Operation Frog & Class Dissection Legislation: An LGR Retrospective
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Date: 2022-04-14
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Comments and reviews: 10
the
I'm so surprised options like this were available since the 1980's. Real life dissection is still Extremely common in America when there are options way more advanced like this for free online. It's just plain more humane and frankly, cheaper. I was forced in 8th grade to dissect with no alternative but, was given one in my sophomore year of high school when it was brought up again (which i took. because letting kids cut up dead animals is cruel, creepy and unnecessary. I wish I knew about Jennifer Graham when I was 13 because I would have taken the failing grade and made a Huge Stink. (for reference point, I graduated HS in 2011)
Before anyone says anything: I'm perfectly fine with /medical students/ practicing dissection because when you're 18+ you have way more emotional maturity and /chose/ to go into a field where it's necessary to see insides. Most schools who do this sort of thing in the US mandate a biology course, and since I changed school districts, I was subjected to this twice. I'm also an organ donor who plans on donating my body to science so- I Get the practice. I just don't think it's ethical or responsible to let developing persons poke around in dead things and then get graded on how well you poked around.
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I'm so surprised options like this were available since the 1980's. Real life dissection is still Extremely common in America when there are options way more advanced like this for free online. It's just plain more humane and frankly, cheaper. I was forced in 8th grade to dissect with no alternative but, was given one in my sophomore year of high school when it was brought up again (which i took. because letting kids cut up dead animals is cruel, creepy and unnecessary. I wish I knew about Jennifer Graham when I was 13 because I would have taken the failing grade and made a Huge Stink. (for reference point, I graduated HS in 2011)
Before anyone says anything: I'm perfectly fine with /medical students/ practicing dissection because when you're 18+ you have way more emotional maturity and /chose/ to go into a field where it's necessary to see insides. Most schools who do this sort of thing in the US mandate a biology course, and since I changed school districts, I was subjected to this twice. I'm also an organ donor who plans on donating my body to science so- I Get the practice. I just don't think it's ethical or responsible to let developing persons poke around in dead things and then get graded on how well you poked around.
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John
I can't say that no frogs were harmed in the programming of this game. I dissected a couple of frogs to learn how to do it and present a realistic simulation. Operation: Frog was actually meant to prepare students for the actual dissection in class. It repaved mimeographed instruction sheets that were indecipherable and of limited usefulness. Using Operation: Frog was much more educational with the goal of making the real-life dissection a true scientific learning experience rather than a botched up mess and waste of a frog's life. In graduate school at Columbia I remember friends working in an eye research lab, which routinely experimented on rabbits, removing their eyes at the end of the experiment. So as not to waste the protein, the researchers often hosted rabbit stew dinners after the experiments were done. I found that a bit gruesome especially because the research was in support of the eye makeup industry!
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I can't say that no frogs were harmed in the programming of this game. I dissected a couple of frogs to learn how to do it and present a realistic simulation. Operation: Frog was actually meant to prepare students for the actual dissection in class. It repaved mimeographed instruction sheets that were indecipherable and of limited usefulness. Using Operation: Frog was much more educational with the goal of making the real-life dissection a true scientific learning experience rather than a botched up mess and waste of a frog's life. In graduate school at Columbia I remember friends working in an eye research lab, which routinely experimented on rabbits, removing their eyes at the end of the experiment. So as not to waste the protein, the researchers often hosted rabbit stew dinners after the experiments were done. I found that a bit gruesome especially because the research was in support of the eye makeup industry!
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RobRuckus65
in my school never dissected a frog we dissected an earth worm then in ap bio I talked the teacher into letting us dissect fetal pigs with my knowledge of anatomy the teacher actually had me lead the dissection. the valedictorian of my class and salutatorian were sooo pissed because I slept everyday in ap bio and ate snacks adn shit and never got in trouble since I had the highest gradeand they all failed the college credit test at the end of the year hell everyone in the class did. except me I was actually one of the highest scores the school ever saw on that test good times. not bad for sleeping everyday in class and never doing normal homework or studying ever. but we werent supposed to dissect the pigs that year which made me sad since that was half the reason why I took ap bio so I was rather ecstatic when i got the teacher to order 4 fetal pigs just so we could dissect them.
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in my school never dissected a frog we dissected an earth worm then in ap bio I talked the teacher into letting us dissect fetal pigs with my knowledge of anatomy the teacher actually had me lead the dissection. the valedictorian of my class and salutatorian were sooo pissed because I slept everyday in ap bio and ate snacks adn shit and never got in trouble since I had the highest gradeand they all failed the college credit test at the end of the year hell everyone in the class did. except me I was actually one of the highest scores the school ever saw on that test good times. not bad for sleeping everyday in class and never doing normal homework or studying ever. but we werent supposed to dissect the pigs that year which made me sad since that was half the reason why I took ap bio so I was rather ecstatic when i got the teacher to order 4 fetal pigs just so we could dissect them.
