This is, of course, debatable.
However, given how frequently this technology produces false positives, it doesn't seem to be a very good use of limited public resources.
I should note that I don't believe in the whole Defund the police movement and, that in fact, the data show that greater policing is effective in reducing homicides and that many of the residents of these communities, while suspicious of the police, do want to have an increased police presence, as it is effective in reducing homicides. This is not to say that one of the goals of the more reasonable parts of the Defund the police movement is not simply to get rid of the police, but is instead to not rely on police for all forms of emergencies, especially things like psychiatric emergencies. Unfortunately the slogan Defund the police doesn't allow for this kind of nuance and, of course, there are some people within that movement who genuinely do believe in getting rid of the police entirely, which is a terrible idea imho.
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So my hope would be that the placement of these sensors is based on rates of gun crime in those locations. If that is the case, and there is a correlation between race and the rate of gun crime in terms of geography, then it seems fallacious to claim that these sensors are targeting communities of color intentionally. At the very least, that shouldn't be where one's mind immediately jumps to.
Granted, there are certainly reasons to believe that this MIGHT be the case, given the history of institutional racism at play within police forces, but it shouldn't be automatically assumed, unless of course one wants to advance a particular agenda. You could certainly make the argument that (if in fact) the placement of these sensors is based on rates of gun crime, and that this correlates with racial makeup of these neighborhoods, that the reason these neighborhoods HAVE higher rates of gun crime is due to external factors. This could include the legacy of red-lining policies that concentrated people of color in these neighborhoods, along with myriad other policy choices made over the last century.
Based on that, you could make the argument that the placement of these sensors is in fact rooted in racism, even if the decision on where to place these sensors wasn't, on the face of things, based on racism. I know a lot of people in these comments are going to want to attribute the higher rates of gun violence to cultural and individual factors but I don't think that, if one examines the historical record and the social science research, these are going to be the primary drivers of the violence. This is, of course, debatable.
However, given how frequently this technology produces false positives, it doesn't seem to be a very good use of limited public resources.
I should note that I don't believe in the whole Defund the police movement and, that in fact, the data show that greater policing is effective in reducing homicides and that many of the residents of these communities, while suspicious of the police, do want to have an increased police presence, as it is effective in reducing homicides. This is not to say that one of the goals of the more reasonable parts of the Defund the police movement is not simply to get rid of the police, but is instead to not rely on police for all forms of emergencies, especially things like psychiatric emergencies. Unfortunately the slogan Defund the police doesn't allow for this kind of nuance and, of course, there are some people within that movement who genuinely do believe in getting rid of the police entirely, which is a terrible idea imho.
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shazzb1170
It's a chicken and an egg. What came first, the sensors or the communities They said in the article, Police provide statistics for the crime, which is false. Any crime statistic is based on what is reported. Not the actual number of crimes that occur. They use data to determine the location or if they are in high-risk areas such as hospitals and government departments. Call me crazy, but if I was there and was shot, I'd be more than happy to be laying on the ground bleeding, knowing that EMS was on its way because the sensor detected the shots. Time is critical for saving lives. I hope someone heard the gunshot and called 911 to have a sensor that is audited and working and calls 911 every time. I know which one I prefer if I or my loved ones are injured and waiting for help. Sorry but this is actually about saving lives and not about privacy. If a person is that worried about their privacy then don't use any technology.
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It's a chicken and an egg. What came first, the sensors or the communities They said in the article, Police provide statistics for the crime, which is false. Any crime statistic is based on what is reported. Not the actual number of crimes that occur. They use data to determine the location or if they are in high-risk areas such as hospitals and government departments. Call me crazy, but if I was there and was shot, I'd be more than happy to be laying on the ground bleeding, knowing that EMS was on its way because the sensor detected the shots. Time is critical for saving lives. I hope someone heard the gunshot and called 911 to have a sensor that is audited and working and calls 911 every time. I know which one I prefer if I or my loved ones are injured and waiting for help. Sorry but this is actually about saving lives and not about privacy. If a person is that worried about their privacy then don't use any technology.
