We Now Know How Old Man Cap Got Back To The Main Timeline
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Its obvious that the filmmakers are correct about the film. But consider the foolishness of refusing to accept this simple and clear premise. If you can go back to the past of your own timeline - then it follows that anyone who then travels to the future - would also be in the future of that timeline. since there is nothing preventing you from traveling to the future to begin with. Fine. In that case why not go back to the past. and then grab anyone in history and bring them forward to the future. For example Steve Rogers could easily go back to 1945 get Peggy Carter - from the main timeline - and then come back thru the Quantum bridge with her to 2023. Why not? For that matter - why not get Tony Stark and Bucky and Natasha and Abraham Lincoln and make them all alive and young and whole again? If it is possible to travel to the past in your own timeline - then it must be possible to travel back to the future in the same timeline. Therefore any dead person from the past - can be brought back to the future. This makes a complete nonsense of any story that you would ever attempt to tell. The Russos have figured this out -> those who disagree are just being LAZY FILM WATCHERS. They are clearly not thinking about the logical consequences of what they are saying.
Date: 2020-07-14
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Comments and reviews: 9
Joshua
There is an alternative theory in time travel fiction that would render both answers mostly correct.
I'm not very quantum mathematics savvy, so don't know the mechanics of it, but basically, by traveling to the past and committing to remaining in an earlier part of the timeline and living out the course of history, the progression of events are flexible, and can bend to accept small alterations. Thus, because young Cap was on ice, and Old Man Cap only crossed paths with very specific individuals who kept his secret, his timeline continuity remained free of obvious paradoxes, so it remained the main continuity, until the exact moment when his past/future self went back to return the stones, at which point his continuity became utterly secure. This is also likely why he didn't want to talk about his life with Peggy, as this would have run the risk of causing a perceptive paradox for those that already experienced the course of history as they already understood it.
In this way, the timeline he was in was separate in that he could not appear to his friends and be recognized until after he'd already left.
In other words, all the times post Endgame fans speculated if the guy holding up Peggy's casket was Old Man Steve, or if he was a veteran at the party at the beginning of Age Of Ultron, they were right to speculate, because time altered people perceptions so as to prevent a paradox but accept his presence.
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There is an alternative theory in time travel fiction that would render both answers mostly correct.
I'm not very quantum mathematics savvy, so don't know the mechanics of it, but basically, by traveling to the past and committing to remaining in an earlier part of the timeline and living out the course of history, the progression of events are flexible, and can bend to accept small alterations. Thus, because young Cap was on ice, and Old Man Cap only crossed paths with very specific individuals who kept his secret, his timeline continuity remained free of obvious paradoxes, so it remained the main continuity, until the exact moment when his past/future self went back to return the stones, at which point his continuity became utterly secure. This is also likely why he didn't want to talk about his life with Peggy, as this would have run the risk of causing a perceptive paradox for those that already experienced the course of history as they already understood it.
In this way, the timeline he was in was separate in that he could not appear to his friends and be recognized until after he'd already left.
In other words, all the times post Endgame fans speculated if the guy holding up Peggy's casket was Old Man Steve, or if he was a veteran at the party at the beginning of Age Of Ultron, they were right to speculate, because time altered people perceptions so as to prevent a paradox but accept his presence.
reply
Summer
Steve time travels in 1945. Before he travels back in time there is 1 Steve. After he travels back in time there are 2. Steve traveling back in time changes the past. He does not have the option to do nothing and not change the past. That notion is completely asinine. You might as well claim that you can take a stone from the past, as long as you dont use it. When you take a stone, there are now only 5 stones in the past where they were 6. That changes the past. Adding 2 Steves where there was 1 is identical in logic. You would be trying to change the past.
The film literally tells us then shows us that you cant change the past you can only create a new future. So Cap cannot inject a 2nd copy of himself into the past. Period. Nor can time loops save this broken notion. You can use a time loop to claim that you are Bill Shakespeare and go back in time and write Hamlet. [bootstrap paradox] But - there had better be only 1 Shakespeare and that better be you! If there are now two of you - then even that explanation falls apart, since the 2nd you is a change made to the past by traveling back in time.