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TeamShoelace
Always wished I could've dissected a frog in school. Got to dissect a sheep-eye once in high school, but it really wasn't as interesting as seeing all of the internal organs in something and seeing how it works. I've got to that more so with hunting and fishing, but that feels a lot more like work versus education, and you don't really have time to study things lol.
Also, seeing frog rights made me almost spit out of my drink. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Always wished I could've dissected a frog in school. Got to dissect a sheep-eye once in high school, but it really wasn't as interesting as seeing all of the internal organs in something and seeing how it works. I've got to that more so with hunting and fishing, but that feels a lot more like work versus education, and you don't really have time to study things lol.
Also, seeing frog rights made me almost spit out of my drink. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Spooky
we were supposed to be disecting pigs and it turned out that my lab partner was super allergic to fromaldehyde so she had to go home early then i ditched the next day emailing my teacher i caught the stomach flu (which was going around at the time) since my partner was going to still be absent until monday. so when we both get back monday my teacher is like nah dw about it i dont want to just sit around and watch sick kids catch up on work. thank god tbh
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we were supposed to be disecting pigs and it turned out that my lab partner was super allergic to fromaldehyde so she had to go home early then i ditched the next day emailing my teacher i caught the stomach flu (which was going around at the time) since my partner was going to still be absent until monday. so when we both get back monday my teacher is like nah dw about it i dont want to just sit around and watch sick kids catch up on work. thank god tbh
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Marion
I never had to disect a frog (I did some '90's version of this game instead, but I did have to disect an earthworm, starfish, and squid in 9th grade biology.
When I had my co-op job in college, I had to clean up after Anatomy students disections including frogs, pigs, and cats. None of it bothered me. and I love cats. I realize that these animals are bred in labs for this specific reason. I found it fascinating.
Better than dissecting humans.
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I never had to disect a frog (I did some '90's version of this game instead, but I did have to disect an earthworm, starfish, and squid in 9th grade biology.
When I had my co-op job in college, I had to clean up after Anatomy students disections including frogs, pigs, and cats. None of it bothered me. and I love cats. I realize that these animals are bred in labs for this specific reason. I found it fascinating.
Better than dissecting humans.
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Patrick
Wow Clint! The school I attended didn't even dissect worms in class! I didn't know you were fascinated by physiology and ask that sort of stuff. You were lucky as schools in America are a lot better than here in Ireland. But don't be surprised, Ireland is a very poor country. Besides the point, it's a pity you didn't pursue a career in physiology as it seems to me it was your first love as it were and there are lots of careers in physiology.
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Wow Clint! The school I attended didn't even dissect worms in class! I didn't know you were fascinated by physiology and ask that sort of stuff. You were lucky as schools in America are a lot better than here in Ireland. But don't be surprised, Ireland is a very poor country. Besides the point, it's a pity you didn't pursue a career in physiology as it seems to me it was your first love as it were and there are lots of careers in physiology.
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pentelegomenon
I don't know about the argument that virtual animal dissection is an ethical alternative to the real thing. I doubt anyone would support the flip side of that argument, that in a time or place where virtual animal dissection was not an option, then dissecting animals would suddenly become ethical again because animal dissection is supposedly such an amazing educational tool that it would be a crime to withhold it from anyone.
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I don't know about the argument that virtual animal dissection is an ethical alternative to the real thing. I doubt anyone would support the flip side of that argument, that in a time or place where virtual animal dissection was not an option, then dissecting animals would suddenly become ethical again because animal dissection is supposedly such an amazing educational tool that it would be a crime to withhold it from anyone.
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LunaBit
I had a similar 'game', except it was at school and it was required. We went to a website instead though. Like the programmer of Operation Frog said his game was, this website was to prepare students for actual dissection.
It was 3D and a bit more realistic looking. Very good for the mid to late 90's. Though it freaked me out and we had to do that in elementary school. Years and years before the actual process.
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I had a similar 'game', except it was at school and it was required. We went to a website instead though. Like the programmer of Operation Frog said his game was, this website was to prepare students for actual dissection.
It was 3D and a bit more realistic looking. Very good for the mid to late 90's. Though it freaked me out and we had to do that in elementary school. Years and years before the actual process.
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Pajama
I have dissected a sheep's eye, a frog, a shark, a pig, a cat, and multiple humans.
To a degree, I understand why people are against animal dissections because we breed them to be cut open. But then we do the same thing for our meat, so why are these advocates not also vegetarians?
Either way, one nice thing about human dissection is that these people have willingly donated their bodies to us.
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I have dissected a sheep's eye, a frog, a shark, a pig, a cat, and multiple humans.
To a degree, I understand why people are against animal dissections because we breed them to be cut open. But then we do the same thing for our meat, so why are these advocates not also vegetarians?
Either way, one nice thing about human dissection is that these people have willingly donated their bodies to us.
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