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VidPro95
This is not even a story, and very half-baked journalism. Wired claims, Biased overpolicing of colored communities accross America. Yet, Wired said themselves that sensors are placed in areas with high gun crime statistics, which just so happens to be communities of color and lower income. Then they reference ONE police incident where a guy was arrested for traffic tickets on New Year's Eve when he was standing near a gunshot location. One incident is not indicative of a pattern of over policing. Then they point out that sensors are not 100% reliable, as if it's supposed to be some piece of admissible evidence in court. It's not, It's an indicator of where to funnel police attention. Keep in mind, it's 1 officer to every 222-667 citizens accross major cities. Again, a non-issue and very half baked journalism.
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This is not even a story, and very half-baked journalism. Wired claims, Biased overpolicing of colored communities accross America. Yet, Wired said themselves that sensors are placed in areas with high gun crime statistics, which just so happens to be communities of color and lower income. Then they reference ONE police incident where a guy was arrested for traffic tickets on New Year's Eve when he was standing near a gunshot location. One incident is not indicative of a pattern of over policing. Then they point out that sensors are not 100% reliable, as if it's supposed to be some piece of admissible evidence in court. It's not, It's an indicator of where to funnel police attention. Keep in mind, it's 1 officer to every 222-667 citizens accross major cities. Again, a non-issue and very half baked journalism.
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wojomojo
ACLU and critics are mixing up cause and effect. Nobody will pay for ShotSpotter UNLESS that area has frequent gunshots. The locations are self-selected, rather than engineered by Big Brother. The fact that those areas are predominantly low income and minority based is just an artifact of gun violence statistics. And no single individual of whatever race/income level are identified with the ShotSpotter, it's just an alert that a gun shot was fired! Furthermore, if there are no guns being fired, nothing happens. That is much more privacy protecting than cameras / CCTV which is always on, captures everyone whether they are lawful or not, and can be used to target individuals. ACLU, I love you guys but you are wasting your energy on this.
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ACLU and critics are mixing up cause and effect. Nobody will pay for ShotSpotter UNLESS that area has frequent gunshots. The locations are self-selected, rather than engineered by Big Brother. The fact that those areas are predominantly low income and minority based is just an artifact of gun violence statistics. And no single individual of whatever race/income level are identified with the ShotSpotter, it's just an alert that a gun shot was fired! Furthermore, if there are no guns being fired, nothing happens. That is much more privacy protecting than cameras / CCTV which is always on, captures everyone whether they are lawful or not, and can be used to target individuals. ACLU, I love you guys but you are wasting your energy on this.
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murdockscott
I wish there was a fair solution. I can see how this tech can be misused but I am so very tired of random gunfire in my neighborhood. Every time it happens, my family freezes in place hoping a stray bullet won’t hit one of us. We call the police fully understanding that it’s likely to do nothing. Reasonable gun regulation should be the starting point, but gun lobbies in America have convinced so many people that even the slightest change is unacceptable. It feels like tech COULD help if it was used fairly and with serious limitations but again, people will always find a way to use it in a corrupt way to bolster their own agendas. It is seriously disappointing.
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I wish there was a fair solution. I can see how this tech can be misused but I am so very tired of random gunfire in my neighborhood. Every time it happens, my family freezes in place hoping a stray bullet won’t hit one of us. We call the police fully understanding that it’s likely to do nothing. Reasonable gun regulation should be the starting point, but gun lobbies in America have convinced so many people that even the slightest change is unacceptable. It feels like tech COULD help if it was used fairly and with serious limitations but again, people will always find a way to use it in a corrupt way to bolster their own agendas. It is seriously disappointing.
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ardentvibe6917
Critics of this program want one simple thing; as slow as possible EMS/Police response times in black communities. The placement of these devices is indifferent to the color of the skin of the population, and solely based on where the most violent crime happens. To raise a racial stance on this topic is a form of racism, - as in doing so you are clearly inadvertently admitting that black people are more violent than white people, and that they don't deserve to have the police stop active shooters in their communities.
That, or maybe the people raising the racial issue are the ones committing these violent crimes.
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Critics of this program want one simple thing; as slow as possible EMS/Police response times in black communities. The placement of these devices is indifferent to the color of the skin of the population, and solely based on where the most violent crime happens. To raise a racial stance on this topic is a form of racism, - as in doing so you are clearly inadvertently admitting that black people are more violent than white people, and that they don't deserve to have the police stop active shooters in their communities.
That, or maybe the people raising the racial issue are the ones committing these violent crimes.
