LGR Oddware - CyberShades 3D Glasses
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Date: 2022-04-14
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Comments and reviews: 10
Mark
I'd say that the problem you had with Wolf, aside from it effectively strobing each eye at 35Hz-, is that they've got the 3D effect _backwards. _ Look at the 2D capture. things that are further away are rendered further apart, then they converge as you get closer. That's not how your eyes / real world perspective works. Try it out - step outside then alternately close one eye at a time and see how things appear to shift sideways. A pen held in front of your face will move a lot. a car a hundred yards away hardly at all. If you hold the pen in front of the car you can see it jump from one side to the other. So looking at how Wolf is rendered, your brain will be perceiving distant objects as actually being closer (or even jumping out of the screen) and getting very confused and having difficulty focussing on them. The lack of floor/ceiling texture won't help on that front.
(OK, maybe it's compensating for you being sat close enough to the monitor for there to be a little inherent separation, but if so, it's massively overdoing it; if I look at my own screen right now and wink my eyes it doesn't jump anywhere near as much as the most distantly drawn objects in the game, and it's a relatively small 12- widescreen at laptop viewing distance, both of which magnify the effect vs e. g. a 15- 4: 3 CRT at desktop viewing distance. So beyond a certain point where the depth perception converges to -infinity-, everything will still start to look -impossible- and give you a headache. really there should be a calibration/adjustment function where you can tweak the strength of the effect so that the most distant possible draw distance seems to be at infiinity - IE, the images converge perfectly if you do a blink test - and everything else is less separated or even separates the other way. In any case they're not taking full advantage of the range of simulated depth to bring things -out- of the monitor rather than everything going -into- it. at the very least they could have some separation on the status panel to bring it -in front- of the action)
- (honestly, did they not think to offer a boosted refresh for compatible monitors? Even 90 or 100Hz which were commonly supported by everyday SVGA multisyncs at low rez, so long as they could also do XGA non-interlaced (and thus SVGA at 75Hz. or about 85Hz in low rez for SVGA-at-60Hz (and VGA at 72Hz) models. or just 80ish for basic XGA-interlaced-plus-SVGA-at-56Hz (and VGA at 67Hz) models. Clearly you couldn't then run that game on a vanilla VGA monitor, but who in their right mind would be attempting that in combination with shutter glasses? Just pop up a warning window with OK / Cancel buttons in response to the hotkey, saying that you could damage the monitor if it wasn't compatible with a certain horizontal kHz + vertical Hz frequency pair, and you'd be good to go)
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I'd say that the problem you had with Wolf, aside from it effectively strobing each eye at 35Hz-, is that they've got the 3D effect _backwards. _ Look at the 2D capture. things that are further away are rendered further apart, then they converge as you get closer. That's not how your eyes / real world perspective works. Try it out - step outside then alternately close one eye at a time and see how things appear to shift sideways. A pen held in front of your face will move a lot. a car a hundred yards away hardly at all. If you hold the pen in front of the car you can see it jump from one side to the other. So looking at how Wolf is rendered, your brain will be perceiving distant objects as actually being closer (or even jumping out of the screen) and getting very confused and having difficulty focussing on them. The lack of floor/ceiling texture won't help on that front.