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Steve time travels in 1945. Before he travels back in time there is 1 Steve. After he travels back in time there are 2. Steve traveling back in time changes the past. He does not have the option to do nothing and not change the past. That notion is completely asinine. You might as well claim that you can take a stone from the past, as long as you dont use it. When you take a stone, there are now only 5 stones in the past where they were 6. That changes the past. Adding 2 Steves where there was 1 is identical in logic. You would be trying to change the past.
The film literally tells us then shows us that you cant change the past you can only create a new future. So Cap cannot inject a 2nd copy of himself into the past. Period. Nor can time loops save this broken notion. You can use a time loop to claim that you are Bill Shakespeare and go back in time and write Hamlet. [bootstrap paradox] But - there had better be only 1 Shakespeare and that better be you! If there are now two of you - then even that explanation falls apart, since the 2nd you is a change made to the past by traveling back in time.
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Summer
Time loop theories all fail
-> if all of time is a loop then there can still be only one of everyone originating in that time line. [one per loop]
-> if only Cap is in a loop then all events between 1945 and 2023 must happen before Cap loops back.
-> so there still would have been only 1 Cap between 1945 and 2023 [before he steps into time machine]
-> and all the events between 1945 and 2023 that happen before he can loop are needed to happen in order for him to loop.
-> Cap must be defrosted, join avengers, avengers break up, Peggy dies. now Thanos attacks and time machine invented. [but Peggy is already dead, her children were already born], before the time machine was invented, and these things that have already happened are needed to happen - in order for - the time machine to be invented.
Thats why the writers when asked to explain their view, say that they dont understand time travel and are just wishing for some sort of bullshix time loop.
Well, if thats the best they can do, then they and their followers are so debunked. Next.
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Time loop theories all fail
-> if all of time is a loop then there can still be only one of everyone originating in that time line. [one per loop]
-> if only Cap is in a loop then all events between 1945 and 2023 must happen before Cap loops back.
-> so there still would have been only 1 Cap between 1945 and 2023 [before he steps into time machine]
-> and all the events between 1945 and 2023 that happen before he can loop are needed to happen in order for him to loop.
-> Cap must be defrosted, join avengers, avengers break up, Peggy dies. now Thanos attacks and time machine invented. [but Peggy is already dead, her children were already born], before the time machine was invented, and these things that have already happened are needed to happen - in order for - the time machine to be invented.
Thats why the writers when asked to explain their view, say that they dont understand time travel and are just wishing for some sort of bullshix time loop.
Well, if thats the best they can do, then they and their followers are so debunked. Next.
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Manda
Why does everyone forget the conversation with Bruce about time travel? I always took the Ancient Ones explanation about the infinity stones to be bad realities that will be created. Because if removing a stone and returning resets that reality, then what happened to Loki in the 2012 timeline? Or Gamora from the 2014 one? Heck you can go so far to say that if Cap returns the stones to 2014 and it resets the timeline, Thanos never came to 2023 and Stark would be alive. The writers explanations keep making it more complicated. What the directors say about Cap makes the most sense to the time travel theory presented in the film. Really hope they clear this up in the Disney Plus series.
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Why does everyone forget the conversation with Bruce about time travel? I always took the Ancient Ones explanation about the infinity stones to be bad realities that will be created. Because if removing a stone and returning resets that reality, then what happened to Loki in the 2012 timeline? Or Gamora from the 2014 one? Heck you can go so far to say that if Cap returns the stones to 2014 and it resets the timeline, Thanos never came to 2023 and Stark would be alive. The writers explanations keep making it more complicated. What the directors say about Cap makes the most sense to the time travel theory presented in the film. Really hope they clear this up in the Disney Plus series.
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kelly
The rejecting the other reality theory doesnt make sence, the time he goes back to return the infinity stone and then live with peggy would have continued normally if thanos was alive, but thanos travelled to the future meaning in that timeline he is no longer there leading to whole new events and a diffrent timeline eventho the stones were returned. Cap then waiting for the date he left would have the others not there for in that timeline there was no thsnos to fight. The only way he could retun to the ones he left behing after tonys funeral is to use the suit one last time after he lived his life with peggy.