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benjaminphipps8325
If y’all are confused as to why this is a problem, it’s an easy way for cops to pretend they have probable cause. Any number of other noises could trigger these and once the cops show up to the indicated location, they’re going to violate all sorts of rights to investigate a gunshot that may have never happened. That’s why they’re in minority and impoverished neighborhoods. Those are the people that police tend to target. These sensors are a convenient excuse for increased policing, increased brutality, and a decrease in due process.
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If y’all are confused as to why this is a problem, it’s an easy way for cops to pretend they have probable cause. Any number of other noises could trigger these and once the cops show up to the indicated location, they’re going to violate all sorts of rights to investigate a gunshot that may have never happened. That’s why they’re in minority and impoverished neighborhoods. Those are the people that police tend to target. These sensors are a convenient excuse for increased policing, increased brutality, and a decrease in due process.
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wired
I salute groups like the NRA for making it possible to have human rights trampled by invasive surveillance, instead of anything to do with the sale or possession of guns being reviewed. No other nation in the world would hang microphones instead of controlling gun sales and ownership.
I'm also wondering for which cases these microphones actually are: for cases where shots are fired in urban areas, but nobody calls the police Is this a thing so regular that it warrants such a breach of privacy, and such an investment of money and time
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I salute groups like the NRA for making it possible to have human rights trampled by invasive surveillance, instead of anything to do with the sale or possession of guns being reviewed. No other nation in the world would hang microphones instead of controlling gun sales and ownership.
I'm also wondering for which cases these microphones actually are: for cases where shots are fired in urban areas, but nobody calls the police Is this a thing so regular that it warrants such a breach of privacy, and such an investment of money and time
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Jack-gl2xw
Why is this an issue Those areas that are minority also happen to be the highest density of crime. I would feel safer with those detectors near me, not oppressed And the issues is that when cops showed up they arrested someone who skipped court Seems like its working fine to me! They wouldve pulled that dude over eventually anyway and had the same outcome. I'd draw the line if the cops started using the sensor as probable cause to do truly unreasonable search and seizures. But this doesnt seem to be the case.
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Why is this an issue Those areas that are minority also happen to be the highest density of crime. I would feel safer with those detectors near me, not oppressed And the issues is that when cops showed up they arrested someone who skipped court Seems like its working fine to me! They wouldve pulled that dude over eventually anyway and had the same outcome. I'd draw the line if the cops started using the sensor as probable cause to do truly unreasonable search and seizures. But this doesnt seem to be the case.
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RIGeek.
This is one of those 'chicken or egg' paradoxes. What came first, the over-policing and microphones or the statistics of crime and shootings showed the need With the implementation of these systems you do have to accept that the statistics post-implementation would show an increase in those crimes due to the automatic reporting of the incidents. No longer relying on nearby people and/or a patrolling officer to put in a report. I think these systems should be in all cities, no matter the color or creed.
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This is one of those 'chicken or egg' paradoxes. What came first, the over-policing and microphones or the statistics of crime and shootings showed the need With the implementation of these systems you do have to accept that the statistics post-implementation would show an increase in those crimes due to the automatic reporting of the incidents. No longer relying on nearby people and/or a patrolling officer to put in a report. I think these systems should be in all cities, no matter the color or creed.
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primate3609
Oooohh cartel politicians don't want shot sensors on their crib, and they are using the legit privacy concerns of misinformed community members to rally againts them, what a surprise! Then you got greedy contractors paywalling maintenance and inflating cheap equipment, incompetent bureaucrats who know sht about anything taking advantage of the racism wave. if anything they can help low income people to stop killing each other
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Oooohh cartel politicians don't want shot sensors on their crib, and they are using the legit privacy concerns of misinformed community members to rally againts them, what a surprise! Then you got greedy contractors paywalling maintenance and inflating cheap equipment, incompetent bureaucrats who know sht about anything taking advantage of the racism wave. if anything they can help low income people to stop killing each other
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firebladeflow
6: 11 alright, so the System actually led to evidence being captured in 11% of alerts That's actually amazing and an absolutely fantastic number! Why would black communities not want Police to stop gun violence in their neighborhoods Who are these activists Even the example shown in the video was a person that broke the law and was captured by accident. For society this ia a win! Who would want criminals running free
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6: 11 alright, so the System actually led to evidence being captured in 11% of alerts That's actually amazing and an absolutely fantastic number! Why would black communities not want Police to stop gun violence in their neighborhoods Who are these activists Even the example shown in the video was a person that broke the law and was captured by accident. For society this ia a win! Who would want criminals running free
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jaxamilius5237
i do not understand why this is an issue you said in the beginning that police would hand all the data where shots were fired and the company goes and put up the devices. what is the problem if these areas happen to be with a lot of minorities then is that not a good thing i am also a person of colour and i would welcome this in my neighborhood! as long as all the devices are functioning properly ofcourse
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i do not understand why this is an issue you said in the beginning that police would hand all the data where shots were fired and the company goes and put up the devices. what is the problem if these areas happen to be with a lot of minorities then is that not a good thing i am also a person of colour and i would welcome this in my neighborhood! as long as all the devices are functioning properly ofcourse
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Chopwoodcarrywater
That was good reporting up until y'all played the race card. It's widely understood blacks are more violent that others. Therefore, it only makes sense to target black areas for gunshot detectors. Hey, a few innocent folks might caught up in the mix but that's the price for a free society. That's right. The rule of law is the most important ingredient of the prosperous world in which we live.