(OK, maybe it's compensating for you being sat close enough to the monitor for there to be a little inherent separation, but if so, it's massively overdoing it; if I look at my own screen right now and wink my eyes it doesn't jump anywhere near as much as the most distantly drawn objects in the game, and it's a relatively small 12- widescreen at laptop viewing distance, both of which magnify the effect vs e. g. a 15- 4: 3 CRT at desktop viewing distance. So beyond a certain point where the depth perception converges to -infinity-, everything will still start to look -impossible- and give you a headache. really there should be a calibration/adjustment function where you can tweak the strength of the effect so that the most distant possible draw distance seems to be at infiinity - IE, the images converge perfectly if you do a blink test - and everything else is less separated or even separates the other way. In any case they're not taking full advantage of the range of simulated depth to bring things -out- of the monitor rather than everything going -into- it. at the very least they could have some separation on the status panel to bring it -in front- of the action)
- (honestly, did they not think to offer a boosted refresh for compatible monitors? Even 90 or 100Hz which were commonly supported by everyday SVGA multisyncs at low rez, so long as they could also do XGA non-interlaced (and thus SVGA at 75Hz. or about 85Hz in low rez for SVGA-at-60Hz (and VGA at 72Hz) models. or just 80ish for basic XGA-interlaced-plus-SVGA-at-56Hz (and VGA at 67Hz) models. Clearly you couldn't then run that game on a vanilla VGA monitor, but who in their right mind would be attempting that in combination with shutter glasses? Just pop up a warning window with OK / Cancel buttons in response to the hotkey, saying that you could damage the monitor if it wasn't compatible with a certain horizontal kHz + vertical Hz frequency pair, and you'd be good to go)
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Erwin
Haha, I recall one of my friends buying a similar, a littlebit less crapier but more expensive one from I believe creative. That one came with a card onto which the videocard got connected. Back then it gave me a headache and ruined 3D for me for a long period of time. One of the first times I went to see a 3D movie in the cinema I was shocked to learn they used a similar principle. Yes, active (lcd) glasses. Synchronised by a infrared censor right above your nose. And halfway the movie, your battery could run flat to leave you with more headache from watching blurry and flickering scanlines on big screen. -
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Haha, I recall one of my friends buying a similar, a littlebit less crapier but more expensive one from I believe creative. That one came with a card onto which the videocard got connected. Back then it gave me a headache and ruined 3D for me for a long period of time. One of the first times I went to see a 3D movie in the cinema I was shocked to learn they used a similar principle. Yes, active (lcd) glasses. Synchronised by a infrared censor right above your nose. And halfway the movie, your battery could run flat to leave you with more headache from watching blurry and flickering scanlines on big screen. -
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Dusty
I know I'm 8 years too late, but your issue with the 3D is normal. Some people do not get much benefit from lots of convergence, and instead receive extreme double-imaging or even just eye strain. The solution is to decrease convergence to comfortable levels and instead increase ---separation--- until it is as high as you can tolerate. This should get the eye separation more properly tuned, then readjust convergence higher until you can find a good value, if it's the same as before, try adjusting separation again. I had to do this with my LCD 3D TV, and it actually helps.
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I know I'm 8 years too late, but your issue with the 3D is normal. Some people do not get much benefit from lots of convergence, and instead receive extreme double-imaging or even just eye strain. The solution is to decrease convergence to comfortable levels and instead increase ---separation--- until it is as high as you can tolerate. This should get the eye separation more properly tuned, then readjust convergence higher until you can find a good value, if it's the same as before, try adjusting separation again. I had to do this with my LCD 3D TV, and it actually helps.
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Kelly
I have done lots of playing with that type of active shutter screens and you can get a very good output if you are able to adjust the timing sync. You have to make sure that as one screen is drawn the one eye shutter is open and as second is drawn the other eye is open. with lots of tweaking it is really convincing. But it seems it has to be tweaked for each individual. Thanks for your videos I really enjoy your oddware! Nice work nice concept. for us geeky tech lovers. ha
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I have done lots of playing with that type of active shutter screens and you can get a very good output if you are able to adjust the timing sync. You have to make sure that as one screen is drawn the one eye shutter is open and as second is drawn the other eye is open. with lots of tweaking it is really convincing. But it seems it has to be tweaked for each individual. Thanks for your videos I really enjoy your oddware! Nice work nice concept. for us geeky tech lovers. ha
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That
Regarding the super dark effect with the glasses viewing an LCD. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because the light from an LCD is polarized? So it just gets mostly blocked by the glasses which are also polarized.
