Robot Art Teachers (There Goes My Job) - Draftsmen S1E12 - Proko
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Date: 2022-03-14
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Comments and reviews: 10
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I have read about 10 different neurobehavioral research papers and one of them (I can't remember exactly the artie, its not super necessary to read because the conclusion was that the compositional techniques master artists know are legit) talked about what Marshall brought up. They had about 16 participants who were of Japanese ethnicity (in a study taking place in America so most likely immigrants or Asian Americans) and they concluded the same thing Marshall said.
Do you see the problem? 16 participants, unknown specific background (what areas of Japan they came from, what is their economic and social status, and -scientists- conclude that they see pictures differently. That is really bad research.
Anyway I would be suuuuper skeptic of any -science- about how different ethnicities view the world. (I am sure there is good research about ethinicities out there but most of the stuff I've found are biased or racist.
Also I just took an art class in Japan and I told the professor that possibly my art doesn't look correct because I am American and I studied art differently so he asked me to draw some -American art- and I did and he said he saw nothing different from Japanese art (the class was about anatomy studies. That's just an anecdote but yeah.
Also, about AI. There's an AI that creates a predicted average if where the eye will move when viewing a picture which looks absolutely amazing and I hope in the future becomes cheaper because I've been doing that manually with my own eye(I draw comics btw.
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I have read about 10 different neurobehavioral research papers and one of them (I can't remember exactly the artie, its not super necessary to read because the conclusion was that the compositional techniques master artists know are legit) talked about what Marshall brought up. They had about 16 participants who were of Japanese ethnicity (in a study taking place in America so most likely immigrants or Asian Americans) and they concluded the same thing Marshall said.
Do you see the problem? 16 participants, unknown specific background (what areas of Japan they came from, what is their economic and social status, and -scientists- conclude that they see pictures differently. That is really bad research.
Anyway I would be suuuuper skeptic of any -science- about how different ethnicities view the world. (I am sure there is good research about ethinicities out there but most of the stuff I've found are biased or racist.
Also I just took an art class in Japan and I told the professor that possibly my art doesn't look correct because I am American and I studied art differently so he asked me to draw some -American art- and I did and he said he saw nothing different from Japanese art (the class was about anatomy studies. That's just an anecdote but yeah.
Also, about AI. There's an AI that creates a predicted average if where the eye will move when viewing a picture which looks absolutely amazing and I hope in the future becomes cheaper because I've been doing that manually with my own eye(I draw comics btw.
reply
Michel
I come from an I. T college though I'm an amateur artist myself. A. I. will always work with data, but artistry is way more than bits and bytes, than pixels and vectors. There are always these limitations around computers in such a way that machines will never be as good as an unimaginable complex human being doing all kinds of random art and new styles in the real world, the analogical world, not only in the binary realm. As a programmer, I believe that programs should always act like a tool that extends our skills and powers, specially in routine activities. You could think that technology is hammer, or a fork, or a scythe. It's good and useful as long as you don't use the hammer to smash someone's head.
Take note that when people create programs that mimic the human being, what these people want is to rule over humanity by controlling aspects of humanity that they want to. Ford tried to transform people into robots at the factories. A. I. is like a dream for people like him. Art may involve technical and sequential stages, just like a Ford's classic factory, but we all know that it's way more than that.
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I come from an I. T college though I'm an amateur artist myself. A. I. will always work with data, but artistry is way more than bits and bytes, than pixels and vectors. There are always these limitations around computers in such a way that machines will never be as good as an unimaginable complex human being doing all kinds of random art and new styles in the real world, the analogical world, not only in the binary realm. As a programmer, I believe that programs should always act like a tool that extends our skills and powers, specially in routine activities. You could think that technology is hammer, or a fork, or a scythe. It's good and useful as long as you don't use the hammer to smash someone's head.
Take note that when people create programs that mimic the human being, what these people want is to rule over humanity by controlling aspects of humanity that they want to. Ford tried to transform people into robots at the factories. A. I. is like a dream for people like him. Art may involve technical and sequential stages, just like a Ford's classic factory, but we all know that it's way more than that.
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Ashanti
Why does it seem like everyone wants to use technology and automation to take jobs away from human beings? Not everything that can be done should be done just because we can. If someone lives somewhere that makes it hard to get an art critique, why not work on a way to provide that critique by a human being instead of by replacing human beings with an AI? We live in an era where every business wants to automate and could not care less on the ramifications of putting a generation of people out of work. Now Stan wants to contribute to the gig economy by even taking away a job that requires a form of subjective reasoning that computers can't currently do. How easy for Stan, the business owner who isn't in danger of being unemployed, to tell the human teacher to learn do something else. I wonder how often that advice has worked throughout the history of human beings who have lost their jobs through technology and automation over the decades?
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Why does it seem like everyone wants to use technology and automation to take jobs away from human beings? Not everything that can be done should be done just because we can. If someone lives somewhere that makes it hard to get an art critique, why not work on a way to provide that critique by a human being instead of by replacing human beings with an AI? We live in an era where every business wants to automate and could not care less on the ramifications of putting a generation of people out of work. Now Stan wants to contribute to the gig economy by even taking away a job that requires a form of subjective reasoning that computers can't currently do. How easy for Stan, the business owner who isn't in danger of being unemployed, to tell the human teacher to learn do something else. I wonder how often that advice has worked throughout the history of human beings who have lost their jobs through technology and automation over the decades?