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That was good reporting up until y'all played the race card. It's widely understood blacks are more violent that others. Therefore, it only makes sense to target black areas for gunshot detectors. Hey, a few innocent folks might caught up in the mix but that's the price for a free society. That's right. The rule of law is the most important ingredient of the prosperous world in which we live.
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lloydlego6088
This is like arguing against beating children. We have mics that pick up the distressed cries of children. And people are arguing that a racial group that historically abuses children is being targeted, when they are just putting the mics where children are more likely to be harmed. Yeah we don’t want you to know when our criminals are shooting each other.
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This is like arguing against beating children. We have mics that pick up the distressed cries of children. And people are arguing that a racial group that historically abuses children is being targeted, when they are just putting the mics where children are more likely to be harmed. Yeah we don’t want you to know when our criminals are shooting each other.
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tyler2980
This piece would have been more interesting if they could have obtained and shared data on successful arrests/prosecutions. not on the poor Quality assurance processes. Did the tech provider tell the various municipalities they have OOS equipment that needed a tech to repair Or was it the providers fault somehow Lots more questions than answers.
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This piece would have been more interesting if they could have obtained and shared data on successful arrests/prosecutions. not on the poor Quality assurance processes. Did the tech provider tell the various municipalities they have OOS equipment that needed a tech to repair Or was it the providers fault somehow Lots more questions than answers.
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vibesmom
These are in my town and we voted for them. Everyone knows they don’t stop gun violence, but they do allow for a much faster response. Everyone is quite aware of where they are. It’s not so secret. The cops in my town aren’t screwing around with BS that doesn’t matter. There’s too much going on for them to pick up people at random.
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These are in my town and we voted for them. Everyone knows they don’t stop gun violence, but they do allow for a much faster response. Everyone is quite aware of where they are. It’s not so secret. The cops in my town aren’t screwing around with BS that doesn’t matter. There’s too much going on for them to pick up people at random.
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annehersey9895
I question the lack of these in Texas which has HUGE gun problems! Who decides where these go. I think they are a great idea if they get the police there faster and if they have a chance of making the streets safer for all children but especially children of color because sadly, their areas DO have more gun crime.
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I question the lack of these in Texas which has HUGE gun problems! Who decides where these go. I think they are a great idea if they get the police there faster and if they have a chance of making the streets safer for all children but especially children of color because sadly, their areas DO have more gun crime.
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rickyrobbie
Well the demographics dont lie. It seems as if the communities made up of majority minorities have more gun violence.
Shot spotter works, if someone fires a gun they typically dont stay in the area, chicago also has a police force thats been kneecapped by BJ. Might explain the low arrest rate associated with the SS
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Well the demographics dont lie. It seems as if the communities made up of majority minorities have more gun violence.
Shot spotter works, if someone fires a gun they typically dont stay in the area, chicago also has a police force thats been kneecapped by BJ. Might explain the low arrest rate associated with the SS
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certifieddominique
Wait, I know we as black people are not complaining that gun shots are being reported leading to criminals being caught. I have to be missing something. they're literally protecting you more than white people, but all you can think about is your brother/cousin/homeboy going to jail for their crimes. I love it
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Wait, I know we as black people are not complaining that gun shots are being reported leading to criminals being caught. I have to be missing something. they're literally protecting you more than white people, but all you can think about is your brother/cousin/homeboy going to jail for their crimes. I love it
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