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The rejecting the other reality theory doesnt make sence, the time he goes back to return the infinity stone and then live with peggy would have continued normally if thanos was alive, but thanos travelled to the future meaning in that timeline he is no longer there leading to whole new events and a diffrent timeline eventho the stones were returned. Cap then waiting for the date he left would have the others not there for in that timeline there was no thsnos to fight. The only way he could retun to the ones he left behing after tonys funeral is to use the suit one last time after he lived his life with peggy.
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Fotis
Steven Rogers born July 4 1918.
Enlisted in the army when he was 24 years old.
It freezes at 25 for 70 years.
He woke up in 2013 (95 years old.
Another 10 years until ENDGAME, 105 years old.
He went back to 1950 and lived the life he wanted until 2023.
Another 73 years. Total: 178 years old.
And even if we subtract the 70 years that were on the ice,
the year 2023 is 108 years old.
And they held up well.
In a interview of Peggy Carter in 'Winter Soldier'
means that Peggy's niece was not related to Captain America, about the kiss.
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Steven Rogers born July 4 1918.
Enlisted in the army when he was 24 years old.
It freezes at 25 for 70 years.
He woke up in 2013 (95 years old.
Another 10 years until ENDGAME, 105 years old.
He went back to 1950 and lived the life he wanted until 2023.
Another 73 years. Total: 178 years old.
And even if we subtract the 70 years that were on the ice,
the year 2023 is 108 years old.
And they held up well.
In a interview of Peggy Carter in 'Winter Soldier'
means that Peggy's niece was not related to Captain America, about the kiss.
reply
Fotis
That was a difficult winter. A blizzard had trapped half our
battalion behind the German line.
Steve, Captain Rogers,
he fought his way through a HYDRA blockade that had
pinned our allies down for months.
He saved over 1, 000 men. Including the man who would.
Who would become my husband, as it turned out.
Even after he died, Steve was still changing my life.
Interview with Peggy Carter in 'Winter Soldier'.
Which means that Peggy's niece was not related to Captain America, about the kiss.
reply
That was a difficult winter. A blizzard had trapped half our
battalion behind the German line.
Steve, Captain Rogers,
he fought his way through a HYDRA blockade that had
pinned our allies down for months.
He saved over 1, 000 men. Including the man who would.
Who would become my husband, as it turned out.
Even after he died, Steve was still changing my life.
Interview with Peggy Carter in 'Winter Soldier'.
Which means that Peggy's niece was not related to Captain America, about the kiss.
reply
Summer
Things Avengers must do to fully reconverge the timelines.
-> put back the stones.
-> put back the scepter [which is shrunken? And with Cap? ]
-> Re Capture Loki
-> put back the terreract that Loki stole
Things Avengers cannot do in the main timelines past = anything.
They cant
-> kill baby Thanos.
-> make Tony come back to life
-> make Natasha come back to life
-> marry Peggy Carter (sorry)
-> father kids with Peggy Carter
+++++++++++++++
Hope this helps.
reply
Things Avengers must do to fully reconverge the timelines.
-> put back the stones.
-> put back the scepter [which is shrunken? And with Cap? ]
-> Re Capture Loki
-> put back the terreract that Loki stole
Things Avengers cannot do in the main timelines past = anything.
They cant
-> kill baby Thanos.
-> make Tony come back to life
-> make Natasha come back to life
-> marry Peggy Carter (sorry)
-> father kids with Peggy Carter
+++++++++++++++
Hope this helps.
reply
Jersey
This Old Man Cap can be turned back into the regular Cap and come back to the Avengers easily. If you recall the gang getting Professor Hulk to work on Time Travel before Tony came aboard, he accidentally sent Time through Scott Lang instead of sending Scott Lang through Time. So that could be used on any aging Avenger/Hero. They can hook Old Man Cap up to the doohickey, pass Time through him, and bring him back to his prime in the future if Chris Evans signs back on.
reply
This Old Man Cap can be turned back into the regular Cap and come back to the Avengers easily. If you recall the gang getting Professor Hulk to work on Time Travel before Tony came aboard, he accidentally sent Time through Scott Lang instead of sending Scott Lang through Time. So that could be used on any aging Avenger/Hero. They can hook Old Man Cap up to the doohickey, pass Time through him, and bring him back to his prime in the future if Chris Evans signs back on.
reply
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