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John
AI and VR are both famous for always appearing closer than they really are. Uncanny valley and all that. The problem with VR is it has to cocoon the user in technology, divorcing him/her from others and reality. In some it causes nausea or vertigo. AR is a better option IMO, because it allows interpersonal communication and that connection to reality, but is more technologically demanding as it integrates both worlds.
AI made a leap forward with neural networks, and it's an open question whether or not it will allow them to cross the uncanny valley and grok human experience; in limited ways they already have. I wonder if an AI capable of understanding and correcting art won't be close enough to BE an artist in its own right, (at least as far as corporate production/mass consumption is concerned? Why not have it train AI artists in mere days? AHORO (All Hail Our Robot Overlords)
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AI and VR are both famous for always appearing closer than they really are. Uncanny valley and all that. The problem with VR is it has to cocoon the user in technology, divorcing him/her from others and reality. In some it causes nausea or vertigo. AR is a better option IMO, because it allows interpersonal communication and that connection to reality, but is more technologically demanding as it integrates both worlds.
AI made a leap forward with neural networks, and it's an open question whether or not it will allow them to cross the uncanny valley and grok human experience; in limited ways they already have. I wonder if an AI capable of understanding and correcting art won't be close enough to BE an artist in its own right, (at least as far as corporate production/mass consumption is concerned? Why not have it train AI artists in mere days? AHORO (All Hail Our Robot Overlords)
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cleverestdevil
P. S. I don't hope A. I. will solve any art problems I might have. I think that traditional methods have worked perfectly for anyone thus far. The curriculum exists. The only thing that A. I. could provide is some kind of synthetic mentorship. I don't know if that would include assessing the direction of the artist based on samples, or what. But things like the Bargue plates - only a mentor might direct you that way. Conversely, maybe you might need to digest everything Will Eisner had to say about art and narrative. Again, only a mentor might read between the lines. Can A. I. know who you want to be as an artist before you do?
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P. S. I don't hope A. I. will solve any art problems I might have. I think that traditional methods have worked perfectly for anyone thus far. The curriculum exists. The only thing that A. I. could provide is some kind of synthetic mentorship. I don't know if that would include assessing the direction of the artist based on samples, or what. But things like the Bargue plates - only a mentor might direct you that way. Conversely, maybe you might need to digest everything Will Eisner had to say about art and narrative. Again, only a mentor might read between the lines. Can A. I. know who you want to be as an artist before you do?
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La
Good to know the future of art. Call me old school, But I will not fully agree to AI concept. The human touch and feeling will be missing and the gesture of art will be ruined. It's fine for basic learning and rules one should obey. Only teachers will understand and may show you the loophole to break the rule-out of his own experience. Well still i am open to know and learn AI way too.
BTW India has many great artist and many Art schools too. It's the -developing country- struggle that make us choose main stream studies ( we might earn more in a full day job then in a commission art)
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Good to know the future of art. Call me old school, But I will not fully agree to AI concept. The human touch and feeling will be missing and the gesture of art will be ruined. It's fine for basic learning and rules one should obey. Only teachers will understand and may show you the loophole to break the rule-out of his own experience. Well still i am open to know and learn AI way too.
BTW India has many great artist and many Art schools too. It's the -developing country- struggle that make us choose main stream studies ( we might earn more in a full day job then in a commission art)
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Metin
If a computer would constantly produce good art, it would devalue the good. In human's case, it's the possibility of creating a bad work that makes good art valuable. The good artwork made by an imperfect mechanism (in this case human) is what defines its value in my opinion. That's why impressionist works are more interesting than photo filters. Or a sculpture vs a 3d printed sculpture. We like imperfections more than the credit we give to it. Because it's these limitations that guide us to discover something unexpected.
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If a computer would constantly produce good art, it would devalue the good. In human's case, it's the possibility of creating a bad work that makes good art valuable. The good artwork made by an imperfect mechanism (in this case human) is what defines its value in my opinion. That's why impressionist works are more interesting than photo filters. Or a sculpture vs a 3d printed sculpture. We like imperfections more than the credit we give to it. Because it's these limitations that guide us to discover something unexpected.
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Sleipnir
I think that you kinda miss the point about the ability of the human brain to bypass algorithms by flexing its style into what AI expects of you. So your work will be good by machine standards but bad in other ways. On the other hand, it's the exact point of AI apps to shape some stereotypes in your brain as a starting point so you can develop your art.
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I think that you kinda miss the point about the ability of the human brain to bypass algorithms by flexing its style into what AI expects of you. So your work will be good by machine standards but bad in other ways. On the other hand, it's the exact point of AI apps to shape some stereotypes in your brain as a starting point so you can develop your art.
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Larry
I tire of hearing artists talk about left brain this and right brain that. There is no biological basis for this, particularly when applied to anything beyond the most basic pencil movements. Your right eye connects to your left brain in order to control your right hand for goodness sake.
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I tire of hearing artists talk about left brain this and right brain that. There is no biological basis for this, particularly when applied to anything beyond the most basic pencil movements. Your right eye connects to your left brain in order to control your right hand for goodness sake.
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AkashB
The challenge will be once algorithms start generating their own art - and how/will it benefit the full time artists? Actually, there already are some open-source projects in Github I think which are experimenting on generating artworks.
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The challenge will be once algorithms start generating their own art - and how/will it benefit the full time artists? Actually, there already are some open-source projects in Github I think which are experimenting on generating artworks.
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