There is actually some guide out in the wild to make an old LCD monitors into a 'secret display' by cutting out the polarized layer on top and filtering the resultant apparently blank screent through polarized glasses or something.
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Regarding the super dark effect with the glasses viewing an LCD. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because the light from an LCD is polarized? So it just gets mostly blocked by the glasses which are also polarized.
There is actually some guide out in the wild to make an old LCD monitors into a 'secret display' by cutting out the polarized layer on top and filtering the resultant apparently blank screent through polarized glasses or something.
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DrumSmoker
Had a 3D television once in 2013. The glasses were simply two filters of polarized film, one vertically & one horizontally. Via settings on the TV you had to fine tune it to your distance. The effect with native 3D content was quite impressive, not so much with emulated ones (worked best with football matches.
But the problems are the same, eye strain and if others watching weren't at the same distance as you, they'd see crap.
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Had a 3D television once in 2013. The glasses were simply two filters of polarized film, one vertically & one horizontally. Via settings on the TV you had to fine tune it to your distance. The effect with native 3D content was quite impressive, not so much with emulated ones (worked best with football matches.
But the problems are the same, eye strain and if others watching weren't at the same distance as you, they'd see crap.
reply
Bruno
Hey, I would love if you review thee P5 glove, it's a crazy powerglove like peripheral for PC. The hardware itself was shit, but the software that came with it -glovepie- is fantastic to make macros, or to map any input device to do anything else ( for example type using mouse movement. It can be a bit difficult to find it in ebay today but I might still have one at my parents house, If I find it I will definitely send it to you: )
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Hey, I would love if you review thee P5 glove, it's a crazy powerglove like peripheral for PC. The hardware itself was shit, but the software that came with it -glovepie- is fantastic to make macros, or to map any input device to do anything else ( for example type using mouse movement. It can be a bit difficult to find it in ebay today but I might still have one at my parents house, If I find it I will definitely send it to you: )
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AllboroLCD
I had an ELSA S3 Savage4 card back in 99 that came with similar glasses, mine connected in line with the monitor though and did not need special support to work in games. I remember Half Life 1 and Thief 1 being pretty awesome with the glasses, they would create a higher depth perception, nothing popping out in your face or anything. It was like you could put your hand inside the monitor best way i could put it.
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I had an ELSA S3 Savage4 card back in 99 that came with similar glasses, mine connected in line with the monitor though and did not need special support to work in games. I remember Half Life 1 and Thief 1 being pretty awesome with the glasses, they would create a higher depth perception, nothing popping out in your face or anything. It was like you could put your hand inside the monitor best way i could put it.
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sUMsDos
I used to have a videocard from asus (tnt2ultra) more than 20 yrs ago, the package comes with a 3D glasses look exactly the same as this one. I gave the card to my friend back in early 2000 but still got the glasses with me. iirc the only game I had ever play with that -3D- glasses was need for speed: high stakes because the glasses only work with direct3d games (OpenGL/Glide not support)
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I used to have a videocard from asus (tnt2ultra) more than 20 yrs ago, the package comes with a 3D glasses look exactly the same as this one. I gave the card to my friend back in early 2000 but still got the glasses with me. iirc the only game I had ever play with that -3D- glasses was need for speed: high stakes because the glasses only work with direct3d games (OpenGL/Glide not support)
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SpaceSloth707
shit like this kinda makes me wish I lived in the 80's / 90's. Retro technology, and weird odd products that were kinda experimental and new. Mainly with technology. Of course also the invention of the internet. I'm from 2000. Lol, maybe I was born in the wrong time? Although experiencing all the new technological inventions of today are also interesting. So yeah.
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shit like this kinda makes me wish I lived in the 80's / 90's. Retro technology, and weird odd products that were kinda experimental and new. Mainly with technology. Of course also the invention of the internet. I'm from 2000. Lol, maybe I was born in the wrong time? Although experiencing all the new technological inventions of today are also interesting. So yeah.
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